California State Universities

College Search & Selection
21

<p>news release from SDSU....here are the facts regarding current SDSU selectivity</p>

<p>Marketing & Communications</p>

<p>Division of University Advancement</p>

<pre><code> News Release
</code></pre>

<p>More than 52,000 Undergraduate Students Apply
To San Diego State for Fall 2006
Preliminary Total A New Record and 6.4 Percent Increase From Last Year </p>

<p>Contact: Jason Foster
SDSU Marketing & Communications
Tel: (619) 594-2585/ Cell: (619) 992-0772
<a href="mailto:foster@mail.sdsu.edu">foster@mail.sdsu.edu</a></p>

<p>SAN DIEGO – (Friday, Dec. 2, 2005) – Student interest in attending San Diego State University continues to soar, with the number of online undergraduate applications for fall 2006 up 6.4 percent from last year’s record total, the university announced today. </p>

<p>Preliminary counts show 52,311 students filed online applications to attend SDSU during the fall 2006 open enrollment period that began Oct. 1 and closed on Wednesday. Approximately 15 percent of those applications were from local students in SDSU’s service area.</p>

<p>The fall 2006 figures continue the trend of significant year-to-year increases in applications to SDSU since the university adopted enrollment management practices in 1998. Applications to SDSU have risen 69.4 percent over the last seven years. </p>

<p>“We’re delighted to see the growing interest in attending SDSU,” said Provost Nancy Marlin. “This is a strong evidence that more and more prospective students are becoming aware of the excellent opportunities we provide students through our strong programs and talented faculty.”</p>

<p>Most students selected for admission will be notified around the beginning of March. University officials expect all CSU-qualified applicants from SDSU’s service area will be admitted. Overall, the university estimates it will have slightly more than 8,000 new undergraduate enrollment slots available next fall. SDSU enrolled 7,739 new undergraduates (4,069 first-time freshmen and 3,670 upper-division transfers) in fall 2005.</p>

<p>The number of undergraduate online applications for fall 2006 rose 5 percent across the 23-campus California State University system.</p>

<p>SDSU is the oldest and largest institution of higher education in the San Diego region. Founded in 1897, SDSU offers bachelor’s degrees in 81 areas, master’s degrees in 72 and doctorates in 16. SDSU’s nearly 33,000 students participate in academic curricula distinguished by direct faculty contact and an increasingly international emphasis that prepares them for a global future. For more information, visit <a href="http://www.sdsu.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.sdsu.edu&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

22

<p>yes, exactly...i did eventually say i could believe the number of applicants (and in fact, i never said it was impossible, just that i doubted it). </p>

<p>what you said before is already in vast contrast to that article you posted, and the distinction between the stats paints an entirely different picture:

[quote]
SDSU enrolled 7,739 new undergraduates

[/quote]
</p>

<p>accepted students =/= enrolled, and the number of students enrolled says little about how competitive/"prestigious" the school is. and even considering the actual admitted statistic, ~50% isn't "insanely easy" at all, but by no means hard.</p>

23

<p>note that the article states that 100% of SD County residents are accepted with the bare minimum Cal State qualifications.</p>

24

<p>So the averages of 3.5 and 1100 are very decieving you take away from the local SD students. </p>

<p>It's actually 40 percent, which for a Cal State, or atleast the percieved perception of them, is pretty damn competitive. Furthermore, if you take out that 15% that is automatically admitted, for the rest of California and Out of state students the acceptance rate probably decreases to the vicinity of 34 percent.</p>

<p>But in contrast if you compare most recent rates to past rates, even 6 years ago, you will notice a sharp incline in the admittance competition. If you're now entering college if these rates continue to improve, SDSU will start gaining the "competitive" recognition of a few UC's within the next 4-5 years. As the UC's have started to stagnate like that of the Ivy Leagues in terms of increasing admittance difficulty "statistics". </p>

<p>PS how's USC treating you?</p>

25

<p>its almost like you took the same sentence and wrote it 7 different ways to make a paragraph...</p>

26

<p>


</p>

<p>and USC is treating me fine. my classes are taught by great professors (some far too smart for their own good), and i'm having a blast. i couldnt ask for more.</p>

