Can a freshman take individual IB classes?

Parents Forum
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<p>If your D can get the AP Physics and Chem in 9th-10th, I wouldn’t bother with the IB SLs in those areas. </p>

<p>For someone who is talented in math, taking some programming courses would develop some useful skills (and makes one darned employable at an early age for good $$!). Good programming is heavily algorithm-driven and requires using math in different ways. It’s a good way to stretch the brain and a useful tool for scientists. (S1’s program required two years of programming and the AP Comp Sci AB exam. REALLY useful to have programming skills if one is doing research!) </p>

<p>If she is walking into 9th grade having already completed all the math the school offers, you need to insist that the school make accommodations in a way that gives her the same chance to learn as every other student in the school, respects her intellect and recognizes her age. Telling her she can take classes after school but they won’t count on her transcript is NOT a solution. How do they propose to graduate her four years from now without any math on her transcript?</p>

<p>More thoughts on IB –
– The full IB diploma program involves courses in six different categories – Language A1 (English in the US), mathematics, science, social studies, foreign language and an elective. The elective can be another one of the other five subjects or music/art/theatre/comp sci/econ/philosophy, etc., depending on what the school offers. </p>

<p>– IB requires a breadth of knowledge across a wide range of fields. While AP exams allow students to cherry-pick and take only those exams that speak to their strengths, IB pushes students to their limits across all the disciplines. No hiding from one’s weaknesses in the full diploma program!</p>

<p>– There is also a Theory of Knowledge course taken in junior and the first half of senior year, and the Extended Essay (4,000 word term paper), plus CAS (Creativity, Action and Service) hours, which students start earning junior year. </p>

<p>–The SL foreign language requirement assumes a student has gotten to Level V. </p>

<p>– At S2’s school, the only way the IB kids had time for the arts was to choose one as the IB elective. Between the IB course requirements and state-mandated courses (health, tech ed, fine arts, PE, etc.) there were not many free electives over the course of four years, and that was with a seven-period day. </p>

<p>– The really good math students at S2’s IB took Multivariable Calc, not Math HL. MV was tougher. </p>

<p>Ultimately, my math guy did the seriously accelerated stuff in math and CS (to a lesser extent physics, but since it involved math, this was a good thing) which kept him engaged though not always fully challenged, and did honors and APs in English/social sciences. Did several wide-ranging ECs (not all math/CS related), had friends, had the space he needed to mature. Discovered that he liked history and government, much to his surprise. He spent a lot of time outside of school doing programming and CS research, and he spent a summer at a terrific math program – and those are the things that rocked his world.</p>

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<p>D2 is doing the full IB program now. She is taking all HL, except for math and physics. Since we have so many parents here whose kids took IB, I would like to ask you if it is necessary to take AP exams if she is in the IB program in order to be competitive for top tier schools?</p>

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<p>In terms of getting in, no. In terms of getting credit, yes – but it depends on the school. We were told everywhere we visited that full IB candidates had the “rigor thing locked down,” as one adcom put it.</p>

<p>Some schools will only accept an HL English score of 6 or 7 – but will take a 4 on AP Eng Lit and give exactly the same amount of credit. S2 hedged his bets by taking the AP – won that one. S2 was more confident that he’d get credit from his AP Bio score than his HL Bio score – and he was correct. </p>

<p>Generally speaking, SL exams don’t get credit, with the exception of foreign language. He took the SL Math Studies exam and AP Calc AB and AP Stat, and took SL Econ and AP Macro and Micro. In both cases, schools didn’t give credit for the SL, but did for the APs. Took SL Spanish and AP Spanish Lang (credit awarded was identical for SL and AP).</p>

<p>His IB program taught AP USH and Gov’t as pre-IB courses, so everyone in the program had at least a couple of AP exams. Our school doesn’t offer HL Chem, so as Marian mentioned upthread, some took AP Chem.</p>

<p>S2 took APs to ensure credit/placement and to take courses that he couldn’t get through IB. Wound up with 11 APs, 6 IB exams and an extra IB course because he loved the topic (did not take the exam). About half the APs were “insurance” since we didn’t know where he was going to be til 5/1. </p>

