<p>bumping this up. Starbright, if you see this, could you please take a look at my post #39? Thanks.</p>
<p>I understand the logic of those urging against UG business courses, but suggest 2 other points for consideration:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Not every kid wants to go to school for an additional 2 years or to start, then stop a career by following the UG, then real world experience, then MBA model–and many other kids will not be able to afford 2 more years of tuition.</p></li>
<li><p>Business courses may be boring to some, but languages are to others, or physics, etc. And do not group all business courses together–while Accounting is close to Math, Marketing or Labor Relations is closer to Psychology or Sociology (with Statistics being relevant) and Advertising is close to English. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Until Starbright answers your question, my suggestion is that MBA programs will be more impressed by an accredited business program than a non-accredited program (all else being equal) but MBA programs are filled with people who never took any business course whatsoever, and that they will take an A student from a top LAC before a B+ or even A- student from a lower tier business program (GMATS and work experience aside). </p>
<p>I think it will be helpful to learn more about what graduates of the 2 schools go on to do.</p>
<p>"Ironically, posts such as these in fact make the argument for some kind of professional or quasi-professional focus in undergraduate school. The point is to obtain some sort of marketable skill or at least the rudiments of some economically viable expertise. Thus, finance, accounting, economics, math, engineering and computer science all add value in the business marketplace, while marketing, history, English, anthropology, etc. do not. "</p>
<p>Wrong, wrong and wrong. Part of Microsoft’s early success was due to aggressive recruiting of anthropology majors who knew more about culture, how groups interact with each other, and how habits and mores are established than even the most brilliant computer scientists. There are dozens of Fortune 100 companies who are happy to hire English or History majors for a host of roles. Businesses can’t find enough foreign language majors - particularly Mandarin.</p>
<p>To the OP- agree with Starbright’s advice to encourage your son to check out the career development center at both colleges. You can download the Fall “recruiting calendar” at both schools which will answer your questions. If the companies recruiting are primarily local, or ones that you’ve never heard of- that answers your question. If you start to see “household names”, i.e. global insurance companies, credit card companies, consumer products companies that make the stuff that’s already in your pantry… than the schools are able to attract the kind of employers who hire more than one or two kids per year.</p>
<p>Northeastmom asks,oes AACSB accreditation matter a lot when it comes to acceptance into a business graduate school program?</p>
<p>Response: Let me give an example. My son majored in accounting. He did fairly well with a 3.1 overall GPA, which was a bit low for the graduate school that he applied to. HOWEVER, when they found out that he attended an AACSB accredited school, their interest level changed, and he was provisionally admitted. I would think that this probably applies to most AACSB accredited schools.</p>
<p>As for majoring in business, I just had this conversation with my wife. I am in favor of a “vocationally oriented” major as long as the student also takes a number of liberal arts courses in order to strengthen their skills in reading and writing. </p>
<p>With that said, a major in “business administration” is not a vocationally oriented major. I would only major in business IF it were accounting, marketing ( if the student is interested in sales), operations finance, computational finance, IT, actuarial studies or supply chain management.</p>
<p>If they do major in a business discipline, they won’t need to get an MBA,which is usually redundant for business majors and particularly so for accounting majors.</p>
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<p>Taxguy, thank you. That validates what I heard from someone who is familiar with AACSB accreditation. This person told me that it DOES matter because it tells the graduate school that the program met certain standards. Colleges must be getting this accreditation and listing it in their marketing material for a reason. I was told that it is quite expensive and long process for a school to get this accreditation, although it is not as exclusive as it used to be. Frankly, if you look at the list of AACSB accredited schools, you will find 4th tier schools listed, which I find interesting.</p>
<p>Some schools go for ACBSP accreditation, which I have been told is less expensive for a school, and easier for a school to get, but it is not the same as AACSB accreditation when it comes time for graduate school admissions and job opportunities.</p>
<p>blossom, thanks for the advice about looking at who is on the fall recruiting calendar.</p>
<p>blossom your idea about looking at the list of companies who recruit was a good one. The results are as follows:</p>
<p>Neither school had dozens of tables of companies recruiting students. </p>
<p>School A does not have a list out yet for their fall job fair, but they have a list of companies who were at their summer job fair. I must say that the list is VERY SAD. There was one company with a name that I recognize. The rest were camps, city park and recreation, a food bank, etc. </p>
