Campus Life - Drinking vs Not Drinking

Parents Forum
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<p>Even for a guy a drinking habit isn't expensive if you don't sap on Grey Goose everyday. The cheapest handle (40 shots) of vodka/rum you can get is usually around 10 dollars (the store brand), so even if you're drinking 3 nights a week (Thursday, Friday, Saturday) and let's just assume were dealing with a kid who drinks 10 shots on a typical "party night" (a high or low estimate depending on how big the kid is and how heavily he's been drinking recently) then your running at most about $8 a week on the habit, not counting free alcohol from parties and such.</p>

<p>At this point I would say I might spend about $10 average per week since I drink beer which is a bit more expensive and can only stand to drink Captain Morgan's for my rum since I drank Kappy's brand rum for a solid three months freshman year. I've never had trouble paying for it.</p>

<p>As far as the political campaign/job thing goes I'll eliminate any and all drinking pictures on facebook once I get a job, most people know to do this at one point. Until then I mostly keep it private, except at the beginning of a semester since incoming freshman want to get to know the people at the school they'll be attending and so I don't want them to not be able to access my facebook.</p>

42

<p>There was a girl in the Lehigh forum who posted similar questions and I answered them the best I could. I'm going to be a sophomore at Lehigh this Fall and can't wait to get back...</p>

<p>This is what I posted for her:</p>

<p>I don't understand how a school's social scene can be COMPLETELY dominated by the greek system. You generally think of partying and drinking when you think of a greek system. Are you expecting Lehigh kids to be partying and drinking during all of their free time? While partying is in fact a big part of Lehigh, you have to realize that there will be tons of time where partying is not going to be an acceptable social activity. You aren't going to be drinking at 4pm on a Friday afternoon, are you? Trust me, you will find things to do around campus. "chillin out" and watching movies, playing video games, and such will definitely be a big part of your social life, regardless of how big the greek scene is. Bethlehem isn't a major city, but I'm sure you could find things to do there. We also have an under-utilized Zoellner Arts Center with many performances and such.</p>

<p>What do students usually do on a Saturday afternoon? Or after a long day of classes? Is there a student hub that attracts the student body to hang out? How often do students venture out into the town?"</p>

<p>Saturday's start slow. Usually it starts off with a late lunch with a bunch of people from your hallway. There are two food choices available during the weekends on campus - Pandini's (pizza) or Rathbone Dining Hall. After that, each to his own... people do homework in their rooms or in the lounges... others play videogames.. others get involved in volunteering around South Bethlehem.. some take the campus shuttle to the Lehigh Valley mall... or play intramural sports... In addition, during the fall football games are pretty well attended. Next year Lehigh-Laf is going to be at LEHIGH, which will be awesome. Riding a school bus over a mountain with your college friends can be a priceless experience to say the least. I'd say the normal Saturday afternoon is probably going to be studying and doing homework around your dorm, as well as socializing with friends. </p>

<p>I'd say students hang around their dorms a lot. As for a hub, there's an on-campus diner called the Hawk's Nest, home of incredibly greasy food. There's a lot of comedy shows and concerts at the Hawk's Nest throughout the year. Plus, it's open until really late so it's the place to go after a long night on the Hill. There's also Ulrich Student Center, which is where the mail boxes are... there are tons of sofas and a food store here, so you can chill out here in between classes and such.</p>

<p>As for going off-campus, it really depends on the individual. As a freshmen, you won't have a car. Plus, Lehigh is literally on a mountain, and the dorms are way above the town. This makes going into Bethlehem somewhat of a hassle. Plus I wouldn't exactly call either S. Bethlehem or N. Bethlehem a college town at all. If you really want to go shopping, you definitely need to take the campus shuttle to the Lehigh Valley mall. Also, right below campus are bus stops to NYC and Philly. I know a lot of students who utilize these buses (about 30$ round trip) on the weekends. Takes about 2 hours to NYC.</p>

<p>The thing is though, its really difficult to make a generalization about college life. What do you like doing with your own time on a Saturday afternoon? You'll probably be doing something similar at Lehigh as well. Good luck, hope to see you in the fall!</p>

