It looks like UC Merced has 1% OOS students. Why not guarantee OOS students a spot at UCM - a new school in what most Californians would consider the middle of nowhere. That is because it is pay to play. An OOS student can have the same stats as an instate student, but the instate student is offered UCM and the OOS gets a UC in a more desired area. I can hardly blame those who are bitter.
I’m also not really buying that kids are turning their noses at UCSC and/or UCR. Kids with good stats from my kids’ high school were denied from both UCSC and UCR this year.
@VickiSoCal None of those things for our kid. Our kid realized during Junior year, we are the only parents among his friends who don’t put any pressure on him to get good grades or even go to “good” college. Once he realized this, he started appreciating our attitude. I have this attitude because my parents had the same attitude: the only difference between my kid and me is that I skipped my HS very often, whereas my kid still diligently attended his HS. Once I told him “I don’t care if you think carefully and decide you don’t want to go to college but you better learn some skills and earn a living if you don’t”, he sure got motivated about attending college. We even encouraged him to play sport even though he wasn’t athletic, and surprisingly he turned out to be a good cross country runner but he hated his coach so much (almost everyone on the team did) that he quit with our support. I have a great deal of respect for kids who play sports all year and yet get good grades because my kid was falling asleep at 9 pm after practice and had to wake up very early to do his homework.
To this day, we tell him getting good sleep is very important. But this is not to say we are lackadaisical about his education: we encouraged him to try different activities, and once he latches on some interest, we gave him full support. From an early age, we steered him to learn different languages when opportunities were available. For example, when we moved to another country abroad when he was very young, we put him in a regular, cheap school with native kids of that country instead of sending him to an expensive English school. As a result, he picked up another language.
OOS students are largely uninterested in UCM, for presumably the same reasons that most California students are largely uninterested in UCM (but then add the higher OOS price, even with WUE discount for western region students, and no FA, to make it even less attractive to OOS students compared to California students).
For similar applicants (differing only in state residency) applying to the same majors and the same campuses, the results are likely to be similar, though the holistic reading process cannot eliminate all possible random influences.
I am just blown away and sick about our results. My DD has a 4.2 GPA, 30 act, max number of AP’s, college classes, club founder, varsity team captain. TONS of serious and meaninful leadership activities. Super articulate, well spoken, well rounded and an excellent writer. She got incredible letters of rec from teachers and communiy leaders who know her well. These stats are not the top or perfect but we certainly thought she’d get into at least some of the schools she wanted to go to. At least her match schools. No military academy which we knew was a longshot despite the congressional nomination to the USNA. Rejected from UCLA, UCSD, Berkely, Davis, wailisted at Cal Poly Slo and UCSB. She earned one of only 5 congressional nominations for USNA in our highly competetive district in a military town. She was also awarded a full AFROTC scholarship, also highly compeetive. Unfortunately the ROTC scholarship is only for an instate school. She got a Pell grant as well as a Cal grant, but unforunately not a single instate acceptance. We are just sick about it. She didn’t get into even her match schools, only super safety schools in Oregon which were far from her first choice. Even with the scholarships and financial aid, it will cost over 30K we don’t have for our share Freshman year. The ROTC scholarship will pay up to 18K starting Sophmore year but nothing out of state in year 1. With in state tuition and the scholarship or even just the 2 grants, it would have been almost completely covered. It’s incredibly painful to someone who worked so hard for so long to see virtually no reward for her efforts. Of course it’s all they are talking about at school and although there are plenty of others in similar situations all they hear are the kids who did get into the selective schools and places they are excited about. The ones who didn’t get accepted are embarrased and not talking about it so they feel like the only ones. There is nothing anyone can do to ease the sting, especiallly when they see others with lower stats and fewer accomplishments getting into at least a match school or two. We are beyond proud of the effort and the 2 significant wins, but frustrated without the ability to fully utilize the scholarship or at least go to to a school she’s excited about.
