<p>I have to agree, Whistle Pig. If you would choose Penn State over an Ivy there truly would have to be something wrong in your head. I am not just saying this as an Ivy grad, I'm saying this as a person of common sense. The career opportunities available to you after graduating from an Ivy far outweight the money you will save by going to a state school. I know from experience, having known many people both in state schools and Ivy schools. There just is no comparison, regardless of how tough it is to get into an honors college. My recommendation is if you want to go to a public school, go to one in/near a city. That is how you will really find opportunities. Again, nothing against Penn State, but if you are bent on going to a school in PA, check out Pitt or Villanova.</p>
<p>That is just not true, yale, and if you don't "mean" to sound elitist, you're doing a pretty lousy job.</p>
<p>You can get into JUST AS GOOD A GRAD SCHOOL from a top-50 (even top-100) university as if you went to an ivy, as long as you get a decent GPA and challenge yourself.</p>
<p>(<em>Sigh</em>) Alright, how can I put this in a way that won't get me attacked...</p>
<p>There is a reason why the top students choose Ivy schools. As I said before, some of my best friends from high school went to Pitt and are making more than I am right now. However, most are not. Ivy league and other top schools are the most well-known to employers, attract the best professors and students, and offer the best opportunities. Grad schools know this and students know this, and the MAJORITY of student entering top grad schools come from top undergrad schools. That's just the way it is. I'm not saying you won't succeed if you don't go to an Ivy, I'm just saying that that is the most proven way to succeed. Now, Ivies are not for everyone and some people would probably be more successful had they gone to a state school, but ON THE WHOLE Ivies offer you the best education and opportunities. Please do not take personal offense to this, that is just the way it is. I really don't think that I am in the minority when I say this.</p>
<p>... Let the tomatoes fly</p>
<p>Being near a city is a personal choice. It doesn't necessarily increase opportunities - unless of course you want to stay in that city after graduation or during summers.
Yale: The reasearch shows that it's the student, not where the student goes that makes the difference. You need to read up. I can also speak from personal experience. Most of the senior managers I work with are from state schools. There's nothing wrong with going to an Ivy - no reverse elitism here. Great if you can get in. But there's nothing wrong with top students choosing their state school either - and many do.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/superlatives%5B/url%5D">www.psu.edu/ur/about/superlatives</a></p>
<p>Look, for everybody interested in Penn State this is a great overview of some of the departmental highlights. </p>
<p>There are a lot of extremely bright people at Penn State doing some phenomenal research. My son never hesitated to turn down Cornell, Duke and Swarthmore to attend Penn State undergrad. He is not alone. The opportunities are there, the connections are there, the research opportunities abound. There is more information there than anybody can learn in a lifetime.</p>
<p>Husband is an engineer. MIT and Penn State grads treated the same in the hiring process. Only thing they are wary of is the perfect 4.0's.....can't make a decision on the run with limited info. Welcome to the world.</p>
<p>WE ARE.... PENN STATE!!!!! (Toneranger...can't sit by and watch you do all the defending now can I :))</p>
<p>I figured I should respond. I actually did apply to Ivies--just not early and I also applied to other top-tier schools. I just haven't heard yet and I shouldn't until April. PSU, therefore, is the first school I have heard from. </p>
<p>I ended up choosing to apply to PSU because I had a sibling who went there--my brother--and he has ended up very successful/attending an Ivy-League graduate school. That said, he also loved his undergraduate experiance at PSU, and when I visited PSU, I also really liked it; it's a beautiful campus, tons of school spirit, etc. </p>
<p>I did apply to Schreyer's too--which is a fantastic honors college that has a 100% placement at graduate schools for all of the undergraduates that attend (my brother ended up going there). He was also accepted to Duke, Notre Dame,Emory and Columbia but he decided to attend Schreyer's because he really liked the feeling of being in a state university; he was football/basketball captain in high school, so attending a school that had both strong academics and athletics/school spirit was important to him. </p>
<p>Also, I wanted to get out of state, so that eliminated my state university. </p>
<p>so, while PSU is perhaps not my absolute number one choice, I'm glad I got in--it's a great school!</p>
<p>I think there may be a point that's being missed here. Higher education OUGHT to be about learning. The reality of existence and flourishing of large mega institituions is not because they are good learning environments or that professors (or TAs) enjoy teaching accounting 101 using 15 classrooms all connected electronically or teaching writing in classes of 30 ... or 50 ... or 150. </p>