<p>I wasn't a partier in high school but I did my fair share of drinking and partying during freshmen year. I know lots of kids who don't drink, and lots of kids who drink a lot. What I like to tell parents when they ask what is it like going to the #17 party school, I always like to point out that we are ranked #33 nationally by USNews and World Report.</p>

<p>I never had to pay for alcohol at Lehigh parties. I sometimes kept alcohol in my room, but not that much. I think Lehigh gains its party reputation from not because of its greek system, but how the greek system works. I find that as a freshmen especially, the parties can be very open as long as you do your cards right. Alcohol at parties are of course free. I know kids who go to different schools where if you aren't in the greek system, you are practically banished from the partying scene. Not so much at Lehigh.</p>

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<p>Here is an old thread with a lot of relevant comments:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/archive/index.php/t-49766.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/archive/index.php/t-49766.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I think that schools with a very active Greek scene will have more of a gravitational pull toward the kegs. Staying independant will make being conservative about partying easier in some respects, but I personally would not go to a big Greek school if my interests were elsewhere. If the social life on a campus is Greek-dominated, then why go if you are not into that? And drinking is a big part of that culture. Sure, you can be in a sorority or a fraternity and not be a big drinker, but I bet on average you will drink more than if you didn't join. </p>

<p>Another point to consider is location. Beautiful, rural campuses don't offer much to do outside of drinking and partying. Yes, there are exceptions (especially at non-Greek schools). But some might say that if you are in the middle of PA, you can go cow tipping or you can go party.</p>

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<p>Just another comment--a friend's daughter is going to college in the fall (small LAC)--she has lots of info she's given (& will provide about herself) to make a decision re: a roommate. That would seem helpful--making sure you have roomates who don't drink. I remember my roomates being a big influence on me during my first year of college (when you are susceptible to lots of new ideas/experiences). Btw, I attended a small school in PA, also (we came up w/lots of things to do on Fri/Sat nights other than drink...sports, etc.) :-)</p>

<p>Also--depending on her religious background, she might look (as another poster suggested) into some fun, religious-based groups (e.g. Fellowship of Christian athletes). It's a nice place to meet people who are fun but have more conservative social outlook.</p>

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<p>"What I've always wondered (ever since the dark ages in college), is how some kids get wrapped up in the social/partying scene and lose it, and how some can handle keeping their grades and studying in focus (whether they party or not)."</p>

<p>First, you should know that the vast majority of alcoholics in the U.S. are working. Some are in very high positions of power. Alcoholism doesn't mean one is stupid, just alcoholic. For many, the health impacts are cumulative over time, and heavy alcohol use contributes to diabetes, hypertension, heart irryhtmias, heart attacks, stomach and esophageal cancer, chronic liver disease and cirrhosis, kidney failure, falls, automobile accidents, and a much longer list of health conditions, often leading to earlier mortality.</p>

<p>Secondly, genetics. There is no clearcut direct association between college binge drinking and later alcoholism. Rather, a certain percentage of college binge drinkers also become heavy drinkers (two or more drinks nearly everyday, or 3-4 binges every two weeks). There is a close association between heavy drinking and alcoholism (generally speaking, roughly 60% of college heavy drinkers will become alcohol dependent at some point in their adult lives - so at a school where 20% are heavy drinkers, figure 12% are either current or future alcoholics.) Genetics plays a huge role (scientists tend to estimate between 40%-60% of the alcohol dependency risk), and we are learning much more about that all the time (we have already discovered 7 alleles for alcohol dependency.) </p>

<p>Both race and gender play a role: percentagewise, there are far fewer African-American, Asian, and Hispanic alcoholics than whites, and fewer females than males. Put another way: (really a restatement of what I've written earlier): a white, upper-middle class male, at a coed, non-religious, rural school, with a strong Greek presence, and heavy spectator sports participation is at significantly elevated risk. It is by no means automatic, there are other things to do, and personal choices to make, but the majority of white upper middle class males in these environments do choose to binge, including those who had no plans to do before they entered college.</p>

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<p>^ Gosh, that is so depressing isn't it?</p>

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<p>^Great post, mini.</p>

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<p>I have had 3 children go through or are in the college experience. All handled the drinking differently. </p>

