If you read about how UCs do their admissions, it is absolutely not handpicking in the same way as a private school does their admissions. For a start, they are so buried in applications that it simply wouldn’t be feasible. IMO the UCs are considerably less holistic than private schools, though they do have a mission to encourage first gen applicants.
A surprising fact: UCLA does not consider geographic diversity. At least, they didn’t this year. I was a member of the audience when a UCLA adcom explained this year’s deliberations and addressed suspicious/controversial practices like the ones being speculated about here. He said, “some classes have representation of 120 countries, and some classes have representation from 85 countries - we’re okay with that” and “we get so many applications from the best students in every state, that there is no need to deliberately tip the scales for one state over another” for something to that effect. …so there you have it folks.
Are the UCs the only state schools? (Meaning lower cost for in state?). I thought there was a Cal State Systen too?
Another reassuring fact for everyone who applied to UCLA: Each and every application and the required essays gets reviewed thoroughly, twice. No matter what GPA or test score is attached. So there is no “first cut” where all wheat gets separated from the chaff, as far as GPA and test scores go. The “one-dimensional” review referenced in the OP doesn’t exist.
Yes, California has the following public post-secondary education:
- UCs -- admit the top 12.5% of HS grads, currently approximated as top 9% statewide by stats approximation and top 9% of each high school (these sets obviously intersect).
- CSUs -- admit the top 33.3% of HS grads, approximated by a stats threshold, though some campuses and majors are more selective due to capacity limitations.
- Community colleges -- open admission, with transfer pathway to UCs and CSUs (target is that about a third of UC and CSU grads start at community colleges).
The CSUs have about twice the undergraduate enrollment as the UCs, and the community colleges have far greater enrollment, but that includes many who never intend to transfer to a UC or CSU (e.g. those seeking AA/AS degrees or other education for jobs, those looking to learn another language, etc.). The CSUs are intended to serve local populations and have local area preferences in admissions; they tend to be very inexpensive for commuters living at home, but FA does not get upgraded if living on campus or otherwise on one’s own (unlike UC FA). Note that CSUs are non-holistic and admit by a GPA and test score formula (CPSLO adds a few other things to the formula).
@PurpleTitan Living away from home is expensive… even in Merced. People forget that many students HAVE to stay home and a top student getting rejected from a local UC that they should qualify for, well, of COURSE there is frustration and bitterness. A student whose dad is dying of cancer and being able to commute home an hour instead of 8, makes all the difference (and that’s not a made up scenario.) That doesn’t make them entitled brats.
It always seems like the harshest judgement comes from people who have the better options. The UC system has some problems and there is too big a gap between many of the CSU’s and the UC’s. CC transfers are only garunteed to certain UC’s and in certain majors. Residents are allowed to be annoyed.
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As an aside on the topic of geographic diversity – the adcom said that UCLA’s goal is to ensure a diverse environment over the four-year experience. UCLA is okay with “85 countries” or “47 states” represented in one class, because they will have a different set of countries and states represented in the following year, with the longer view that campus life/interactions are not discrete to each class. Students will interact across classes, and therefore get exposure to diversity over the course of four years. This rationale appealed to me.
@turtletime:
“People forget that many students HAVE to stay home and a top student getting rejected from a local UC that they should qualify for, well, of COURSE there is frustration and bitterness.”
What about a top student who has to stay home but isn’t within commuting distance of the 3 publics in AZ?
It’s the same deal, right? Except in that case, there isn’t even a local UC-level uni around to reject him/her.
UCs do upgrade FA for students living away from home (unlike CSUs). While that does not account for the uncommon case of wanting to stay close to a parent dying of cancer, it does cover most of the financially-needy students who get admitted to a UC.
CSUs are cheaper for commuters, but more expensive for those living at the school. The intent of the CSU system was to have more campuses to put more of the population in commuting range of an accessible university (the CSU local area preferences were intended to help maintain local accessibility). However, there are some population areas that are still far from any CSU (e.g. Fairfield, Visalia, Redding), sparsely populated areas of the state that add up to a significant population, and some areas where the local CSU has gotten too selective to be broad access, even with local preference (San Luis Obispo, San Diego).
From the OP: “I believe all campuses are now majority Asian, many first-gen and recent arrivals…”
About 11 million California tax payers are immigrants, and that number is growing share of the total population. That this is reflected on college campuses should not come as a surprise.
California could do as some other states have done and cap the % of OOS students. It might then have to raise the tuition for all instate students to make up the difference. It already excludes OOS students from receiving any financial aid so it would not be gaining any funds to distribute to the ‘new’ resident students, so would have to give less to all the Cal grant students if the legislature didn’t give more funds.
