@austinmshauri I’m not the person who posted that quote, but in my ideal world, it would be self selecting. There would be many non-college pathways to decent careers: corporate sponsored training programs with apprenticeships, trade schools, ect. I think a lot of kids might prefer to have a quicker and less expensive path to a job with a good future.
“The path to the local CalState is usually the most-travelled path for CC transfer students, in my orbit.”
… and there’s nothing wrong with that. Cal States are better than many University flagships around the country. I have many family members in California that have taken that route and they are all in thriving careers; one is a senior-director at a major tech company. With millions pursuing that route, and ending up with decent jobs in the sixth biggest economy on the planet, it seems to me the system is working pretty well.
What am I missing?
“Many say that the UCs (and other universities) can and should cut costs. ** The UCs are already an economy-class experience (e.g. big classes, at least in popular majors) compared to some other universities **, but it is likely that many of those suggesting cost-cutting may not want to go even more economy-class like at universities in Canada and Europe.”
Then why is Berkeley so UCLA so highly ranked and why do so many people want to go there? This is an honest (not snarky) question. I’m not from California and frankly don’t understand why any out of state student would want to pay so much money to go to these 2 schools since the classes are so large, impacted majors, etc. I kind of get the in state thing (cost) but the kids with stats for these 2 schools could get substantial merit elsewhere. So why stay? Is it just location?
And about these CCs… there’s a poster on the international student forum who had a European high school education, went to an elite LAC on the East Coast and then to Stanford for her STEM Master’s. After leaving Stanford she took classes at a community college (I suspect it was either Foothills or De Anza) whose math program, she felt, was better than the one at Stanford. She raved about the quality of teaching at the CC and at the kinds of academic possibilities at this two year school.
This whole business about how hard it is to get into the UCs is California’s version of the East Coast preoccupation (and complaints about) with the difficulties of getting into Ivy and Ivy-caliber schools.
Both ignore the wealth of other excellent available options.
@katliamom There’s nothing wrong with that path from CC to CalState at all! I just mean that there’s this perception among a lot of CA parents that there’s an easy path from CC to all the UCs, and there isn’t.
The path from CC to CalState can be a problem, though, if the student wants to major in something that their local CalState isn’t very good at. The CalStates tend to specialize to some extent. For example, one might be really great in education and social work, but not so great at, say, STEM fields. Since the CC student is significantly more likely to get into their local CalState because of preferential admissions for locals, if that school doesn’t happen to offer their major, or isn’t particularly strong in it, then that can be an issue.
Personally, I do think it’s helpful, particularly in a state that can be as insular as CA, to get out of your local area at least once in your life. I realize that many families can’t do that for all four years, or even two. But I wish our state system didn’t exacerbate that situation through it’s local preferential treatment of transfer applications. Combined with our local priority enrollment for high schoolers, we have created a system where a kid growing up in, say, East LA, goes to East LA community college and then on to CalState LA, never leaving their neighborhood or peer group. The ambitious students try to branch out, but then they get caught in a web where they always have the lowest priority registration, are always the lowest on the list for transfer, and so on.
I think the message that all CA students should go on to a four-year college after high school started to go out after CA lost many of its manufacturing jobs. When I was in high school, there were students who had no interest in college, but they could get a good-paying job that did not require a college degree. That option no longer exists for most. Now, if you don’t go to college, you will probably end up working a minimum wage job. Along with that, we have large numbers of high school graduates who are not college ready. They do not meet UC requirements, or even CSU. That is where the CC system is useful.
Many students attend CCs not so they can go on to a four-year college, but as vocational school. They train to become security guards, hair stylists, physician assistants, vet assistants - that type of work. I have known many students who have successfully transferred to UCs from CCs, but they are focused students. CCs give them an opportunity to get a better GPA than they had in high school, and build up any skills they are lacking. Many students go to a CC because they are not really sure what they want to do career-wise, and after attending for a while, decide college is not for them and get a job. That is why large numbers do not become transfers. It should not be disregarded as a viable option for students who do want to go on to a four-year, though.
"Then why is Berkeley so UCLA so highly ranked and why do so many people want to go there? This is an honest (not snarky) question. I’m not from California and frankly don’t understand why any out of state student would want to pay so much money to go to these 2 schools since the classes are so large, impacted majors, etc. I kind of get the in state thing (cost) but the kids with stats for these 2 schools could get substantial merit elsewhere. So why stay? Is it just location? "
Prestige/recognition, top research faculty, top student body and alums, feeders in to desirable industries.
I’ve heard it said that the undergraduate instruction at Harvard actually pales compared to many “lesser” schools but people want to attend Harvard for undergrad as well.