<p>The oldest, I believe, thoroughly embraced the social/party experience. </p>

<p>The middle child (only girl) did not drink until she turned 21 and then has done so with more maturity and restraint than I believe she would have done at 18. Interestingly, after she started to partake, she also started to gain weight. So now at almost 23, she drinks rarely--just like chocolate desserts are a rare treat. She often functioned as a DD and like someone posted earlier, everyone loves to have a friend they can depend on (not just for driving, but also just to watch out for them).</p>

<p>The youngest, almost 21, drinks sparingly because it is not in his "nutrition plan". He doesn't want to negate his hard work-outs or his healthy eating plan by bingeing on alcohol. His drinking friends seem to have no problem with him not drinking, but he says sometimes he gets really tired of watching them make idiots of themselves.</p>

<p>I remember being in college and carrying around a soda or a cup of beer for hours just so that another would not be pressed in my hands. No one seemed to care what or how much you were drinking--only that you had something. I just never liked alcohol much and couldn't see making myself drink something that I didn't want. It never had an effect on my social life.</p>

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<p>I remember that too...nobody really cared whether you drank or not. You could carry an empty cup around....my grandmother told a very funny story about being self-conscious about some aspect of her appearance or behavior and her mom snapped "nobody's looking at you anyway." Parenting is different now and I'm sure we're all sure that we'd traumatize our kids if we said that..but the fact is that in high school or college people are still pretty self-involved and the non-drinkers can blend in if they can refrain from calling attention to the fact that they aren't drinking. </p>

<p>That being said it's really TEDIOUS to hang out with drunks. DD doesn't drink and she's very popular as a DD and gets invited to all the parties, and her problem is that after the first hour it's not fun or interesting...people are too wasted.</p>

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<p>I'm struck by the concept that there's "nothing to do" at rural schools. Two of my older kids have graduated rural, non-Greek schools; one of those colleges emphasized sports, the other not. </p>

<p>I'd like to suggest to concerned parents with kids who want an alternative: consider involvement with Theater as an EC. Rehearsals are held most evenings; productions are on Th/Fri/Sat nights. It takes up nearly ALL their social time and it is very sociable in itself, but attracts kids with enough work ethic to stay sober for the sake of the "team" and the shows. </p>

<p>My kids have friends in many circles. They said that, on their way to rehearsals, they'd "stop in" on the campus parties early in the evening, say "hi" to everyone while holding a soda, stay an hour or less, and then be on to their rehearsal or performance. This kept them from having to watch people turn into "idiots" as a poster above mentioned, as the night wore on. </p>

<p>Rehearsals are social but task-oriented; you get to meet new people all the time; it's comfortable because everyone's busy-ish but not stressed; there's some downtime because the director's attention is often on one small group of people while others are making progress on their task at their own pace, so there's social chat inbetween all the work. It's not "intense" work until the week before the performance, and that just builds group energy and bonding. </p>

<p>After a few hours of a rehearsal, and especially after a performance, the cast wants to hang with each other so goes off for ice-cream or if they go off for a drink, the evening's mostly done. Once or twice my kids say they returned to the big parties, but by then everyone looked so wasted it was a ridiculous fit and they left, feeling they had lost nothing by spending their evenings the way they had.</p>

<p>To be in a theater production, there's no need to be a great actor. The productions always are needful of volunteers for backstage and technical helpers. This can mean everything from working on costumes, props, set design and construction, lighting. If the school has a Theater department, there are courses to take about any of these endeavors (stagecraft). It can be a lifetime enjoyment once you're working and in the community, with community volunteer theaters. </p>

<p>After the performance, usually on Saturday nights and sometimes also Friday nights, the cast has its own cast party for cast and crew. Girlfriends/boyfriends are welcome. Those have liquor but again, the group is bonded from this long experience together, so there's a lot of retalking the highponts of the production. Theater is VERY social and provides a great feeling to work together as a team. </p>