<p>In March of senior year (when we had to fork out $$ for APs), S2 and I sat down and made a chart of the schools under serious consideration and figured out who’d give credit for what. He had planned to take three more APs, but when we realized that his top two schools only granted a limited number of AP credits and that his other scores already gave him max credit placement, he dropped those extra exams.</p>

<p>BTW, the hedge AP exam for HL English is AP Eng Lit, NOT AP Eng Lang. It helps if the student looks at the AP terminology before going in to take the exam since the emphasis is slightly different from IB. S2 did not do this, took AP Lit totally cold and got a 4. Getting a 5 wouldn’t have gotten him any more credit.</p>

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<p>CountinDown - thank you, that’s very helpful.</p>

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<p>

If your high school senior kid takes Calculus (and get a C), and someone’s younger kid takes the same class (and get a A+), the Calculus to your senior is “natural” and “breadth” of learning, BUT the same Calculus to someone’s younger kid is “rush” and ONLY simple acceleration?</p>

<p>

The school has a system to put MANY top math kids into 2 years acceleration track(, Pre-Calculus, AP Calculus BC at 10th, and 11th grade resp). So do you mean accelerating by 2 years is extremely proud thing, but if someone is accelerating even faster than those group of proud kids, then the kid has to feel guilty somehow? “TRYING” to super-accelerate??? What if it’s happening to someone “naturally” very rarely? Would you forcefully stop it?</p>

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<p>CountingDown has it exactly right – for an IB student, taking AP tests in the same subjects is not important for admission, but it may be important for advanced placement or credit.</p>

<p>My daughter, who is a graduate of an IB diploma program, got 2 7’s and 4 6’s on her IB exams. This got her absolutely nothing in terms of credit or advanced placement in college. The college (you know what college) gives no credit for SL exams, and also gives no credit for IB scores in 2 of her HL subjects. In the one remaining subject, it’s necessary to get a 7 for credit, and she had a 6. </p>

<p>She also took AP tests in four of her IB subjects, got 5’s on all of them, and got credit for all of them. Her hedge AP English exam (which she took cold and got a 5 on) was AP Language, though, not Literature. Many people think this is the easier exam.</p>

<p>Your mileage may vary.</p>

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<p>Marian, I agree that AP Lang is the easier exam – but the IB kids didn’t get much experience with the various forms of essays. The current coordinator recommended AP Lit since the kids have learned to so thoroughly dissect literature by that point. (It also made the SAT-II Lit exam pretty easy; S2 took that one cold, too.) AP Lang was one of the three exams that S2 dropped in March of senior year once we realized that a 4 on Lit got him just as much credit as a 5 on Lang. BTW, your D earned some fabulous IB scores! </p>

<p>The horse is already out of the gate on the radical math acceleration here, folks – now it’s a question of making the best resources available to help this student get an appropriate education in HS. She may find something in HS that captures her interest and chases that. The reality, though, is that she still needs to take math in HS, and having already gotten through BC Calc, it will need to be more substantive than AP Stat and waiting for Math HL, which will not add much more material than BC Calc. </p>

<p>I agree with the comments on making sure this young student’s emotional health is considered and nourished. PV seems quite aware of this and has already recognized that additional grade acceleration would not work for their family. We came to the same decision. Further subject acceleration, esp. taking place within the context of one’s high school, is a very viable alternative to sending a young teen to a college campus. </p>

<p>PV, some ideas for possible math courses for your D: Multivariable Calc, Differential Equations, Discrete Math, Linear Algebra, Complex Analysis, calc-based Statistics, a course in proofs. S1 took all of these at his HS, but these are along the typical math major track for a college freshman/soph who has already gone through BC calculus. (We were so fortunate to have this public program available. Taking this stuff with fellow high school students normalized the experience, too.) He also self-studied Number Theory, Combinatorics and Complexity Theory, which are math-heavy classes of interest to comp sci folks. </p>

<p>One of the good things about high school is that there are a lot of online resources/competitions that open up. One can choose to compete or just take advantage of the curriculum/problems to learn.</p>