Lots of other wonderfully accomplished kids also seeing many rejections but mine seems to have taken more blows than most anyone she knows. It’s hearbreaking. She worked her tail off and feels that her efforts were wasted. The really disgusting part is hearing about the number of kids who lied on their applications, cheated their way through high school and were accepted to multiple colleges.
It’s hard to see the lesson or silver lining in this. We teach our kids that hard work and perserverence will pay off but what is the lesson when it really doesn’t? We were sure she’d at least get into a match school or 2 but out of 13 applications she was accepted at only 2 out of state colleges with averages far below her stats. Hopefully she’ll have a great time and thrive wherever she lands and the plan is to transfer when she can but what a huge and painful disappointment.
I didn’t read all the posts but thanks for letting me vent. I hear this year was unususally brutal, not that that helps much. I’m just sick about needing to come up with 30K in the next few months and feeling like she has such limited options after all the hard work and preparation. This has been a big and painful “sometimes life just isn’t fair” lesson.
I’m sure she’ll come out great in the end, but as a parent we want them to see rewards for doing the right things and putting in the effort.
Kids are not “shut out” of the UC Schools…only the “top or mid tier UC’s”. Very unfortunate that they and the parents even more are chasing that “prestige” and “location” thing which is overrated and then complaining when it doesn’t come through without considering “other” UC’s that have their major. They will get an amazing education at the “lower tier” UC’s (Riverside (Avg 3.7 GPA, 27 ACT, 1190 SAT, & 50 % Acceptance rate and getting tougher every year…FASTEST GROWING UC), Santa Cruz (great location for those not wanting “inland”), and Merced (newest)) or the ones in “crappier” inland locations (Davis) for those spoiled kids that only want to be by the “big city” or beach! Amazing at the entitled, spoiled, elitist, “prima donna”, snobbish, “superiority complex”, negative attitudes many parents have over NOT even considering other UC’s or even CSU’s where you will definitely receive an amazing education if you apply yourself no different from the others!!
I have gone through all the posts. Most of them reflect the ground realities and the way the admission process is followed in the Public Universities, where state funding is far from adequate to ignore the temptation of accepting international students with full tution. The problem is not that the admitted students lack academic credentials. The difference is in the grooming process. It is very different from the way a resident boy/girl is groomed to experience all facets of life including sports, music, community activities and other social engagements which made America what it is today. There is no denying of the fact that hardworking, intelligent immigrants have contributed a lot to the US economy and are genuine contributors to the scientific research conducted in most of the universities.
In my opinion, when it comes to undergraduate (college) education, it is fair to expect that residents are given a higher weightage in the admission process. I am including the second generation immigrants whose parents are tax payers and are equally entitled for an additional weightage.
With regard to the upbringing, one of the posts listed, I think, about 12 points. He is not far from the reality! Yes, ‘withholding meals’ is very unusual, but the kind of pressure these ‘Asian kids’ go through is something very uncommon amongst the rest. I am not passing value judgement, but the truth must be accepted.
I know I am late to this thread, which I just discovered. However, I’ll have to disappoint the OP and disclose that virtually all of my students are Asian. Many of them, yes, are first-generation Californian, and yet very few of them are getting the UC campus results they want, despite very high scores, grades, and other accomplishments. I can’t say that “more accomplished” or “less accomplished” have gotten in, because so far, I can’t find a single student who HAS been accepted to Berkeley in 2018, and only one of my students has been accepted to UCLA. Previously, Internationals and other OOS-ers have had an advantage, but not a majority. The Regents held Napolitano to a cap on non-Californians last year, so it’s not possible that the majority of admits to the top UC’s are OOS-ers, either.
I do think Californians have a right to be angry about the compromise to residency, yes I do. But residency is not race or national origin. South Dakotans and Internationals should not be preferred, ever, to California residents. I think that perhaps the issue most controversial is that of undocumented immigrants being preferred over native California Asian-Americans.
California residents would rather pay more taxes to support the UC system than to see the system supported by non-resident tuition fees.
