<p>Well, after reading people's stats on some of these threads, I've become a bit concerned that my own high school is not adequately preparing me for the college admissions process.</p>
<p>First, my school only offers 2 AP courses - Calc AB and English. Also, they have it scheduled so that one cannot take both AP Calc and French 4, so I may have to give up French in my senior year due to circumstances.</p>
<p>Also, we have very few extracurricular activities. There is sports, speech/debate, and a couple service clubs, but no way to indicate a passion through EC's. The guidance office doesn't know anything about summer programs or anything like that. Students see their counselors only once a year to schedule classes.</p>
<p>We have the opportunity to take college courses for high school credit or something like that, but no one seems to know how this is done, including the guidance office, and no one informs students that the option exists. I could have been taking community college courses since freshman year, but I had no idea at the time. Also, if you choose to take certain college courses in place of high school ones, it hurts your class rank.</p>
<p>Now for my question. Will colleges be understanding of the fact that I and others from my school took every opportunity available to us, and we couldn't really control the quality of our school/guidance counselor? It's not like I'm in an inner city - I live in a well-off suburb in Ohio which supposedly has the best school in the area (I'd hate to see the other schools, then). But will colleges understand that certain circumstances were out of our control, or will students from more competitive high schools be given preference?</p>
<p>My Ds went to a rural public HS with relatively low stats, and both are going to Harvard. I'm aware that H is very attuned to finding candidates for admission who have risen above limitations imposed by their geographical, socioeconomic or educational settings. Evidence of any extra effort that you've gone to in order to supplement your public school's offerings could constitute a source of application assets that isn't available to students from top schools.</p>
<p>There are different ways admissions may look at your school. If there are few ECs available, they will look to see if you have sought out opportunities outside of school and/or if you have begun clubs on your own in school. If there are few APs available, they will look closely at your grades and other test scores, but remember there are people out there who have taken AP exams on their own by studying on their own time.</p>
<p>Yes, you are at a disadvantage because your school is not as "competitive" as some other schools. It's not your fault, but it is a fact.</p>
<p>Admissions always view you within context - if you have taken all the APs you can, if you have been as involved in in-school activities as you can, they will understand that. So, you still have a chance. But I would apply to a few safeties because there are students who have gone to very competitive schools and done stellar in those environments, and some students go out of their way to create opportunities for themselves/opportunities outside of school.</p>
<p>The AP/Fr. 4 conflict is definitely something you should ask your counselor to note in their rec, and the college course/high school course rank thing. Also consider writing a note to admissions yourself explaining these same issues. </p>
<p>I strongly suggest you do NOT write to admissions about a lack of EC opportunities or problems with communication about college courses within your school. This is because it might come across as "whining." </p>
<p>In conclusion, colleges will most definitely understand some things are out of your control; that does not change the fact you will be at a disadvantage; that, in turn, does not mean you should not apply, just be cautious about where you apply to.</p>
<p>You should definitely speak to your counselor about all of these issues. Communication is key. If they are not receptive, then you may want to ask admissions.</p>
<p>So to beat the obstacles, I can self-study for some additional AP's and get involved in more out-of-school activities? That's easy enough. I'm also thinking of taking some college courses, but I might just take ones that don't replace HS classes, for the sake of my class rank.</p>
<p>I spoke to my counselor about the Fr. 4/Calc conflict, and she gave me a quick response about "they'll look into it" so I don't know how much help that will be. I'm really hoping they resolve it in the next year, because French is more important to my potential career than Calc, but I need to take every AP offered to solidify my rank/GPA.</p>
<p>Yes, that's exactly what you can (should) do! </p>
<p>My school seems like it has a lot of ECs, but no one does anything in them, so I started two clubs of my own and volunteer on my own outside of school. It's simple as long as you have some friends who are willing to do it with you/with some googling you can find different opportunities.</p>
<p>I hope your scheduling conflict is resolved favorably.</p>
<p>I've been starting the process of founding a French Club at my school - we used to have clubs for every language, but they've been totally inactive for maybe a decade now. I'm trying to "revive" the once-existent club.</p>
<p>Where would a good starting point be for out-of-school activities? Unfortunately my family isn't religious, so church isn't an option. I'd particularly like to get involved in some kind of political or law-oriented organization - for instance, how does one go about volunteering for a political campaign?</p>
