Calling all Current Berkeley Out-of-State Students

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>I'm from Texas and I have to make a decision between UT and Berkeley. I went to the OSP last weekend and had a great time. I really like Berkeley. The problem I have is that Berkeley is an extra $18k over UT. My parents can cover UT cost, and I would have to try and find the rest. My fin aid from Berkeley was all in loans (my parents make a decent amount but due to other factors money became an issue). My question is really: what can I do to come to Berkeley? I'm willing to really do anything I need to to go. What are my options? </p>

<p>Also, the other thing I'm considering is that at UT most of my AP credits will transfer and I would be able to get out of undergrad in two-three years. But at Berkeley it looks like AP credit will not transfer as much and I'd have to stay for four years. My major at this point is economics, and I've taken World (5), US (5), Calc AB (5), and Span Lang (4). I'm taking next week Eng Lang, Eng Lit, US Gov, Comp Gov, Micro, Macro, Calc BC, and Span Lit. </p>

<p>Any and all advice will be appreciated. Thanks</p>

2

<p>My advice would be to go to UT......unless you want to do engineering or chemical sciences......then going to Berkeley might be worth the extra cost. You should apply for scholarships, grants, etc while you're enrolled at Berkeley.</p>

3

<p>$18k x 4 = $72,000</p>

<p>If you factor in the fact you might be able to save a year of expenses from UT, the savings looks closer to $95,000. </p>

<p>You need to make a case for why Berkeley is almost $100,000 better or more valuable than UT. I'm not sure you can (and I'm speaking as a Berkeley fan and mom of a freshman there). </p>

<p>Can you quantify what you really like about Berkeley as it applies to your career goals and your ability to make up the $100K difference in cost of attendance? (And if you are talking about loans, then you need to add interest to the total amount). </p>

<p>In what ways would you be happier at Cal than at UT?</p>

4

<p>hey alex, it's albert...just happend by your thread. like i said earlier, if you figure out a way to make it work, then go where you feel most comfortable. if not, then definitely take financial issues into account. the people above make a very compelling argument... i don't know if i can justify the extra 100k. good luck with your decision, keep in touch, and hope to see you at cal next year!</p>

5

<p>I can't really quantify how Berkeley would fit into my career plans as they really aren't that clear to me either at the moment. I'm thinking economics but that could also change. There are several reasons I liked Berkeley over UT: 1) More spirit then UT (or at least when I went to their respective overnight programs that's what I got), Cal Students were more excited to get into Cal then UT students to get into UT; 2) Berkeley offers a more "down-to-earth" environment then I thought UT did, and I feel that's important to a college education; 3) I like that Berkeley is as some people have told me "in a class of its own" in terms of political views, because of my interest in politics; 4) Berkeley is close to San Francisco which is a major city and highly international, as oppossed to Austin which is also international but at the same time stuck in the middle of Texas; and finally 5) the weather was better at Berkeley, I know not a great reason but still something to consider, as well as mass transit at Berkeley (BART) would be a lot cheaper then driving at Austin. The think is I don't think I can justify the extra $100k, but I'm willing to work and do whatever I can to find that extra money, whether it be by working or scholarships or whatever.</p>

6

<p>Okay, I respect that. It sounds like you think Berkeley is a better "fit" for you than UT and are not just falling for a prestige trap or thinking that UT's academics are super inferior (I'm sure they're not). </p>

<p>We all make value decisions on how to spend our money (both current and future money). I mean, it would be a lot cheaper for my son to live at home and attend our local community college for two years and then (continuing to live at home) go to our local state college 20 mins. away. That would save us, oh, about $75,000 over four years. However, we value the experience of Berkeley, of living away from home, not to mention the better academics, peer group, opportunities for ECs, etc... enough so that we are proud and happy to spend that kind of money on him. Some families couldn't do it, and some would never justify the increased cost (my husband's family was like this and to this day he feels he was robbed of a real college experience). </p>

<p>I'm not one who says never, ever borrow. Sometimes making dreams come true does take borrowing. But you have to add up the cost ahead of time and then really ask yourself what you are getting for the money AND how long it will take to pay it back AND at what cost to your future choices/freedom. And then you have to really be willing to work to make it happen. </p>

<p>You can probably make $3,000 every summer and could work part-time during school to offset some more, thus borrowing only $12K or so a year. Try to borrow as little as possible.</p>

7

<p>Economics is fairly tough at Berkeley and in my opinion won't open many doors. In my opinion, its one of the worst departments at Berkeley since they are so many economics majors it offers the worst Berkeley has to offer in terms of poor counseling and impersonal nature. I had the same choice as you and chose Berkeley (I had the option of going to Duke and other places too), and I regret my decision.</p>

<p>I think you are underplaying certain things. For example, form my perspective:</p>

<p>1) "More spirit then UT." You met with a small part of the body. In general, while there are a lot of people that like the Cal teams and whatnot, Berkeley is still a public school and has many, many disinterested people. Like UT, you will have to go and try to find your own peer group.</p>