<p>School B had a fair recently. There were 7 companies that are large household names that were represented at this fair. I do not know who was hiring and who was just scouting for interns (it was a career and internship fair). There were also plenty of graduate schools at this fair looking to recruit students for graduate programs!!</p>
<p>NEmom, I forgot to congratulate you on your son’s unselfishness. I am sure he will do well at either school.</p>
<p>Were you surprised that the school which offers more marketing courses to its students was the school that does no marketing of itself? Better that than the opposite.</p>
<p>I would just like to point out that accounting is not the same as math major, at least not at the college level.</p>
<p>Both of those schools look to have pretty poor recruiting. So I’m left confused by why this young man wants to go to one of two lesser known schools that don’t sound to have top English or business programs rather than attend a local state school? It would just seem that he might have more exist strategies whether he chooses to be an Englisher teacher or accountant at his state school and the cost should be lower. What am I missing?</p>
<p>yabeyabe, thanks, and you caught on quickly, LOL! Well, the marketing thing is my opinion, but they really do not put themselves into the guidebooks.</p>
<p>hmom, you need to know that these are tiny schools, and this is not the strongest economic time so it does not surprise me that there are not many companies at those job fairs. As far as why these schools over state schools, well:
These schools offer small classes, students are not lost in the shuffle, you are not a number, professors are available for their students, these schools are student focused rather than research focused. School B does help quite a bit with internships and 2 students that I spoke with had gotten very good internships, but both were working for local government rather than in private industry. I have now spoken with a few current students and they rave about this school. They are still students though, so they have not tried to find employment or applied to grad schools yet.</p>
<p>Oldfort, I was not saying math and accounting are the same–my mother, who was a college math teacher, taught me that, although both subjects appeal to people who enjoy working with numbers at a high level. I was I was, rather, pointing out that the various business offerings are more similar to non-business offerings than they are to each other, and that blanket statements that all business courses are boring are simplistic.</p>
<p>hmom5, some kids who would flourish at a medium to large state school would find a small school confining and some kids who would flourish in a small environment would be overwhelmed in a large school. Lucky kids can succeed in either. The small schools we visited all took great pains to address the “Why should I pay so much more money to come here rather than a state school?” question without being asked. They may not all deliver on their promises, but below the Haverfords, etc, small schools in this economy know it is on every parent’s mind, as I am sure it was on northeastmom’s.
In another sign of economic times, I noticed that recruiting brochures and Open Houses for non-elite LACs are now highlighting career options and outcomes for their liberal arts graduates.
Congrats to all posters for offering their candid advice without asking for the names of the schools, although I am sure many of us are curious!</p>
<p>yabeyabe, I will say that these schools after merit aid offered thus far are NOT more expensive than our instate public school options in NJ. Much of that has to do with the fact that both schools are not in the northeast.</p>
<p>yabeyabe, I want to compliment you. You said this very well,
</p>
<p>I do not believe that my son would be overwhelmed at a large school, but he really would prefer close interaction with professors, class discussion, and more essays than multiple choice tests.</p>
<p>Some schools have recruiters that come in for actual appointments, in addition to job fairs. Be sure you’ve got information on both (if these schools have both.)</p>
<p>Given the job fair list at both schools, and additional posts on this thread, I think you might be taking the wrong focus on both of these schools. Reading between the lines…</p>
<p>These schools seem like they might be a great fit for your son, especially school B. It’s the one that has repeatedly had more positive comments from you. </p>
<p>However, neither of these schools appears to have particularly strong undergraduate business programs, and definitely don’t appear to have strong career services connections with the business/management community. If you think it’s likely your son may want a double major (humanities/business) or may drift towards straight undergrad business – he needs some other choices with good liberal arts AND good business programs. </p>
<p>But, as I’ve stated on a previous post, as have others who are professionals in the business teaching field…there isn’t a strong professional advantage to getting an undergraduate business degree, other than accounting, especially when there is any thought of getting an MBA.</p>
<p>There are the top tier school applicants. Students’s w/ SAT’s scores over 700 on each section, top 5-10% percent of class, etc. And then there is the rest of the college applicant pool. I get the impression that the op’s S is in this last mega majority.</p>
<p>Many small private schools offer scholarships and/or financial aid that make it cheaper than the state school. Do not assume that the state school is the better deal. So go to the best school that offers the best financial deal.</p>