Florida gives a grant for its residents to go to a private school within the state of 40% of instate tuition. It is currently $3300. Gives state residents a few more options and eases overcrowding at public schools.
As far as I know, there is no California student being shut out of the 10-campus “system” – it just seems that applicants are unwilling to attend the less popular campuses. (Merced, Riverside, Santa Cruz) .
Asians deserve to be at the top UC Schools if they have the best GPA’s and test scores! So funny reading about entitled parents and spoiled kids when it comes to to the UC Schools… arguably the best in the world at ALL 9 locations! Please do NOT make your kid feel like a failure if he/she did not get into Berkeley, LA, San Diego, Santa Barbara, or Irvine! They will get just as good of an education at Davis, Riverside (the fastest growing UC for a reason), Merced, and Santa Cruz (as well as the CSU System)!! People in California have NO IDEA how good they have it compared to the rest of the nation!!
We’re a CA doughnut hole family with a high stats, National Merit kid. The UCs want $30k/year from us, which is 30% of our pre-tax income. This is after our middle class tuition discount but before a possible Regent’s award, which would mean $27.5k instead of $30k.
We can’t do it. That’s more than our mortgage, and after taxes, it’s more than 40% of our income. Yes, we have a small 529 plan, but it’s just barely five digits, so call it $25k/year and we still can’t do it.
Once we had the numbers, S decided not to apply to a single CA college. He knew going in that he’d make NMF, and he knew there would be full rides to choose from. He only applied to two schools, both auto-admit, and both guaranteed full rides.
He’s going out-of-state to University of New Mexico as a premed.
If we look at med school, the situation gets worse.
UCR* SOM tuition in-state is $39k, and the cost of living is high. UNM SOM tuition is $16k in state, and the cost of living is low. True, S would need to take a year off between undergrad and med school for residency purposes, maybe two years, but for SOM tuition that’s less than half of CA’s, it’s well worth it.
Bitter isn’t the right word. I’m worried. I’m worried about a brain drain where CA kids head out of state for college and don’t come back. Admission wasn’t our problem; cost was.
*UCR is our local UC, so it would give S mission-fit advantages for SOM admission.
@twoinanddone – Calgrants are also available for in-state private schools, currently at around $9000 max, so triple what you quoted for Florida. See https://edsource.org/2017/understanding-cal-grant-financial-aid-for-college-students-a-quick-guide/584558
Beyond that, raising tuition for in-state residents would simply increase the number of students who are shut out financially and/or increase the state share of the costs for financial aid for those who qualify for need based aid.
But public schools absolutely do HAVE to consider interests and potential major, because they have limited space in more popular majors; and they also have to assure an appropriate influx of students for the sake of stability and strength of less popular majors. They can’t just decide that one year they are going to hire 30 new faculty for computer science and lay off a bunch of history professors because they have a glut of CS applicants.
And they have the same overall concerns that private universities have – they want to field their athletic teams, they want to provide a campus life that includes students to support or lead a wide variety of endeavors.
Florida rocks. $3,300 is 40% of tuition? Our commuter school was the unaffordable UIUC, which is why my kids went to Maryland and Alabama.
(Sorry to momentarily derail the California discussion.)
You can blame all the OOS kids, but someone has to pay the bills…
“But public schools absolutely do HAVE to consider interests and potential major, because they have limited space in more popular majors; and they also have to assure an appropriate influx of students for the sake of stability and strength of less popular majors. They can’t just decide that one year they are going to hire 30 new faculty for computer science and lay off a bunch of history professors because they have a glut of CS applicants” calmom
I realized after I typed this I stated this badly. For our flagship university, you apply to the sub-college. The college of science and engineering is quite a bit more competitive than the college of education. That is totally understandable. It’s more the interest level fine tuning that I suspect goes on at the privates, especially when it comes to extra curricular or kids from rural vs. private schools. There was a guy that spoke to us at Northwestern who came there from a rural school in a flyover state. His high school had no AP’s. So he came to Northwestern with no college level work. Which is fine. I see why Northwestern would choose to admit a kid with a high test score from no where land where they’ve never admitted anyone. Maybe someone like that would benefit from a year at CC? I don’t know. I don’t think state schools should be making those type of distinctions. And again, maybe the UC system isn’t doing that specifically but they are allowing quite a lot of space for out of state and international students.
I just understand why a family with a kid with a 30+ ACT score would be disappointed and frustrated by their kid only having Merced as a state option. Especially if they were a long time resident and tax payer. And I’m not surprised students are just bypassing that whole mess and finding better deals elsewhere.
@PurpleTitan : Have you ever been to Merced? :))