<p>2) "Berkeley offers a more "down-to-earth" environment then I thought UT did, and I feel that's important to a college education" </p>

<p>What does this mean? It's an urban, inner city in America and its similar to such places from all over the country. Its mostly grungy and weird in my opinion with a lot of bums around. There's a lot of noise in Berkeley but very few people that follow the adage, "Speak only if it improves the silence."</p>

<p>3) "I like that Berkeley is as some people have told me "in a class of its own" in terms of political views, because of my interest in politics"</p>

<p>I guess they're right. Berkeley is a microcosm of California, with extremely liberal people and a few extremely conservative people. You will have to deal with the extremely liberal people more, so take from that what you wish. All the political stuff I attended as a poli sci major was very heavily liberally-biased, so much that I stopped staying for discussion and questions because there was no meaningful discourse.</p>

<p>"Berkeley is close to San Francisco which is a major city and highly international, as oppossed to Austin which is also international but at the same time stuck in the middle of Texas"</p>

<p>Not a lot of people I know commute to San Francisco. Mostly just premeds who have jobs at UCSF. Its about a 30-45 minute Bart ride. By and large you will spend most of your time around Berkely and the Bay area. You're right that Austin is more insular, but I'm not sure what you are expecting from a more cosmopolitan environment which happens to be near Berkeley.</p>

<p>"5) the weather was better at Berkeley, I know not a great reason but still something to consider, as well as mass transit at Berkeley (BART) would be a lot cheaper then driving at Austin."</p>

<p>I have to admit its much better when its nice out but Berkeley does have a lot of rain days (which Austin won't), and the winters have a high wind-chill factor where Texas weather won't. Its different at the least, but I wouldn't say necessarily always better.</p>

<p>The bart is still pretty expensive if you add up the daily costs. COnsidering the difference in Berkeley's overall price, buying a used toyota and driving around Austin (according to your own schedule and not someone elses) seems to be the cheaper alternative.</p>

<p>"The think is I don't think I can justify the extra $100k, but I'm willing to work and do whatever I can to find that extra money, whether it be by working or scholarships or whatever"</p>

<p>Berkeley has poor resources (scholarship wise) versus the overall student population. You will have to keep your grades up and be very active to get new scholarships.</p>

<p>In my opinion, you have to be careful about choosing Berkeley. If you plan to have your BA in Economics be your ultimate degree, than a Berkeley degree will certainly have more "wow" factor nationally and internationnally and will likely be more worth it. If you plan on going to grad school or professional school; you should realize this will be easily in excess of 100k depending on where you go. If that's the case, then you should definitely stick to UT.</p>

<p>I would say the Berkeley experience is very similar to UT's since they are both very large, public schools and many of your listed Berkeley "advantages" can easily be disadvantages depending on the circumstances.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
I guess they're right. Berkeley is a microcosm of California, with extremely liberal people and a few extremely conservative people. You will have to deal with the extremely liberal people more, so take from that what you wish.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Berkeley a mircrocosm of California? I ask you for the 10th time, you ever been to Southern California? You ever see the voting trends of different counties in CA? As a poli sci major, are you aware the north tends to be liberal and the south is very fragmented?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Its about a 30-45 minute Bart ride

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The ride itself takes about 22 minutes according to <a href="http://www.bart.gov%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.bart.gov&lt;/a>, the ride from downtown Berkeley to San Francisco takes 22 minutes or so. Certainly time should be factored in for getting to the station, and figuring out where you're going in SF, including possible bus times, though, but the ride itself is not as long as you say it is. It takes 40 minutes on the BART to get from the Berkeley station to the station in a city south of San Francisco on a non-stop train. Also, many students go to SFat least some of the times, what seem to be for most a few times a semster to a few times a month.</p>

<p>Rain days?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USTX0057?from=search%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USTX0057?from=search&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0087?from=search%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0087?from=search&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Seems fairly similar to me, just spread over months differently. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/wxclimatology/compare/USCA0087?sfld1=Berkeley,%20CA&sfld2=Austin,%20TX,%20US&clocid1=USCA0087&clocid2=USTX0057%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/vacationplanner/wxclimatology/compare/USCA0087?sfld1=Berkeley,%20CA&sfld2=Austin,%20TX,%20US&clocid1=USCA0087&clocid2=USTX0057&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This one makes it seem that Berkeley would be more rainy over the year, maybe about twice as much rain per year during the school year, and that Austin catches back up during the summer time. It doesn't show wind-chill factor.</p>

<p>BART does cost at least $6.10 roundtrip from downtown Berkeley to San Francisco.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If you plan on going to grad school or professional school; you should realize this will be easily in excess of 100k depending on where you go. If that's the case, then you should definitely stick to UT.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is certainly true, although it makes it seem like graduate programs in econ cost a lot- good PhD programs are fully funded and cost nothing. Private law school costs what, 120k for three years or thereabouts without aid? Public in Texas or CA I'm not sure. Med school, I'm not sure. Business school varies as well, doesn't it?</p>