<p>I think one thing that may be happening on campus is that the science classes meet early in the morning and by day; the sports teams operate by day; so those two groups have "nothing to do" that's scheduled on weekend evenings. The OPPOSITE schedule is in place for the performing arts: theater, dance, music, improvisational comedy... I want to emphasize that you don't have to have tremendous stage talent to volunteer to be involved in productions backstage, or you might find you can play a small role and do backstage work. This can satisfy a large need for social contact, take up weekend evenings happily, make you part of an exciting focus on campus. "I'm working with the X production..." is a great t-shirt or icebreaker; it gives you status. </p>

<p>People have it absolutely wrong to think the performance people are not responsible; they work harder than anyone and don't let each other down. Drinking has no part to play in all that, except after a big job well done to unwind together. I'm sure there are some individual bad stories as well, there are alkie actors, and not every production is harmonious. In all, however, it's a real alternative to drinking your way through college as a social life.</p>

<p>I didn't come up with this; my kids communicated all of the above, in bits and pieces, over the years. If a kid might be interested, encourage them to contact the Theater department for a schedule of shows and auditions. Best are the department-run shows because the faculty won't let them be bad productions so there's a push there from the top. But there are also numerous student-run shows, unofficial and more numerous throughout the school year. For these, stay alert to student websites and bulletin boards, although the Theater departments will generally post things on their bulletin boards that are student-produced. Try to get in early at the time AUDITIONS are called to express interest in volunteering. By the time a show goes up on a flyer with performance dates, it's usually well-advanced and has its volunteers already. So go to auditions or email the director to volunteer. </p>

<p>Maybe other parents know of alternatives like this? Didn't mean to hog the board; guess I'm passionate.</p>

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<p>There are some great thoughts on here.</p>

<p>First off, I love Mombot's story: "a very funny story about being self-conscious about some aspect of her appearance or behavior and her mom snapped "nobody's looking at you anyway." Parenting is different now and I'm sure we're all sure that we'd traumatize our kids if we said that..." Totally my kind of parenting. :)</p>

<p>Second, she is so right about it being tedious hanging with the drunk kids. That is the #1 issue for kids who don't drink. Sure, no one is forcing you to drink, but are you having FUN? If not, what are your other options? Important stuff.</p>

<p>Third, Paying3tuitions is onto something about theater groups. Son #2 hangs with a theater gang, and they are seriously the most wholesome kids I've ever known. I sure hope he hooks up with that crowd in college. (I think he will.) Excellent observation about it being an evening/weekend activity. Do other parents find that true as well?</p>

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<p>More on the above topics--
I always regret being too shy/chicken to join the theater kids in HS. It was especially silly because what I was most interested in was working on the sets.</p>

<p>I do think location of a school can affect social life, because there will be different options. We know of a local boy whose school choices were limited partly by their access to skiing, hockey and outdoor sports. S's school is located near Boston, which is great, but it's in an urban location, and as a runner he also would have loved a little more rural-ness.</p>

<p>But - if kids don't have a club/sport/niche, and they don't find things to do off campus, then there's the possibility that the most popular option is to spend the weekend drinking and partying. I always figured college students would be too wrapped up in studies to overindulge- until I went to college.</p>

<p>And ditto on low tolerance level for hanging out with drunks. As an adult, mine is close to zero, no matter who they are.</p>

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<p>I believe there are very very few places where a kid who doesn't drink will be ostracized or isolated for his/her refusal to drink. I also believe that there are many many kids who didn't drink high school AT ALL, i.e. were known to be sober, teased for it, always the DD etc., who do drink in college. And not because they are made to. It is, in fact, just in the environment.</p>

<p>Then of those who are not coerced in college, do so anyway, some deal with it well - socially and academically - some deal with it less well - socially and academically - and some deal with it terribly or even tragically.</p>

<p>If you have a kid who doesn't drink in high school the odds are higher that he or she will drink in college than that he or she will be shut out for not drinking. I recommend discussions of the topic that include the possibilities that your abstainer kid will become a partaker. Alcohol education is not very advanced and there's a lot to tell kids if they are going to drink that their peers will not know.</p>

<p>Now if you are a strict parent whose approach includes forbidding activities etc., unfortunately I have no guidance for you as that is not my area of expertise.</p>