27

<p>I'd pick USC before UCLA... always.</p>

28

<p>Since I have been on the faculty in both the UC and CSU systems and have taught part time at USC perhaps it's time to answer the original posters questions directly, albeit discursively since it is such a broad question:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>There is prestige associated with almost every UC and CSU, particulary when one examines individual academic programs. For example, almost every UC is distinguished across the board in the humanities and social sciences, and most are also outstanding in natural sciences as well. Some, such as the top three UC campuses are world class and typically are among the top publics anywhere.</p></li>
<li><p>There is absolutely no doubt that the majority of CSU campuses, while not elite across the board, have pockets of distinction. Some examples:</p></li>
</ol>

<p>BUSINESS: San Diego, San Jose, Long Beach, Fullerton.
ENGINEERING: SLO, Pomona, San Jose.
AGRICULTURE: SLO, Pomona, Fresno.
COMMUNICATIONS: San Diego, Fullerton, San Jose.
NURSING: Los Angeles, San Bernardino.
HOSPITALITY MANAGEMENT: Pomona, San Francisco.
ARTS: Chico, Sonoma, San Diego, Long Beach.
HUMANITIES: SLO, San Diego, San Francisco, Chico.
FORESTRY: Humboldt.
ARCHITECTURE: SLO, Pomona, San Francisco.</p>

<p>Among these CSU units the campus at SLO is most distinguished and selective across the board and is considered the academic flagship campus. San Diego has the most doctoral programs and continues to grow in selectivity. Many campuses are huge, with more than 25,000 students. And some, such as San Diego, San Jose and Fresno, have major league sports programs as well. Some, such as Pomona in HRT, have programs in the top two or three nationally. SLO is frequently mentioned in the top ten in undergraduate engineering and architecture.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>While not in the original post it should further be noted that USC is ranked in the top ten, and even in the top five, among all universities in many programs academically. In some programs USC has moved from rankings in the twenties to the single digits. Some departments in the Marshall School of Business, such as Marketing, are among the best in the nation in terms of top tier research productivity. The Annenberg School of Communication is consistently ranked among the top five. The student body profile is parallel with Stanford and UCLA and is higher ranked in certain departments. Very quickly USC academics is rivaling Trojan athletics in distinction.</p></li>
<li><p>There is absolutely no substance to internet chatter about any UC campus sliding into the CSU nor any substance to any CSU moving into the UC system. These moves would require changes in legislation and are topics not only taboo within the circle of presidents and chancellors but also would be political hot potatoes that no member of the General Assembly would ever seriously pose to committee.</p></li>
<li><p>The Asian population within the CSU is prolific. On the Pomona and San Francisco campuses for example there are Asian pluralities. There are significant double digit Asian presences in all of the urban CSUs.</p></li>
<li><p>The bottom line: Biased view, but the opinion here is that the UC is the best state university system in the world. And the CSU system is better than all but perhaps a dozen state university systems in the nation. One only would need to examine rankings of academic programs and faculty credentials to see the evidence. California is spoiled because it has such a wealth of educational opportunities and sadly some must revert to trashing some elements rather than celebrating what mostly is a rich array of choices.</p></li>
</ol>

29

<p>Thank you for a beautifully written, comprehensive assessment, drj.</p>

30

<p>Concur with drj: the Cal States provide an education that is on a par or better than many other state university systems. However, because of the big kahuna, UC, two of which are world class, the Cal States have little "prestige" outside of the state.</p>

<p>small nit: Cal State San Diego's "doctoral programs" are joint programs with a UC or other uni. By Calif Master Plan, with rare exception, Cal States are precluded from awarding their own doctoral degrees; that is the responsiblity of the University of California system.</p>

<p>fwiw: USC's Engineering Dept is also in the top 10, and ranked ahead of UCLA's.</p>

31

<p>mostly true, bayou, and had i listed all of USC's world class programs i might still be writing. i would be hard pressed to name any university in the world that has moved upward so significantly in the past decade across the board. many programs either rival or even surpass stanford's as the top privates in the west.</p>

<p>wrt "cal state" san diego's joint doctoral programs partly correct. most are joint with places like claremont and the university of california. but recently the state approved stand alone doctoral programs in education at a handful of the CSUs such as san jose and san diego with more coming on stream.</p>

