I am Indian American. I was wondering if applying as a BSMD can lower your chances of getting into the college as an undergrad. I am not sure if I want to do research and get a Ph.D. or do pre-med. I have intel isef awards and I wrote my essays about my passion for research. Could applying to the Rice Baylor BSMD Program lower my chances for getting into Rice Undergrad because of the following reason:
“Many of the folks who come to us with an interest in applying to BS/MD programs happen to be Indian American students. And what’s one of the stereotypes of Indian American applicants? …It’s that they wish to be doctors. It does not behoove any applicant — Indian American or otherwise — to present themselves as similar to so many others. When so many Indian American applicants are applying to college expressing an interest in becoming physicians, that is — in a word — boring. Our students at Ivy Coach are anything but boring. It’s everything we stand against. Our students are interesting. They’re unique. They’re students admissions officers want to fight for. It’s not easy fighting for another Indian American applicant who wishes to be a doctor. And when your task as a college applicant is to inspire admissions officers to root for you, that’s counterintuitive if you ask us.”
Would it seem conflicting to apply to Rice BSMD because my application shows research but I am presenting myself as a doctor by applying to Rice BSMD?
@yaleivyleague Though it is true disproportionate number of Asian applicants for BS/MD and regular MD, it is not true that it will lower your chances for undergrad in all schools, especially at Rice.
It is possible if the both UG and MD is of the same college and if that school is yield hungry school. So if you plan to apply to Northwestern or WashU, that is likely.
Rice and Baylor different. Also Rice is not yield hungry like the above 2 schools.
In some schools, though first they consider for BS/MD, ;later you can express that you would like to be considered for undergrad and they do accept. The examples are CWRU, Boston Univ.
Depends on the school/program you apply to. Not sure about Rice but North Western is still considered notorious on this front. The reasoning - if you had applied to their BS/MD program (and not selected), chances are you may have applied to few other such programs and got selected in one or more of them, and hence unlikely to join their traditional path program if offered admission, even with scholarship. So their yield numbers will be affected by offering you admission in the non BS/MD route.
Yield = % of students among accepted students who matriculate (join). The consideration of most of these brand name schools is to have as low as possible acceptance rates and as high as possible Yield numbers. Kind of predominant business model in education now a days if you will (including in some of the lower tier Ivies). Makes sense?
I think this is what @GoldenRock is alluding to by yield hungry. Boston used to be that way but based on what I gather, looks like they changed it recently. CWRU and GWU certainly don’t do that.
@rk2017 Thanks! At Rice, they accept you to undergrad first and then review your app for BSMD. However, there is a question on the Common App where you indicate whether you are applying to BSMD or not, so the AO who reads your normal app for regular admission will know that you are applying to BSMD and thus, that you obviously are confident that you want to become a doctor. Because I wrote all my essays about research and wanting to be a researcher who will impact the world and my resume is full of isef research awards and publications, I think this may seem conflicting, and besides, another Indian being a doctor is not unique for highly selective colleges such as Rice, and my main priority is to get into Rice UG because IDK if I wanna be a doctor or not yet. Do you agree with what I’ve said, that applying BSMD to Rice could lower my chances to get into Rice UG? Thanks.
Whether it affects depends on the college. Generally, if they find your app compelling, you can still get an admit. But a good BSMD program requires experience with healthcare delivery. That’s more than research, awards, HOSA or ancillary hours in a health setting, etc.
If there’s any supp asking you to explain your interest in becoming a physician, you can’t show this doubt. They want to give the spots to kids who will follow through on the med school portion. You don’t sound sure.
You shouln’t quote a company selling their magical consulting expertise as if they were authorities.
@yaleivyleague Based on the last 3 years bs/md cycle, Rice has admitted students for UG and did not invite for BS/MD interview. Though Rice does some filtering, Baylor has more say in deciding whom to invite for interview. So Rice does not penalize or care that much. So it is safe. But if you are so particular about Rice UG admission, then skip BS/MD program for R/B and apply for other BS/MD programs.