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<p>


You are so right, Alumother. Many schools, mine included, require students to take AlcoholEdu, a course that teaches about alcohol prevention. The thing is, most of the kids who take the course aren't interested in alcohol prevention. I know more than a few times I have seen people get sick, pass out, and be generally unresponsive due to overconsumption of alcohol. The question in this instance has always been "What do we do??!?!?!!" No student wants to have to call an ambulance for their drunk friend for fear of retribution, so we often turn to homemade remedies that don't really work. The best program a college could institute is not how to avoid drinking (most intelligent students know how to do that), but how to deal with drinking.</p>

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<p>^^^I second that.
The scary thing is, if a kid needs emergency treatment because of alcohol consumption, he will probably have to check himself into the emergency room, because no one else is going to put their hides on the line. Many kids wouldn't dare take their frat brother or roommate in, for fear of getting caught and put on probation, or worse. It's sort of like the back-alley abortion thing- when you make it illegal, people end up dying because of neglect. The best thing campuses could do IMO is take away the disincentive for seeking quick, immediate, potentially life-saving treatment when a student has had too much to drink.</p>

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<p>"Many kids wouldn't dare take their frat brother or roommate in, for fear of getting caught and put on probation, or worse. It's sort of like the back-alley abortion thing- when you make it illegal, people end up dying because of neglect. The best thing campuses could do IMO is take away the disincentive for seeking quick, immediate, potentially life-saving treatment when a student has had too much to drink."</p>

<p>There are colleges with "Good Samaritan" provisions in their Honor Codes. That is, if you know someone appears to be in trouble and don't make the call, it is YOU who are put on probation, etc., not the drinker. </p>

<p>There really are two distinct (though connected) outcomes of campus drinking. The first are the acute outcomes usually associated with binge drinking: alcohol poisoning, blackouts, vomiting, property destruction, the 70,000 rapes that occur on campuses every year, the feces in the sinks and hallways and on the walls (that's my alma mater), etc. Then there are the longer-term chronic outcomes associated with heavy drinking (i..e regular drinking 2 or more drinks a day, or consistent bingeing), which are associated with alcohol dependence and the range of outcomes cited earlier. I had a college roommate - and a highly intelligent one - who was an alcoholic who NEVER binged in social situations, but he needed a drink before 11 a.m. to keep going. </p>

<p>Because of genetic propensity, it is really true that, for some, NO drinking is acceptable. That's sad, because it would seem (on the surface at any rate) to be easier to deal with bingeing, etc., and prevention of acute consequences. But for a large portion of the population - especially among white males - simply reducing binge drinking on campus really isn't sufficient. </p>

<p>These are educational institutions. They all claim to have departments of psychology, and experts in genetics. Sometimes, I wish they'd act like it. Couldn't they at least have the students draw a family tree?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The scary thing is, if a kid needs emergency treatment because of alcohol consumption, he will probably have to check himself into the emergency room, because no one else is going to put their hides on the line. Many kids wouldn't dare take their frat brother or roommate in, for fear of getting caught and put on probation, or worse. It's sort of like the back-alley abortion thing- when you make it illegal, people end up dying because of neglect. The best thing campuses could do IMO is take away the disincentive for seeking quick, immediate, potentially life-saving treatment when a student has had too much to drink.

[/quote]
I also know drinkers themselves who would rather have their friends take care of them, rather than go to a hospital. I go to an ivy, and the fear of parent dissapointment combined with administrative punishment is so strong that even when someone suggests calling an ambulance, the reaction from everyone (drinker included, if they are responsive) is a resounding "NO!" </p>

<p>I think it would really help if colleges develop, like you said, a policy in which one is not administratively punished after seeking medical attention and parents are not called (although, this is very unlikely because drinking underage is illegal)...</p>

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<p>AlcoholEdu is mandatory at my school. That being said, most of my friends would leave the lectures running at night while they went out to drink.</p>

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<p>As I have mentioned before, my son, soon to be a senior in college, cannot drink alcohol for medical reasons.</p>

<p>He has never been ostracized at college for not drinking. But I do not know what his experience would have been like if he had chosen to join a fraternity.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
AlcoholEdu is mandatory at my school. That being said, most of my friends would leave the lectures running at night while they went out to drink.

[/quote]
I did the same thing. I let Alcoholedu run, while I went out and partied (I didn't drink though)</p>