<p>My undergrad school had lots of keg parties, back in the day when 18yearolds could drink 3.2 beer. It was all about getting drunk and hooking up. I found friends who drank in moderation or barely drank at all, and had a good time, even at a party school. In picking a school, it's important to find out if one of the major social events is drinking or DRINKING. Drinking is a beer with friends, or a marguerita while dancing at a party, (alcohol as a social lubricant, used in moderation and at the appropriate time and place). DRINKING is students chugging to get drunk, overusing alcohol, and damaging their health/studies/relationships/opportunities. It's important to choose a school where it's the lowercase "drinking", or where there is a large enough population of kids who don't drink/or drink lightly, and where there are lots of things going on that don't include alcohol.</p>
<p>The data show that more folks who were heavy partyers in high school are more likely to be so in college. BUT it is also true that a substantial number of folks who didn't drink heavily before college, and don't think they would when going off to school, end up doing so when placed in an environment where it is a norm.</p>
<p>And there are actually HUGE differences among schools, even some you'd think might on paper be similar. On average, 40% of college students ages 18-21 binge drank in the past two weeks. (No, I am not going to get into the definitions game again - if you want them, do a google search for "NIAAA February 2004 binge"). That average is higher among white students, and higher again among male students (and lower among racial and ethnic minorities and among females.) At most every school roughly 20% are abstainers. Which means that 40% are moderate (i.e., non-bingeing) drinkers. But a 10% movement in either direction will change the feel of the school dramatically. 50% bingeing means that a minority of students are moderate drinkers, or only half the school or less DOESN'T binge. That could be uncomfortable if you don't want to live among the bingers. You could decide not to drink, but you will still live in a milieu where bingeing is a constant, and you will feel it all around you. On the other hand, 10% less and the moderate drinkers well outnumber the bingers, and the social scene will feel substantially different. </p>
<p>For many students (too many!), college really ISN'T that much more than drinking. Culture matters. I suggest a THURSDAY overnight.</p>
<p>mini, you are the expert here. I'm sure you have provided this info in the past, but where can someone find the numbers for a particular school on binge vs mild drinking ?</p>
<p>Because of confidentiality agreements, neither the Harvard School of Public Health surveys nor the surveys out of Southern Illinois University publish data for individual schools, though all the schools have them. Under federal law, each school has an "alcohol/drug coordinator", often a dean, who has the data, which is ostensibly public information. But you have to ask for it.</p>
<p>Some colleges and universities - especially those involved in social norms marketing campaigns - publish their data openly, often in school publications. Others would prefer you didn't know.</p>
<p>But you really don't need the exact data. Wechsler has published, and it has been confirmed by other studies, that there are 8 conditions at schools associated with higher rates of binge drinking. They are: rural; coed; not church-related; students tend to be wealthier than average; student body is more Caucasian that average; heavy spectator sport participation; high percentage in frats/sororities; mostly residential. If you see schools with 6 or 7 or all 8 of these conditions, you can be pretty sure that binge drinking is higher than average. I know of a few schools with high binge rates that don't meet these qualifiers, but of the 200 or so schools I know, I don't think I know of a single one with 7 or 8 of the associations with lower than average binge drinking rates.</p>
<p>Mini might be onto something re: that Thursday visit, as that was always "Pub Night" at Lehigh. Don't know if it still is--</p>
<p>Aside from (but related to) the drinking culture is the popularity of the greek system. Fraternities and sororities still dominate the social life at Lehigh, long after many other schools decided to let them go. Something to consider.</p>
<p>Some of the biggest drinking schools are located "in the middle of nowhere" or in areas that make students prefer to stay on campus. You've probably seen other threads on CC where people have weighed in with their opinions on South Bethlehem. The school itself is beautiful, though, and I doubt she'd lack for things to do on campus. Good luck!</p>
<p>FYI - this is one of the big reasons I am a fan of campsus overnight visits and staying with students in dorms ... campuses can have very different feels/norms. While a student may do fine at a lot of schools ... some schools may be much better fits than others.</p>
<p>Excellent information mini. I've seen your alcolhol related posts before but those two posts were very concise and informative.</p>
<p>I live very close to Lehigh and know some kids that go there. None were big partyers and at High School were known more for their academic and music ability. From what they have said, they were able to find like minded people at college.</p>
<p>At my son's college (Ivy) the kids were known in high school for their academic abilities and other non-drinking talents. However, I personally met these intelligent, darling kids (I'm serious-these are all great kids) on move-in day in the dorm as they were proudly comparing fake IDs. The school is in the middle of a city, there is lots to do on and off campus, but drinking rules the social life. Yes, it starts on Thursday with a not-rare Wednesday to "get things started".</p>