<p>A bad high school can also be an advantage.</p>
<p>Let's take a hypothetical student at a very rigorous public high school in an affluent area that sends about 10 students each year to Top 10 ranked colleges. 70% of this HS's grads go on to a four year college. This student is really smart, but not brilliant. This student studies 5 hours per night, takes about 5-6 AP classes (while the hardcore students take 8-11), and by Sr. year is ranked 17/220. This student does not get the "most rigorous courses available" from the couseling office attached to their transcript. SATs are 680/700. Lots of kids from this school score above 700 on both sections -- these high scorers take the test at least twice, and most have taken a prep course. Assume ECs, recs, and essays are all "very good".</p>
<p>The described student from this high school would not likely gain admission to a Top 10 program. They have not set themselves apart from the other students in test scoring, gpa, or course rigor. </p>
<p>Now, take the same student at an apathetic, poorly funded high school in a lower-middle class neighborhood in the same city. This school hasn't sent a student to a Top 10 college in several years. Only 35% of the graduates of this HS go on to a 4 yr. college. The top SAT scorers from this school barely break 650/650 because of the poor class preparation during 9-11 grades. This student <em>does</em> get the "most rigourous courses available" stamp from the counseling office. IF this same student were to continue to study 5 hours per night in a school where 2 hours is considered a serious student, and pursues academic opportunities outside the HS, and scores the same 680/700 on the SATs, and gets GREAT recs b/c of how much he/she stood out from all the other students and the leadership and courage that demonstrated, they have a good shot at a TOP 10 college.</p>
<p>So, my conclusion is that since YOU have taken it upon yourself to try to do better than what is expected at your HS, you have a shot at a TOP 10 school, assuming your test scores are acceptable.</p>
<p>I should also mention that there are Top 50 schools where there is a HUGE advantage to being in a less competitive school. The U of Texas has a formulaic "top 10% of the graduating class" rule. The top 10% student at a bad high school gets in over the top 15% at a very competitive high school. It creates some difficult decision about transferring to a lousy school for some Texas families whose kids are not top 10% at the competitive HS, but would be top 2% at a lousy HS.</p>
<p>DunninLa makes some good points on how it can be effective to go to a "bad" high school, but I'll use my high school as an example instead:
in my school 88% of the kids go to a four year college after graduation (60% go to the local state school)
100% pass the state test standardized test on the first try...the median ACT is a 27, and the median SAT out of 1600 is a 1280
..yet...because we have so few kids every year in our graduating class (about 45-50), are school is not known to top colleges: its not a private school, but a small run-down school in a slightly poor area
other schools in our area have at least 5000 kids in each graduating class. these schools are in advantageous areas, and they are public schools. They have APs, etc. Their scores are much worse in terms of averages, but because they have such huge class sizes, they also have a lot of smart kids. The smart kids (they'll have like 30 valedictorions per year) will go to Harvard, etc. But the kids in the middle of the class won't even go to college...
Therefore, the point I'm trying to make is that no matter how "good" your school seems to be--it seems to be more of a matter of whether your school is on the radar or not--the big schools are on the radar even though they might not be good overall, but they have more standouts every year than our school does simply because they are huge schools.</p>
<p>Well, my school isn't huge but it isn't super tiny, either. We've got about 250 students in each graduating class, and maybe 2-3 kids go to top 25 schools every year. Also, it's not that the area is disadvantaged in anyway - it just happens that people around here are so - I don't know - apathetic? The school just encourages this mindset around here that average is good enough. It's up to dedicated students to explore opportunities other than the local state colleges.</p>
<p>Hm, I can see how in-school ECs can be difficult to organize w/250 students per graduating class (my school averages 660 in a 3-year high school, and it still feels like there's isn't enough energy sometimes). I understand how difficult it can be if the community is somewhat stagnant when it comes to education. My old high school was like that.</p>
<p>When I talked about out-of-school ECs I was thinking along the lines of hobbies/volunteer work. I volunteer as a web content writer for a Seattle nonprofit; it's hard but I've learned a lot about grassroots activism. I love writing, so I enter in writing contests and that's helped me in the "Honors" section; I like computer graphics and I've been active in local art fairs; play piano, have a great relationship with my tutor, but rarely enter in competitions because I don't have the time.</p>
<p>So, I would say, just go forward with what you're interested in. Google internships or volunteer work.</p>