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<p>Just want to make a correction: The IB diploma program is designed as a two-year program, true. But it does NOT have to be 11 -12 grade in US. It all depends on school. D is a senior and got her diploma at the end of her junior year. As for if you can take AP tests, yes you can, as D took some. Does it help with college application? it might. Does it save you money in term of getting college credits? probably not since your kid will probably go to HYPMS and they don’t take many AP classes as college credits.</p>

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<p>D2 maybe follow in D1´s footsteps, so it is interesting to know that they only give credit for 7 in HL. D2 is very good in humanities, so I guess the IB program is good for her. We will try to match up some AP exams with her IB courses. D1 didn´t have too many AP credits (6) because her school didn´t offer a lot of APs, but they certainly were helpful in her doing dual majors.</p>

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<p>sleepless – a FULL IB diploma after junior year? Not a certificate for passing the exam for an IB course? Does you school graduates its seniors in January? (some schools do, which is why I ask, as I know some schools in other parts of the world administer IBs in November)</p>

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<p>sleepless2009 — Your correction is quite interesting one to us if it’s true. I am looking for high school websites’ IB info which could be directed to our D’s school, in order to discuss on IB flexibility for her, if it’s possible. I appreciate very much if you could PM me about the school. Thanks.</p>

<p>Marian , and, CountingDown — Thank you. I feel you are so fortunate as you have been able to assist your brilliant kids with very supportive public school, with full of post-Calculus level math courses. To us, that would solve all of our D’s problem, but we do not have it.</p>

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<p>Now the challenge is to work with the school to identify resources for math classes she CAN take at the HS. They really can’t say she can’t take courses online, can’t go over to the college, and BTW, she has to have four credits of math to graduate, and the HS math she took in MS doesn’t count. That is not a free and appropriate education. </p>

<p>Stanford EPGY offers online courses in some of those math topics, and I know folks who have been able to get the school to pay for it. (Personally, I’d pay for the classes if that’s what it takes to get access and credit.) Students did independent study at school using the curriculum, and had access to a teacher as needed for support. They would then transition over to the flagship for math courses in junior and senior year.</p>

<p>The AOPS website [Art</a> of Problem Solving](<a href=“http://www.artofproblemsolving.com%5DArt”>http://www.artofproblemsolving.com) has a lot of info for how to access accelerated instruction in non-traditional situations.</p>

<p>Prepare to become an advocate for your D.</p>

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<p>Wowser. I was trying to point out that there is a lot happening in high school life besides a math class. It is a time when people solidify their self image. It can be very, very hard for a gifted student to make appropriate friendships. It can also be hard for a gifted student to value other gifts in other people (someone who is brilliant in math, for instance, may sneer at the immense talent it takes to be outstanding on the cheer team). </p>

<p>As someone who was an accelerated girl herself, I vividly recall how out of depth I was around the dating scene. I wasn’t ready to handle “come ons”. I was able to make some great friends that I still cherish – but that didn’t happen easily. </p>

<p>So, frankly, your posts frighten me. I have this mental picture of a really bright girl being launched into advanced math/science by her immensely proud parent without either party really thinking through all the parts of high school life. I am saying a private prayer that this is your second, third or fourth child so that you have experience with the many highs and lows of the teen years. </p>

<p>If this is your first born, then please, please read lots of Zits and proceed with some caution. </p>

<p>I am a huge fan of “Genius Denied” – terrific book! I would never have a student hide her talents under a rug. I would, however, work hard to make sure there is a balance between the gifted areas and the social areas. </p>

<p>Go in peace.</p>

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<p>As the mom of a 1 year skipped daughter who took classes (including AP Calc BC) with mostly seniors in her freshman year of high school, we’ve been-there-done-that.</p>

<p>I can say that the advice she got from her grandfather was good – “Find something to belong to.” That something can be band, the musical production, a club, whatever. For my daughter, it was first the academic team (like quiz bowl) and then later also speech & debate. Those were the people she hung out with. Socially, she’s been good friends with people her grade + 2 down to her grade - 1.</p>

<p>She didn’t have any problems with the junior/senior boys trying to hit on her, so that’s not a problem that has to happen.</p>

