<p>What the hell… my posts keep going from 500 down to like 497 and 499.</p>
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<p>Maybe it’s because you’re not making a substantial contribution to the forums. </p>
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<p>I’m citing old data here, but the revealed preference ranking suggests otherwise. Given the choice, students will tend to pick any ivy over Duke. Duke even ranks below Notre Dame, Rice, and Georgetown. The study ranks Brown fourth among the Ivies (under Princeton and above Columbia), and seventh overall. </p>
<p>Brown’s acceptance rate was near 10% while Duke’s is over 17%. I’m not saying that low acceptance rate makes one school better than another, and I’m not saying Duke isn’t a good school; I only mention this to show that your arguments lack warrants. There’s good reason, both objective and subjective, to believe that Brown > Duke. That said, Brown may not be for everyone. Some may find Duke to be a better fit. </p>
<p>If you’re a Duke student and like it there, then that’s fantastic, and I wish you good luck in your studies. On the other hand, if you’re some kid who doesn’t see the world beyond the dogmatic eyes of USNews, then you have my sympathy.</p>
<p>These are all wonderful schools. What matters most is the individual fit. Some students are better matched with Brown than Duke. Others should choose Duke over Brown. These rankings say nothing about which school is best for the individual student.</p>
<p>Honestly, what I would suggest is that, as a freshman, you simply experiment and find out what clubs you enjoy and what activities you are passionate about. High school is about finding your passions. Maintain your grades, take your AP classes, but don’t look like a formulaic candidate. Be someone who has pursued your passions and seem genuine to some extent. Just make sure you do not sacrifice your high school experience as you plan out your high school career. Rather than the rigid goals you have set, I suggest you simply have a goal in mind and work towards it with an open mind.</p>
<p>Oh, my. Freshman year is the time to join three thousand clubs just because they sound fun or because your friends are in them. Come sophomore year, you can narrow down your interests to 1-3 areas, but these should be based on your personal strengths and interests, not on what you think will look best to colleges. This is necessary not only for your sanity, but because these sorts of narrow-minded, college-as-the-be-all-end-all tactics can come across as transparent to colleges. From the experience of my older peers, any strategy that is advertised as “looking good to colleges” is often the exact opposite. </p>
<p>This is something to keep in mind when looking at programs like <a href=“mailto:Summer@Brown”>Summer@Brown</a>. Though undoubtedly a great experience in its own right, these sorts of programs (Harvard SSP comes to mind as well) are often far more contingent on one’s ability to pay than any actual intellect. And schools usually have a disclaimer that these programs have no bearing on an applicant’s admission to that particular university. Usually, free programs like Governor’s Schools (especially NC’s and NJ’s), TASP, RSI (is this free? not sure), etc are much more impressive ways to spend the summer. A job or internship can also be phenomenal way to spend the summer, and much more impressive than I imagine you think. It shows initiative and hard work, which can demonstrate more about your personality than a summer program that only illustrates the depth of your parent’s pockets. Summer programs that aren’t selective but are related to a specific field of interest can also be good ideas–debate camps, writing camps, a local marine biology camp, that sort of thing. Though it doesn’t particularly expound on your intellectual capacities, it does help flesh out your personality. </p>
<p>This–fleshing out your personality–will be your biggest challenge throughout high school. You seem to be caught up in the minutest details of your next four years. The best thing you can do is give yourself room to breathe, room to stumble. When you set unrealistic expectations for yourself, you make it almost impossible to succeed by your own definitions. Focus on school: Keep your grades up, and choose the most difficult courses that you can handle. All AP classes with a smattering of B’s is less impressive than a healthy mix of APs and honors classes with all A’s. And no, you can’t do all APs and get straight A’s unless you go to a ridiculously easy high school. Focus on your grades, and allow yourself to find the ECs that match your personality. This is no formula to getting into selective schools, especially Brown, which prides itself on being liberal and individualistic. Be yourself–and that includes admitting your faults.</p>
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Since when is the revealed preferences ranking, which is not even the actual cross-admit data and is 10 years old to boot, a measure of quality? (Answer: never.)</p>
<p>There are plenty of good reasons to think that Duke > Brown, starting with the fact that Duke outranks Brown in nearly every field they have in common (including neuroscience), has equally good graduate/professional placement, has a larger endowment and library facilities, and honestly, has a much nicer campus. I think you’d be hard-pressed indeed to find a scrap of evidence that Brown is in any way, shape, or form superior to Duke. The two are peers.</p>
<p>This may come across as Brown bashing, but come on, citing an ancient study and acceptance rates as supposed indicators of quality is laughable.</p>
<p>Hippo,
Perhaps I should make myself more clear (i.e. not let you put words in my mouth):
The comment that I am responding to is
It is immediately obvious that there is something wrong with this post.
It lacks warrant! By what measure, objective or subjective, is Duke better? Carin fails to answer this basic question. I provide two examples of possible measures, neither of which corroborate Carin’s claim. I never contend that these are the only measures, nor do I argue that these are the best measures. I humbly admit that the data are old, so there’s no point in using flaming rhetoric (“ancient study… is laughable”) to criticize it. I even go as far as to imply these measures may in fact not be indicative of quality.
The point is that Carin needs some justification before making bold statements like that. To be fair, Jaddua’s “Psh, Brown > Duke” comment fails for the same reasons. If you go after anyone, it should be them. It’s fine to debate the relative merits of the different possible measures, but only if that’s the issue at hand (i.e. if I claim that the only legitimate ranking would be by acceptance rates). </p>
<p>Now as for the other issues you bring up:
- “Duke outranks Brown in nearly every field they have in common (including neuroscience)”: By whose ranking or what measure?
On the graduate level? I don’t know about you, but I’m not getting a PhD yet… I want a solid undergraduate education with great teachers. Throw in an open curriculum, and my choice is made. That said, others may feel differently, and this is perfectly alright. As floatingriver says,
- “honestly, has a much nicer campus”: Sorry, I (as well as many others I’m sure) don’t really like neo-gothic architecture… This is an irrelevant point.
- “I think you’d be hard-pressed indeed to find a scrap of evidence that Brown is in any way, shape, or form superior to Duke.” Hard-pressed? I already did it in (1). Open curriculum. I’m going to be careful and make it clear that kids choose colleges based on fit. For me, Brown’s curriculum was a big plus over all the other top schools. For others, Columbia’s core was the way to go. In any case, this is a matter of where the individual student fits.
- “has equally good graduate/professional placement… The two are peers.” I think we’ve come to some agreement here. Going back to (3), I emphasize that while I find Brown’s open curriculum to be the factor that makes it better than its peers, I do not claim that everyone must see it this way. Some may be attracted to Duke for its higher endowment. Brown has been a great fit for me, while Duke probably would not have been. This is not to say that there aren’t students for whom Duke is the best fit. </p>
<p>Overall message I’m trying to get across:
-It’s good to justify your arguments. Claims without warrants are meaningless.
-Take the wise words of floatingriver seriously.
-I don’t know why you’re trying to be so rude to me (I hope you didn’t perceive me as being rude at all because that was not my intention), but in any case, if you go to Duke / got in to Duke, then congratulations because you’re going to get a great education.
-I <3 Brown :)</p>