<p>And oldfort I totally concur, accounting is not a math subject. Yes, accounting, for the most part, has numbers. They usually represent dollars.</p>
<p>Northeastmom, as someone who’s been in business for a long time, I find myself having many discussions lately about how important it is or is not to choose schools for employability right now. In the end, everyone needs to decide for themselves.</p>
<p>That said, while I appreciate small classes and prof attention–2 of my three chose schools for these reasons–if I had a child right now who was interested in a job in business and was not headed to a top school, I’d at least discuss with them the issues and trade offs.</p>
<p>As the world becomes more global, starting accounting jobs are going overseas in greater numbers and business jobs in general are just getting tougher to get. I think choosing schools with historically strong recruiting is important. And if you’re a family with local contacts, that will help a lot too. Just food for thought.</p>
<p>The best financial deal may not reap the best financial rewards.</p>
<p>Hi NE mom…sorry haven’t been on the computer for awhile. MBA programs don’t care what your major is, so they surely don’t care about the quality of the particular major. So no, it doesn’ tmatter. AASCB is important to you/student because its like a Michelin rating for a restaurant…it tells you you’ll get a particular product as an undergraduate business major. And chances are, such a product is one that happens to get a lot of recognize by recruiters. </p>
<p>But since having an undergraduate business major isn’t important to MBA programs (its completely not necessary and I honestly don’t get the point why one would get a ug business degree AND THEN an MBA), and they don’t care. So say your kid goes to, I dunno, Pomona or Hope College, with a 3.5 and a 740 GMAT…they couldn’t care less if the degree in physics is a reknowned one, or if the chemical degree is certtifed by the American Chemical Association, or if the business major is aascb (to be honest, well regarded MBA programs aren’t really thinking about the quality of undergrad business programs…no one takes them that seriously…its all about MBA programs). So they aren’t going to be judging the quality of the major…just the school (in a general sense), the major only to make the class diverse, the GPA and the GMAT, and of course the all important work experience). </p>
<p>I hope this helps. I’m not sure I’m being very clear with my explanation.</p>
<p>BTW, don’t rule out big schools IF your teen is interested in business programs. Often they are an island unto themselves…a small, intense, very close knit self-contained school that happens to be within a larger school. In that sense, it coudl be the best of both worlds-- small school, know the profs, lots of student-faculty interaction and great opportunities…but also the diversity and clubs and name recognition of a bigger one. But my sense from what you’ve written, is that the business thing probably isn’t his thing anyway. If thats the case, I’d let him major in what he’s interested in most, and if business turns out to be his thing after working a few years, the MBA is the way to go.</p>
<p>starbright, thank you so much for explaining this to me!! Now I feel free to give my son the green light to choose schools that do not have a business school with this accreditation, or even a LAC with just some business classes available.</p>
<p>My 2 cents worth…</p>
<p>I would go for Rutgers if you are worried about employment later. Private is not always better than public, this is from someone who has sent 2 kids to privates from K -12 and college. There are many private secondary schools around where we are that couldn’t hold a candle to many public schools here. What makes education worth while is the institution’s resource: it includes instructors, facilities, special programs, and it’s reputation. For K-12 the reputation would help kids get into colleges, for college it would help students to get into graduate school and future employment. Small LAC, while it’s nice that it’s small and give personal attention, but if it’s not run properly many required courses are not offered every semester, or if a professor leaves then it may never be offered again. Around the tri-state area, Rutgers is a well respected school, many employers know the school better, compared to many small LACs. A larger school would also allow your son to change majors if he so chooses. Even if he is interested in English, he could also take a lot of other electives or have a minor. My daughter at a very large U. is finding that to be the case. She will be graduating with 2 majors (math, econ), and a minor in humanities (gender studies). It couldn’t have been done as easily at a smaller school due to scheduling issue or availability of classes.</p>
<p>Here’s another take on business undergrad plus MBA (from someone with an MBA who has interviewed hundreds of MBAs). When you’re interviewing for jobs, it’s really not as interesting to employers when you have two business degrees. It’s much better to have English plus MBA (makes you more well-rounded) or even Engineering plus MBA (especially if going into Operations Mgmt.) There are any number of courses of study that will enhance the value of your MBA much more than a business undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>I have MBA from local college. While HR and other interviewer usually have been impressed by me having MBA and high GPA (surprisingly so even after 30 years of experience), nobody ever cared about name of school.</p>