@gallentjill : I’f you’d read my entire post, you would realize that D went to Dartmouth and that I think she received a better education than she probably would have at Berkeley. That is not to say that one would not like to have had choices – not to mention paying instate tuition rather than Ivy League prices. Yes, we were fortunate. That does not mean I need to be happy with UC admissions.
"* UCs – admit the top 12.5% of HS grads, currently approximated as top 9% statewide by stats approximation and top 9% of each high school (these sets obviously intersect).
CSUs – admit the top 33.3% of HS grads, approximated by a stats threshold, though some campuses and majors are more selective due to capacity limitations.
Community colleges – open admission, with transfer pathway to UCs and CSUs (target is that about a third of UC and CSU grads start at community colleges)."
It seems wrong to me that the lower two thirds of California’s population has only 2 year Community Colleges as their public option. There should be some 4 year state colleges with the capacity to educate the majority of its population. That’s a lot of taxpayers who are paying into the state education system for decades, only to have their kids denied an affordable 4 year option.
I’m a big proponent of Community Colleges, for a variety of reasons. But I do think that there should be some 4 year options available, for kids who don’t want to have to transfer in 2 years, but who aren’t in the top third of their class.
I’m not saying that every kid should get into the school of his/her choice— but that there should be some public choices with a much lower bar.
If those choices exist, with the combined capacity for most of that two-thirds of the population, and the kids are simply not interested in those choices, then that’s a different story.
@epiphany guessing most of the state does not feel that way or they would fully fund the system and cap OOS like UNC does. The systen appears to be overloaded. Look at it this way, the UC system is suffering from its own success?
If it helps, I feel for you from the other coast, where the taxes are too dang high and we don’t even have an elite UC system to send our kids to. Knowing NYers will pay, the SUNY system never tried to compete with the NE elites around them.
Off topic and will likely raise some feathers but in a way, it’s a good thing. Great opportunity for CAs to leave the state and experience a different part of the country. Wife was born and raised in NoCal but has lived back east for many years. Her relatives all still live in NoCal. Completely different views of the world. One that’s quite balanced vs. my way or the highway. Almost comical.
This thread reminds me of someone who complains of how bad the traffic is. Well, if you are sitting in traffic, you are contributing to the traffic. Same with someone who complains about overpopulation. The mere fact you are alive means you are contributing to overpopulation. You are part of the head count.
University of California is not among them, which tells me that Californians have it better than residents of say, Michigan or Illinois or Pennsylvania or Massachusetts. While those states have top-tier schools, residents pay top-tier prices. Here are the most expensive public schools based on in-state prices (in descending order, from link above)
New Hampshire
Vermont
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
Illinois
Michigan
South Carolina
Delaware
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
@theloniusmonk these are things my kids’ friends have told them their parents do. Not stereotyping. Also things the kids have directly told me as a girl scout leader. I suppose they could be making it up.
A trip down California memory lane…I graduated from a good high school in Ventura County in 1982. Sent off my UC application in November (Berkeley was my #1)…had an acceptance 11 days later though the letter was dated for January. Called Berkeley and was told “yeah, above a certain GPA you just get in and you hit that. Letters were sent out early by mistake but yes you are in”. (Didn’t go to school there…couldn’t get housing so my parents said no.) Back then lots of kids also went to community college for two years to save money and then transfer to all the UC schools no one can get into any more, especially UCLA. It’s just nuts now.
Entitled Californian parent with entitled Californian kid here. It so happened that my white high achieving girl was always surrounded by asian high achieving students. I found the stereotypical list upstream very disturbing to say the least. I also don’t think that it is Asians who take someone else’s spots at UCs during “holistic “ application review. Also there’s no way high achieving students will be happy with admission to lower tier UCs or CSU and if those are the only schools they can get in now it’s very sad for them and for California because those kids will attend schools outside of California and might not want to come back. And this along with people leaving California because of other issues will completely change demographic decades from now.