9

<p>I understand most of the positives and negatives of the situation. What I really want to know is what are my options if I were to come to Berkeley.</p>

<p>Thanks to momof2inca for giving me advice on loaning money and jobs. That's really what I was looking for. If there are any out-of-staters who have been in this situation, I'd like to know what you did. Or for anyone at all who has a job while at Berkeley, what's it like? Is it hard? How much does it cut into your study time/free time? What type of job do you have? Etc. </p>

<p>Thanks</p>

10

<p>Well, my son has a job/paid internship. He works on a state Senate political campaign and earns $10 an hour on weekends or whenever he has free time. That will be ending soon and he's looking for something else because he'd like to stay in Berkeley over the summer. He's worked since the second month of school and has managed to take upper div poly sci/history classes and keep a 3.8 gpa plus be very active in ECs.</p>

<p>Have you worked before?</p>

11

<p>Hey! This is cool, I'm in a similar boat, I'm from TX, and have to decide between Berkeley and UT. I think for you, if you really want to go to Berkeley and your heart is set on it, then you will find a way to make it work, go to Cal. It seems you have pretty good reasons too. GO!</p>

<p>One thing is though that I went to the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science (TAMS) for my last two years of high school. For those of you who don't know what this is, it is a program where students from all over TX live on campus at the University of North Texas. This is an accredited four year university. By living here, I have attended classes in Bio, Physics, World Literature, History...etc. at UNT. I have talked to representatives and they say that I can get at least a year's worth of credit transferred meaning I should be able to graduate at least within 3 yrs at Berkeley. I would graduate in the same length of time at UT as well. I guess the main thing is cost then, which is 42k a year about. So I'll be spending roughly 120k at Berkeley. My parents can afford it pretty easily seeing as they both work and make pretty good incomes, so although cost is a factor, it is not a deciding factor. I am going into MCB, with neurobiology emphassis, and with my credits, it wont take me long before I can start taking upper division courses.
I want to go to Berkeley because
1. Of course prestige is obviously one of them, biology ranks #2 in the nation, at least graduate level
2. Faculty at Berkeley in MCB is very strong (This is very important)
3. Very good research faciliites, talked to professors, and they said i should be able to get reseasrch
4. Overall stronger academics than UT
5. Very competitve, will bring the best out of me (hopefully, cause i work well in competitive atmospheres)
6. Very liberal, hey, im liberal
7. Campus is absolutely gorgeous
8. Good weather
9. Peer groups seem very cheerful and kool</p>

<p>So, these are my reasons pretty much, in no particular order. I think its worth the extra 100k, especially since we can afford it. Based on these reasons, what do you guys think, do you think it's worth it for me to go to Berkeley? Thanks so much</p>

12

<p>To momof2inca, I've never worked for money, but I've volunteered at several medical vacilities doing both administrative and medical work. I know my experience my not be that high, but I feel confident that I could adapt to any job whether it be a fry cook at McDonalds or with something like your son does. If you don't mind me asking, how many hours did he work on the weekends? It seems that he was able to work and still pursue a good school career which is encouraging. </p>

<p>General question: Is there anything else I can do besides applying for scholarships and working to make going to Berkeley a reality?</p>

<p>To Pulkit, if your parents support you going to Berkeley, and since you like it, you should go. A lot of Berkeley from what I've seen is based in its atmosphere, what you learn out of the classroom more then what you learn inside.</p>

13

<p>ya i guess, so, i just hope im not too overwhelmed with being in a totally different place from all of my friends (most are going to ut)</p>

14

<p>sulieman, My son had never worked for pay in high school either. He had volunteered in a couple different internships though and that's what helped him get his paid internship at Cal. Volunteering counts as work! My son workS about 8 hours on weekends, either splitting between Saturday and Sunday, or doing it all in one day. He does take weekends off, too, like this one he's in Sacramento for a political convention. </p>

<p>He also worked for a while as a dishwasher in one of the dorm dining areas, but that got old really fast for him. I think there are on-campus jobs that are posted, maybe some are online? I know I worked part time (15-20 hours a week) in college at the campus bookstore and I still had enough time to study and be social. It's doable, but you will have to frugal with your money.</p>

<p>Pulkit -- college should be the time in your life when you step boldly outside of your comfort zone. Yes, you will be overwhelmed at times, but you will learn to adapt and you will grow much stronger for it. You will make new friends and still keep your old ones. Plus, you will bring back to your home state a wealth of experience that your stay-at-home friends will not have. California is one of the most diverse places on earth! Go for it!</p>

15

<p>Thanks for your help. This thread has really helped a lot in making my decision, though I'm not sure yet.</p>

16

<p>pulkit, i couldn't have said it better myself. i assume you've decided to go to berkeley? i met another guy at the alumni OSP program from TAMS. it's really weird how i'm managing to meet all these people i kind of know on CC...</p>