My D got Rice admission but no interview in 2016 cycle. Last cycle metsfan got Rice admission and no BS/MD interview. If not mistaken there were some posts in 2017 cycle also.
Other suggestion is to visit Rice if that is not too much of a logistical or financial problem.
I am familiar with Northwestern and let me clear up some of the false information that has been presented in this thread. Northwestern shares far more applicants with HYPMS than combined BSMD programs; they would have to worry about those schools first if they really need to focus on yield protection. But like many peers, the mechanism Northwestern uses is ED. Outside of that, it admits the most qualified applicants and does NOT worry about what programs or which schools you apply to. The stats at NU is so high and the RD rate is so low these days that it’s a reach for just about everyone, including those that apply to BS/MD elsewhere. The HPME and ug admission are actually two separate and independent processes that are run in parallel. If you apply to HPME, your HPME application would be reviewed by the HPME committee while your undergrad application would be reviewed independently by ug admission. You can have a situation where you could be well liked by the HPME committee but not the ug admission and vice versa. Of course, if you don’t get past ug admission, HPME committee’s decision becomes moot.
As far as I know, HPME is the only program that requires you to send them stats before you even get invited to apply. If NU really tries to play game to deflate it’s admit rate, it could have just let everybody apply to get higher volume of applications.
No hard feelings, but just to reiterate, NW does and heavily, care about it’s yield, a fact reflected by filling up a high percentage of it’s incoming classes with ED applicants. It is no Stanford or Princeton, Yale or MIT and such, that are so confident that they don’t even offer and depend upon ED option. I shared a link with stats couple of months ago in the BS/MD thread which I don’t have handy, but remember that the likelihood of getting admission there is 3 times higher for ED applicants. So they most likely consider that as a factor while considering admitting someone who has been turned down by their med school, unless they apply ED!
Agree with @GoldenRock, that someone with good stats and background is likely to get into Rice irrespective of whether or not applying to their BS/MD path. Besides, their intake for the program is so small, 6, that it is not practical for them to factor in which any way.
It’s NU, not NW and it’s Northwestern (one word). Filling a high percentage with ED is done by many of its peers like Duke, Penn and UChicago. At the same time, it doesn’t offer merit-based scholarships like Duke, Vandy, and UChicago. It’s no more “notorious” than others. According to NU president, he wanted to fill the class with more people that identify NU as their first choice; it’s about the community. But you are free to pass your judgement and claim (without proof) this is all about yield. He also wanted to allocate 20% of the class to Pell Grant recipients by 2020, which he achieved early in the past cycle.
Just because schools fill high percentages with ED doesn’t mean they will further actively seek out or speculate who likely attend and what not in the RD round. This is where you argument fails. In fact, an argument can be made that those schools would have easier time to manage the yield since their class has already been, say, halfway filled by ED and therefore would have less pressure to resort to the kind of practice you alleged.
By the way, Harvard EA rate is three times higher than its RD too!
If all the colleges that posters claim are so yield-focused truly had yield as their main concern, they’d take lower stats kids, sure to attend. They don’t cull through those holistic apps for nothing They want matches, which is far more than declaring your love. Or ED.
Maybe one issue is some think ED is a magic flourish. You still need to nail it.
^agree! A pattern called Tufts Symdrone (doubt Tufts is actually doing it these days) would have been established and obvious by now. I just can’t imagine how unpleasant it would get to be working in the adcom office if the final deliberation, after going through the holistic consideration, is ultimately about speculating who would likely get admitted to BS/MD and Harvard/Yale and therefore should be rejected. ?
You can say what you want to for arguments sake, blaming others in the process, but it is obvious the school is not in the same league as the ones mentioned earlier by me. And is apprehensive about who joins them and who will ditch and go to better places or programs, something reinforced by the fact that the chances of ED kids there > 3.x compared to RD, one of the highest in this business. Go check the stats someone (not me) compiled if you care.