<p>Aah, your daughter sounds like how I'm going to be when I head to college in....'14 :)</p>
<p>My son attends a large state university with a heavy spectator sports/drinking/partying culture. He has a medical condition that precludes the use of alcohol. He has been at that school for three years. He is fine. He has friends, and he finds things to do that don't involve alcohol.</p>
<p>On a large campus (say, 10,000 kids), even if only 10% of the population doesn't drink, that's still 1,000 kids.</p>
<p>One thing that I tell my kids is...unfortunately it's a fact of life that what you do when you are young can come back to bite you. A few little indiscretions here and there may not hurt you (hopefully), but you can be assured that, on day, someone will try to make them hurt you it it's in their best interest. If you don't believe me, just take a look at the typical political campaign.</p>
<p>So if you want to go out and do stuff that could haunt you one day...go ahead. But don't fool yourself...someone, somewhere, somehow will dredge all that crap up about you and it will be something that you have to deal with. Hopefully it will only be a stumbling block and not a career/election breaker. When I see all these kids on myspace/facebook with pictures of themselves drinking and in compromising positions plastered all over the place, I think....Good God, I hope you don't ever run for public office (or your spouse).</p>
<p>Doubleplay- the thing is, the people judging them are going to be used to this type of thing more than our generation and previous generations are. I don't think a kegstand picture from facebook is going to hurt the presidential candidate in 2024!</p>
<p>To return to JustaMom5465's specific concern...Every student review of Lehigh I read, positive and negative, mentions the drinking (driven by Greek system?) that goes on there. Lehigh has a good reputation and I would like to consider this school strongly, but I don't want to send my son there to face a population in a drunken stupor 3-4 nights a week. Can I hear from some current students/parents on this? Thanks.</p>
<p>I went to a school with a lot of drinking. I had a friend who did not drink but he always volunteered to be the designated driver. He was incredibly popular and was always invited to the parties and outings. </p>
<p>He always found others there who were not drinking and he had a great time.</p>
<p>crawfe,
Unfortunately, what you are going to hear is going to be, most likely, anecdotal. </p>
<p>Even the "numbers" can play tricks- the larger the university, the more drinking there will be (but also, the less drinking there will be, on the flip side). At the local big-U, you might find that 20,000 of 30,000 students drink on a regular basis. But that leaves 10,000 who don't. At a small college you might find it harder to find non-drinkers that you want to hang with, even though there is actually less per capita drinking. Confused yet??</p>
<p>The best information would be to talk to other students who you can trust to tell the truth about campus life, and spend a weekend.</p>
<p>What I've always wondered (ever since the dark ages in college), is how some kids get wrapped up in the social/partying scene and lose it, and how some can handle keeping their grades and studying in focus (whether they party or not). </p>
<p>I have 2 nephews who were raised in a very strict environment where they really never had the opportunity to make decisions and were always told what to do. (of course, I'm not critical of how my sister raised her kids---LOL!! Anyway, neither returned to college after their freshman years---and both were bonafide alcoholics when they returned home (obviously, still are, but at least one has his act together now). Why did that happen to them, but their sister stayed on course (with some partying interjected), and went on to graduate from law school? I saw the same happen with my own friends when I was in school.</p>
<p>I wonder what it costs to have a steady drnking habit on campus. If it adds up to $15 weekly for 40 weeks, that's $600. You can take a nice vacation for that money instead. '</p>
<p>I agree with the 'anecdotal' comment--
Everyone handles their college scene differently.
Some kids drank alot in HS and will continue to do so, others never did, but start in college, while others will manage to have a good time without drinking in excess, or at all, etc... </p>
<p>Back to the OP, I think Lehigh has a lot to offer, and I like what we've read so far about Alice Gast (the new president). The school certainly continues to grow in many positive ways. To us, the large greek scene was the big question mark. Some people love it, others don't. ED is a big decision. It would be great if you could visit her top choices one more time. If her other choices are say, Lafayette, Colgate, etc. they might (might) have somewhat comparable social scenes.</p>
<p>Re: cost of drinking habit-- when it comes to frat parties, it's probably free-- for the girls, that is.</p>
<p>I think the area around Lehigh is becoming more inviting and the students may not feel as isolated. I was in Bethlehem today with two friends and we drove around Lehigh. One of my friends husbands works there and he goes off campus every day for lunch. There are quite a few restaurants in the area and they are expanding the ones that will take the Lehigh pre-loaded debit card. There seems to be much swifter punishment of student drinking. I found this article about a program to combat campus drinking at Lehigh. <a href="http://www3.lehigh.edu/News/news_story.asp?iNewsID=620%5B/url%5D">http://www3.lehigh.edu/News/news_story.asp?iNewsID=620</a></p>
<p>I have to admit I'm a big fan of the town of Bethlehem though I prefer the North side, closer to Moravian College.</p>