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<p>CountingDown, yes , FULL IB diploma after junior year and school year ends in June. This public high school has two schedules, one for gifted students( starting at sophomore year) and one for regular students ( starting at junior year). Some kids go to college after junior year just like regular high school graduate.</p>

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<p>

Olymom — I try not to be personal, but you still have not explained why you brought “Arts” as an issue here, as if you are suggesting that my D’s taking “REQUIRED” science course would prevent her from doing Arts. Do you mean, for Arts, she should not take “REQUIRED” science course? If so, she should take Art class after removing required science course? Does it make any sense to yourself? What have you been suggesting exactly?</p>

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<p>My major point is that you super-accelerating in many schools will mean that the student runs out of math options. And maybe even runs into snafu getting enough math credits for state requirements. It is best if there is a long term plan… in most cases it does not seem that the ms GC see that long term picture. </p>

<p>You have an exceptional student! Good luck.</p>

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<p>I am suggesting that it might be shrewd to develop in other areas besides where the gifts lie. Think of competition jumping (with horses) – it’s a constant balancing act – one wants a fast time (slow times loose) but one also wants as few errors (knocked rails) as possible. </p>

<p>So one has to judge where to gallop and where to collect and approach a fence carefully. A course has obstacles that are challenging in different ways. One filly might do terrific on a high jump but struggle with the broad water jump. So, through much practice and wise thinking, we know the filly can go straight out for three high fences and then it is time to gather in, slow down and concentrate on that water hazard. </p>

<p>The goal is to be well rounded and fast enough to “own” the whole course. Beginner riders/trainers tend to focus only on the strengths of the young horse – they will delight in her abilities and not take time to train/experience the other obstacles.</p>

<p>Now I’ve probably offended you yet again by comparing a student to a pony but it is a valid analogy (and how I see things). </p>

<p>Some young ponies are so talented that they can bomb around a local course well even without shrewd guidance. But, eventually, at the higher levels, the lack of breadth in training and experience gets beaten out by another who has put in the hours on the whole spectrum.</p>

<p>I specifically mentioned the Arts because that is the area where my two math dominant offspring were hazy. They’ve done lots of public service and lots of public speaking, both of which have been a blessing on many levels. Just look beyond the obvious gifts . . . please.</p>

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<p>PV mom-I think you may not be getting the responses you like here because nobody here can really tell you what your daughter can do under the constraints imposed by the high school. If she wants to graduate from X high school, and she wants to attend the full four years, and they require four years of math, you need to be talking to them to find out the best way for her to accomplish that under their requirements. Nobody here is going to be able to tell you what they will accept or allow. It’s always surprising to me that people think anonymous posters on a website will be able to answer specific scheduling issues for their kids. That’s why people question the rationale for posting to the website, and are addressing other issues. You posted here - you can’t control what other people will write or think.</p>

<p>Are you even sure that IB courses will be challenging enough for her, and that she shouldn’t be taking even more advanced courses? Maybe she should just do her entire high school math sequence at the local university. She won’t be the first, especially no these days. If the “PV” stands from Palos Verdes, it’s hard for me to believe the local high school won’t work with you. If not, there’s always Chadwick (or your own private school). I mean, whatever school district this is, presumably it’s the same one that allowed her to get to Calculus by age 12. So they should be able to work with you on some appropriate plan for her to graduate.</p>

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<p>bovertine — Thank you, … I have asked a “specific” question regarding IB here. Our school is new to IB, and will start next year with current sophomores. So, although she is with current sophomores in her science class, she is the only one cannot take IB science next year, when anyone in her science class CAN . The school has said that the IB is for only juniors/seniors as it’s IB policy. So I am here mainly, if anyone have experiences or have knowledge that IB can be taken earlier. If yes, we maybe able to convince school to allow her taking IB early even based in “individual course” . Already, one poster has come forward that her kid’ school do IB in grade 10th/11th for gifted kids(: post #29 ). I am looking for similar info. </p>

<p>And, your question of “if the “PV” stands from Palos Verdes”------ NO. PV for Piano and Violin.</p>