<p>The existence and growth of places like Penn State are functions of economics and mission. Many tuition-paying bodies (even tuition @ lower levels) are needed to fund graduate education, professorial research, and public "service" in whatever forms. Furthermore, while good teaching is appreciated @ the Penn States, don't ever delude yourself into believing that promotion and tenure and rewards will result exclusively or primarily because of great reviews in the classroom. Sometimes necessary but totally not sufficient with very few exceptions. Undergrads are the cash cows in the BCG model and don't forget it.</p>
<p>Lastly about the learning issue. Anyone who thinks its better, preferable to teach virtually any subject in lecture mode vs. alternatives is delusional.</p>
<p>Over the past 40 years, mass education has become increasingly popular. Today, nearly 80% are forced by economics (usually in the form of parental pocketbooks to the PSUs, Pitts, Clarions, etc.). 40 years ago less than 50% attended these types of institutions. It's money.</p>
<p>Now, do people from these great instituions go on to achieve. Of course. Like the computer, good info in ... good info out. Are football games and "school spirit" cool beans? Of course. As the saying goes, "I ain't NEVER had TOO MUCH fun." But that has not much to do with academic learning and education in the end game. </p>
<p>And one other variable on the "flip side" ... Aside from connections made at the Yales and Hahvad's of the world ... and these can be mighty ... universities have essentially failed to persuasively, convincingly, compellingly measure and inform the public about the value of one institution vs. another. (We DO KNOW very convincingly why a degree is critical to economic success in today's world ... it's generally, if not individually, worth millions of $$).</p>
<p>So what's the point here, you ask? While observation and conventional wisdom seem to suggest their value, there is no real evidence that any one student is better off having a Yale degee than a Penn State. And in the very same vein ... there is NO evidence that having a Penn State degree is any more valuable to an individual than a sheepskin from Slippery Rock. Individually, it really depends upon how they spend their time rather than where they spend it. </p>
<p>Lastly, why do people defend their position be it Yale, PSU, Pitt, or Butler Co. Community College? Because they bought it. Or intend to. Not because it's logical or the best place or they could learn equally as much at half the price. And the US News and Princeton Review ratings know that while their ratings are the epitome of silliness ... the buying public is grasping for confirmation or creation of their own self-made or desired myths.</p>
<p>Overall, good points whistlepig. Yes, it's true that parents and students are likely to defend the educational decisions they make. But not all will go on to slam the choices of others. That's the problem with some posters on CC threads.<br>
Choosing a college is a highly personal decision, and many times, an economic decision as well. Every student looks for a different set of variables. Social environment is more important to some than others. Some kids like big environments - others hate them. Big lecture halls and research focused professors are not found exclusively at state schools - prestige (and expensive) schools like Penn and Cornell have plenty to go around.
And if it all comes down to the student, not where they go - let's call it a day and agree that ALL college choices can be OK. Is the student happy? Are they learning? Are they picking up life skills and becoming independent?
Yes, it's offensive to read posts like "a top student must be out of their mind to choose X school". Yes, when X school is your school, the defensive shields go up. What's interesting to me is that this is pretty common way of thinking in some circles. Would someone have this kind of conversation at a party? Don't think so, but true feelings come out when identities are hidden. Ugly...</p>
<p>Thank you, toneranger.</p>
<p>toneranger, the next time you are in the Boston area, let me know and I WILL tell you to your face everything that I have said here.</p>
<p>Yes, it is important that students choose a school that fits them. However, you cannot argue that the more respected colleges offer the best oppotunities. I am not saying that one school is better than another, I am saying that some schools offer a clearer path to professional success than others. That is simply a fact. If you want to choose Penn State over Cornell, be my guest. I am just saying that I never would. I prefer an environment that fosters academic growth, and it seems that Penn State (the "#2 party school in America") does not offer that.</p>
<p>Of course, most would agree that an Ivy can lead to valuable connections - especially right after graduation. But this is not the only reason to choose a school. As I said, there are plenty of motivated students at PSU - some who go on to the best grad schools and win prestigious national scholarships. Would you tell them that they made a stupid choice? Or are we just talking about odds here? IMO, if you are an Ivy caliber student, you can do well in many places. It then becomes a matter of fit, geographic preference - and sometimes money. Since Ivy students pay so much more for their education than their public school friends, of course they are going to argue that the investment was worth it. I wouldn't expect anything else. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no studies to prove the long term economic value of an Ivy.<br>
In any case, I am done arguing here.</p>