FYI, Harvard’s restricted EA is not binding like ED, like comparing apples and limes.
^I would think everyone here knows the difference between ED and EA is more than just the spelling. I was just trying to see if you can think for yourself with a little hint - Harvard EA to RD ratio is significantly higher than Stanford; it doesn’t mean Harvard is more “apprehensive” about the competition than Stanford. Hope that helps. You also do not need to keep repeating that Northwestern is no HYPSM (just about everyone isn’t); just about everyone on CC already knows it. It just doesn’t translate to your claim that it has Tufts Syndrome. People have accused certain schools of having it based on stats like those on Naviance but Northwestern was never one of them. I am well aware of ED vs RD ratios and I am probably way better than you with numbers. You don’t need to tell me to check as I have already seen them. Those numbers just don’t mean much as far as whether one school has Tufts Syndrome or not. That said, if it makes you feel more convinced, I can tell you NU isn’t the only school with ED rate 3x or higher than RD rate; other schools include Amherst, Brown, Duke, JHU, Middlebury, Penn and none of them is known for Tufts Syndrome. They have no incentive anyway because it’s not even a factor in USN ranking. I don’t know why you made such a big deal after all.
A high ED rate doesn’t mean ordinary kids - or top performers who make too many assumptions in their app and supps- have any better chance. These colleges are not desperate to impress USNews. They have more important fish to fry.
It is NOT telling a college you promise to attend that attracts them to candidates. And many top colleges are using ED or Early to finalaize athletic recruits. Sheesh, none of this is as simplistic as it seems on the surface. Get behind those superficial numbers.
Of course, NU and Tufts, other Ivies, WUSTL, and others, can be concerned some top kid really wants H or S. But that’s not guessing. Not. It has to do with how a kid presents in the app/supp. Things like not knowing a college in a Why Us or listing some program or other point of interest this college doesn’t offer. (Or explaining why you love Cambridge, MA.) That’s on the kid.
So, OP has some thinking to do. If he’s not sure about a med degree, why aim for a spot in a BSMD program? And without the right profile that a particular college wants in its BSMD applicants, the pattern of academics and health delivery experiences, an applicant has barely a chance. To the better BSMD programs, that is.
An aspiring doctor can also be very into research. That’s why there are combined PhD/MD programs (NU has it and Baylor probably has it too). It’s common that people at your age have aspirations that could easily change completely overtime. I wouldn’t worry too much about contradiction. You just need to make sure you don’t make it sound like you want to come to Rice mainly because of the BSMD program. They wouldn’t make ug admission contingent on BSMD admission unless you want them to. I second lookingforward that it’s on you.
@lookingforward Thanks so much for your help! Could you give me a couple of examples of activities on your resume that successful BSMD applicants have (what is a health delivery experience)? And the only reason I was looking into applying for BSMD programs is that my parents are forcing me to, even though I am only 50% sure I want to do medicine. ATM, MD/ Ph.D. or engineering research sounds more intriguing to me, but we’ll see. Thanks!
It’s not HOSA, raising money, delivering food to patients, or the research. It’s actually working with patients in a context where their healthcare needs are addressed. And/or some sort of advocacy (an existing org working locally or in the area with the needy or their needs, directly trying to serve them and/or advocate for changes.) Rolling up your sleeves and digging in. Generally, not something delicate or distant. Nr just talking about a med future. Generally, not shadowing (unless that’s on top of other work.)
The BSMD program I know best is fiercely competitive. At many colleges, a lower admit rate than their regular admissions.
What are your school math-sci activities?
Look at a series of BSMD programs, to see what you can glean they want to see, th common patterns.
Why, 5 days ago, were you asking about engineering? What did you name as your possible major at Vandy?
You’ve really got to dig deep into what your individual targets value and look for, learn what you can, in order to make an effective app and make your best presentation. You’re applying to highly competitive colleges