@suzyQ7 – because they are selective (therefore grads are automatically perceived as being accomplished to have gotten in/graduated) have an international reputation and have excellent connections to the local business/research communities. And yes, the locations of Cal and UCLA aren’t bad. If you like sunshine, great food, fascinating cities, multicultural opportunities, beaches, mountains and all these kinds of things 
@ccprofandmomof2,
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/tag-matrix.pdf
says that UCI is open to TAG from all CA CC’s (other than for a few majors).
Is that not true?
UCSB excludes more majors. UCR excludes almost none, and for a kid who is close to UCLA and UCI, UCR can’t be too far.
@PurpleTitan I stand corrected on UCI. Probably I have heard my students say they can’t TAG to UCI because they are business or nursing majors (two very popular majors), and I erroneously thought it was all majors. Still, even for UCR, getting the classes needed and earning the GPA needed hasn’t panned out for my students very well. You can look at the earlier link I posted about the actual numbers and percentages of transfers. Again, I’m not trying to say that TAG never works. But it doesn’t work the way it was originally intended for the majority of students the majority of the time. I think most people are surprised when they see the actual numbers. The overall CC transfer rate is 65% of students WITHIN 6 years. That is students who enter CC with the intention of transferring. It doesn’t count those who intend to get a vocational credential. The numbers of students actually completing the Bachelor’s degree after they transfer are really sad. I’ve seen figures presented in department meetings ranging from 9% to 23%, depending on how you crunch the data. Either way, I think that stinks.
@austinmshauri, UC Merced has a 70% admit rate.
Given that they have space, they probably are only rejecting applicants who they feel can not handle UC-level coursework.
Jobs, jobs, jobs.
Engineering
Tech
Biotech
Bioengineering
Climate of ongoing entrepreneurship = guarantee of continuous opportunities to apply/join + consumer markets with money in them
etc.
This is what’s most important to my applicants. The climate and cultural pleasantries merely make the above more attractive, but the bottom line is literally the bottom line: proximity to a considerable range of hiring opportunities and the continual renewal of those.
@stardustmom I agree completely. Unfortunately, many CCs are increasingly being transformed into colleges whose main purpose is to transfer students. Voc ed programs are being cut or defunded to provide more resources for those who plan to transfer. There is political pressure to do that because those are middle class kids whose parents vote. That’s why I keep saying this is part of a larger issue about how the state conceives of its purpose.
What the CCs should do is have registration priority for those taking the course the first time. Those who withdraw after the add deadline for other than limited out-of-student’s-control reasons (e.g. medical, military reservist gets deployed) go to the back of the priority list the next time they try to enroll in the course.
Not true. My kids’ cousin took the CC to UC route, attending UCLA. She graduated from UCLA 4 years after she graduate high school. UCLA defiitely accepts and priortizes CC transfers → http://www.admission.ucla.edu/Prospect/Adm_tr/tradms.htm
Berkeley: http://cep.berkeley.edu/transfer-alliance-project-tap
UCs are an economy class experience, but the courses and curricula are generally considered high quality in terms of the content that they actually teach. Also, some may think that a student who goes through an economy-class university may have more self-motivation than one who goes through a luxury-class university (this viewpoint favors the CSUs even more). But then there is also the positive feedback loop of prestige ↔ selectivity which tends to drive most people’s rankings of university quality.
But also, there are people who just want to go to California for whatever reason.
@calmom, transfers are not the same as the TAG program (Transfer Admission Guarantee). UCLA, Cal and UCSD don’t participate in TAG.That doesn’t mean they don’t accept (and encourage) transfers. http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/transfer/guarantee/index.html
@calmom, Cal, UCLA, and UCSD definitely take CA CC transfers (and it’s much easier/harder to get in for some majors than others), but they’re not part of TAG, which is a guaranteed transfer (if you meet certain criteria).
That policy is probably in recognition that many non-traditional students cannot move to a distant university as easily. But also, if encouraging CSU students to attend non-local CSUs is done, CSU financial aid would have to become more like UC financial aid, in terms of upgrading to help with living expenses for those not living with their parents.
It is true that, under the current system, those local to a CSU that does not offer their major, or who do not live within commuting distance to a CSU that they can get admitted to, are stuck with the extra living expenses of attending a non-local school.
@PurpleTitan – UC does have minimum eligibility standards, and Merced is likely rejecting applicants who fall short of the minimum requirements, such as below minimum GPA or faillure to complete all a-g required courses.
For what it’s worth, the minimum weighted high school GPA for UC entry is 3.0, so the bar is not set that high.
I’m not sure it would be legal for a UC which has space available to reject any California resident who does meet minimum enrollment requirements; although only those who qualify for top 9% have guaranteed status. But that “guarantee” bit assumes space limitations. So I don’t think it would be a matter of what Merced “feels” about an applicant – it would be something tied to admission criteria.