<p>I actually think it can be a big advantage, you're "a big fish in a small pond". Generally, admissions officers at the most selective colleges want to see that you've distinguished yourself from your peers. Self-studying APs when you only have access to two in your school, scoring high on the SAT's at a school with a low average SAT score and starting new clubs in a school that has little in the way of extracurricular offerings is going to be a major plus in the application process for you. Obviously though, the disadvantage to uncompetitive schools is that you won't be stimulated enough and you'll become "a regular" kid who is apathetic about high school. But it seems to me that you're not like this. Good Luck.</p>
<p>Regarding Post #1:
If you mean "bad high school" as in limited activities and courses formally
organized by the school......you are in a terrific advantageous position
if you turn the "badness" into "leadership+effort" on your part to overcome
the surrounding constraints. It is relatively easier to stand out in a "bad"
school than in a very good one.</p>
<p>example 1: few APs; organize AP study groups; self-study APs and register
for some of them alongside friends (AP ES, PSYCH, MACRO, MICRO are some
relatively easier to self-study APs)</p>
<p>example 2: few clubs and orgs; start activities,get them officially recognized
or at least get informal recognition fo your spending time and effort with
these activties from your GC and recommenders.</p>
<p>example 3: few awards and competitions; there are numerous opps for you
to particiapte in nation-wide contests for writing, arts and science.</p>
<p>If however, you decide to take the easy way out and say that you
have exhausted everything the school has to offer......you need to
wake up and look around you on the internet. There are thousands of
peers who are in similar situations such as yourself. A few of them-
those that will get admitted to the top schools- are sucessful in overcoming
these soft barriers.</p>
<p>What will you bring to your new college- a gung ho attitude or an expectation
to accept the status quo?</p>
<p>hmm, just read what I wrote....serious stuff; need</a> to lighten up
Also, remember there is no one shooting other people at your school and probably no metal detectors for the
usual maiming instruments either....so maybe your school is not "bad-bad"?</p>
<p>Yeah, my school is definitely not shooting-bad. ;) It's safe to the point of boredom.</p>
<p>I really like the idea of an AP study group - I have a bunch of friends who I can ask (force) to form one with me.</p>
<p>Also, does anyone know of some specific competitions or awards I could enter into? There's National Merit, obviously, but are there any really good programs you could think of that don't necessarily have to be accessed through the school?</p>
<p>Not really a disadvantage, unless you didn't make anything out of it. I'm simply reiterating what other have said so I guess it's moot. If you've worked hard from the circumstances available to you and made the most out of opportunities you'll be fine.</p>
<p>hey i am an rising senior and i have similar problems high school wise. My school offers only 5 APs, of which i have will have taken two of by next year due to schedule conflicts. College prep wise, i have been in the AVID program for 3 years since i switched to this high school. Most of my peers jsut want to graduate to go to APSU our local state U, but avid has opened my eyes to all the great colleges and univeristies in our nation. i wish to pursue a career in business (still deciding between finance, internationl B, and entrepreneurship), but find my school lacking in the classes i see prospects from here taking to get into the top business schools. i wouldnt say that im poor, but its just me my brother and my mom (im sure u have heard the SAME story a million times lol). Is it too late for me to turn into a good potential prospect for a top U? btw my act score is 28, without studying.</p>
<p>p.s. how exactly do i take the ap test if my school doesnt offer it? and what study books can i use?</p>
<p>^ I'm also curious as to the exact process of taking AP tests in classes the school doesn't offer? I'm only a rising junior, but I was always under the impression that AP tests were given during the school day sometime in late May? Anyone care to elaborate?</p>
<p>Also, to the above poster, if you have strong grades (I'm thinking 3.7ish or higher) and can raise your ACT score a bit, I think you could have a shot - colleges should be understanding if you come from a low income family, and by the sound of most replies to this thread, they will understand the lack of opportunities offered by your school as well. Damn scheduling conflicts. They'll bite you in the butt every time.</p>
<p>I'm not sure my school will administer AP tests in subjects it doesn't offer classes in. Or is there a way around that? Pardon my unfamiliarity with AP's in general - the only ones my school offers are for seniors only, so I've yet to take one.</p>
<p>My school does IB so people who take AP tests go to another local high school. Sometimes it is held at a community college. As long as you get your counselor to set you up within the deadlines, you're good. It's not very complicated, from what I've seen (esp in comparison to setting up IB exams lol!) Just give your counselor plenty of heads up time. It seems like seniors do do exams so he/she would be familiar with the process.</p>
<p>It's ok that you're not familiar with AP. It's good that you're trying to get the most you can out of your education.</p>
<p>Judging by what I've seen from my counselors in terms of competitive and expedience, I should probably notify them now of the tests I'll next to take in almost two years ;)</p>