32

<p>Also, the CSU system is fine for many disciplines. But in the cases of physical/life science and engineering the top UC schools blow them away. The main difference I believe between the UC and CSU system is the experience from these schools. The UC system professors often times are mostly research professors and teaching is not a priority. The school in many science/engineering courses attract FAR superior students than the CSU system and with a guideline to set an average course GPA to be a 2.7 , the amount of A's will often be limited. The easiest way for instructors to get a natural cutoff is to make the level of difficulty of a test to parallel the caliber of the students. For a biology related major, where 90% of the students are premed and only 15% of them can receive A's while being some of the best students in the state, it creates an unbelievable amount of competition and high standard of knowledge of the material to succeed. </p>

<p>Since the UC system is often more research oriented. Students are taught differently with the focus more on preparing for graduate school than a BS level job. This leads to a sacrifice of job related skills at the expense to teach more analytical and problem solving skills.</p>

33

<p>2.7? That's really high. I've gone through many a CSU science course where the average was a 2.0. In fact, one of my physics classes only awarded one student an A. This was also a CSU with UC-calibre students.</p>

34

<p>i'd like to see evidence of which five UCs "blow away" the engineering programs at SLO unless you're talking PhD programs since no such data exists. i doubt it even exists for sciences but presume giants has the facts on that one.</p>

35

<p>"lower breeds"</p>

<p>do you have any experience at all with the asian students that choose to go to cal states becuase you are obiviously over mistating the use of lower breeds in comparison to the asian populations at these schools. i can name several ASIAN students with grade levels above a 4.0 with great ec and recs and they still choose schools such as csulb. Why cost, nursing programs are excellent, proximity, etc.</p>

<p>And go ahead and sit in on a for major science classes and then repeat to me the difference between those and ucla. Grading is just as difficult and material is the same. Average is a few A's, a few B's, a 50% drop rate with the rest barely passing or utterly failing. No different than the classes i have seen any where else. </p>

<p>I am not a big fan of cal states either, but you need to realize what your saying, no experience with you subject equates to asking questions, not dictating a degrading opinion of yours using the words lower breed</p>

36

<p>The issue here is not the material being studied but the level of competition for grades. I would bet the top tier CSU students would do fine at a UC as average to slightly above average student, but on the whole average students in lets say in electrical engineering at UCSD, UCLA and UC Berkeley are better academically than the same average students in those majors at the CSU level. </p>

<p>Yes, Calpoly SLO is only CSU with a nationally recognized engineering department on par with many of the UC's to attract the high caliber level of students for those engineering majors.</p>

37

<p>NextMike,</p>

<p>"Lower breeds"? It never ceases to amaze me just how pathetic some members of CC are. You're obviously compensating for something, otherwise you wouldn't need to use such demeaning words. Do yourself a favor and get yourself a life.</p>

38

<p>i have many of these "lower breed" asians in my CSU classes. many of these cro magnon and neandrathal asians come from elite high schools and have admit letters from places like stanford and berkeley. but these "lower breed" asians choose a local cal state because of family bonds since that is a cultural phenomenon among these "lower breed" asians that mike knows so intimately. one example is a student named xiao ping. 4.3 high school GPA, national merit finalist, staying at home to help take care of ailing grandma from PRC. going to "lower breed" cal state school. definitely not very intelligent.</p>

<p>oh yeah...i am married to a "lower breed" asian too. MBA class valedictorian at a cal state, earned the swiftest PhD in a highly demanding major at some "lower breed" place called the Claremont Colleges, and is now a university professor at a "lower breed" Cal State.</p>

<p>the next thing mike is going to tell us is that he didn't know SLO was part of the cal state system, or perhaps that he heard a rumor that it's moving into the UC system since it has none of those low life asians.</p>

39

<p>this thread makes me laugh...</p>

40

<p>It's pretty sad/funny.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Anyway, word on the street is that there's a movement going on to "demote" UC Riverside to Cal State Riverside. There's also the possibility of moving Cal Poly SLO into a UC school since SLO is prolly the only Cal State school with some decent brand name reputation. And everybody knows that UC Riverside totally blows and completely damages the prestige of the UC system. Riverside basically fails to live up to the (somewhat unfair) high standards of the UC system. So instead of being an embarassment to the UC schools, many ppl in California are pushing to demote Riverside to a Cal State level. At least that's the buzz going around in Cali..

[/quote]
</p>

<p>HAHA wow. One of the most unlikely things I've ever seen on cc. So unsubstantiated as well. Dream on. :)</p>