Can I get into Harvard?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
21

<p>@VigorousStrategy,</p>

<p>“I’m given information that doesn’t seem to answer my question.”</p>

<p>That’s because your posts raise other questions in folks’ minds that are more important than the question you asked.</p>

<p>You’ve asked, “I need to know my chances!”</p>

<p>No one here can know your chances with any great precision, especially since much of the data upon which these decisions are made is missing.</p>

<p>But the short answer is: Your chances are poor. </p>

<p>Let me repeat that:</p>

<p>Your chances are poor.</p>

<p>Whether they are merely average-poor (about 5% chance of admission) or very poor (even lower) or poorer still (nearly 0%) is harder to ascertain. I’m betting that your chances are between very poor and nearly non-existent.</p>

<p>The more important questions relate to things you’ve said, like, “I’m very anxious and scared.”</p>

<p>That’s a bad thing. I know that neither of my sons were ever particularly anxious, and certainly never scared about their college search process. Your reaction is aberrant and it causes other posters concern about you.</p>

<p>Or how about this, “…for that I had no idea what Harvard was and college was not important.”</p>

<p>Others have asked, what is it about Harvard that turned you around? To other posters, it looks like you’ve become star-struck with Ivy-shaped stars in your eyes.</p>

<p>Folks are reacting to you because even though different students go through the process of college selection differently, there are certain milestones common to all who engage in the activity profitably, and folks don’t recognize any of them in your posts. Thoughtful, mature high school students trying to figure out where they want to go to college don’t wake up one day and say, “I know! I’ll go to HARVARD!!”</p>

<p>The information you want most, “What are my chances?” is the information you need least.</p>

22

<p>… Bill Gates walks into a neighborhood bar, and all a sudden the average (mean) net worth becomes a 10 digit number. Unlikely that the median net worth changed much though. </p>

23

<p>Notjoe said it well. There are things in your posts that are concerning and people are trying to help you. I will be honest and tell you that character is very important in selective admissions, and honestly your lack of manners and consideration lead me to think your chances are low for getting in.</p>

<p>There is no good reason to focus exclusively on Harvard, other than prestige and what other people think. Harvard has wonderful professors, students, and classes, but it is not for everyone, regardless of “smarts.” And there are many other schools out there.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

24

<p>@compmom - “lack of manners and consideration” - for that you made an assumption precisely upon my messages in that I get feedback that I didn’t want. And I understand what @notjoe was saying. It has caught my attention. But even then, do you look at the prize and all the accomplishments and things that come with it, does your success seem engaging. My lack of manners and consideration come from the stubbornish I guess I have in me when it comes to succeeding. I do track, and well people always tell me this and that on how to lower my times. When the day came to who could really set a fast time (specifically 800m) - I did it. You know why I did it, because I never gave up on the prize. I never looked at different events, or gave up on track. I aimed to be the fastest on the team. That mentality will set me into Harvard. The determination to never give up, and to keep going. I tell you, the feeling is great. If I do fail, will my motivation only strengthen. I only learn on experience and judgement. You guys have judged, and I have intaken your insights. Now I will go out there and do what must be done, but this message isn’t saying I disagree with you, It’s saying that I have taken what everyone has said in consideration. </p>

25

<p>@VigorousStrategy‌ - Good luck with your quest. Determination will help, but ultimately it’s up to college admissions committees to make the decisions on who they chose to admit. If you appear arrogant, as you do on this forum, it’s not going to help your chances.</p>

<p>You are lucky to to be getting advice from such knowledgeable people. Most of the posters who have replied to you are not fellow high school students, rather they are Harvard alumni or the parents of Harvard students, and know of what they speak.</p>

26

<p>There are a few separate issues here, @VigorousStrategy. The first is whether, objectively, your accomplishments will be sufficient to merit consideration at Harvard. The data you’ve provided is sketchy, but it suggests not. The rigor of your curriculum is on the increase, but compared to most Harvard applicants, it isn’t competitive. As an example, both my sons had completed five AP courses by the end of junior year. This could be an artifact of your high school. Perhaps the best students there only have one AP after junior year. However, even there, Harvard seems to admit folks who manage to surpass the curricular restraints of their environment. Both my sons went beyond the limits of their high school’s curriculum, and I believe that was a significant factor in admissions to Harvard. It’s difficult for me to believe that you have surpassed the usual constraints of your academic environment.</p>

<p>You haven’t taken the SAT, the PSAT, or the ACT, so it’s harder to figure out whether the objective parts of your application will be competitive. This is a little troubling, sincet better high schools often give the PSAT to sophomores as a “practice,” and also to help folks size up where they are, objectively, in comparison to their peers nationally. </p>

<p>You haven’t shared anything about your extracurriculars, but assure that they’re “amazing.” Please forgive posters if we don’t take your word for it, but rather would like to hear more particulars before encouraging you further.</p>

<p>However, we do have other evidence before us, in what you’ve written herein. If this is your ordinary writing style, then you’re not a credible candidate for Harvard. You don’t write well, and at Harvard, there is a real emphasis on excellent command of written English. There are significant grammatical problems with some of what you’ve written, there are coherence problems, and there are style problems. Right now, you are nowhere near writing at the level required for admission to Harvard. If you wish to take a step toward admission at Harvard, I recommend that you begin intensive efforts to dramatically improve your writing ability. Private tutoring may be appropriate.</p>

<p>Another problem that you will encounter is that what you perceive as confidence is clearly arrogance that arises out of a complete lack of knowledge about how admissions to top-tier schools go. In track, you are in complete control over the time that you post, and it doesn’t matter how arrogant or insulting you may act toward others. If you have the best time, you have the best time, and no one can take that away from you. In admission to highly-selective schools, your ability to interact well with other folks, especially those whom you encounter in the admissions process, matters. If you act like a jerk toward people before you run your 800m race, but still turn in the fastest time, you get the gold. If you act in a less than mannerly way with your interviewer and with teachers, counselors, employers, and others who might write you recommendations, if arrogance comes through in your essays, you will likely not be admitted.</p>

<p>And then, finally, you seem to fundamentally misapprehend means and ends. You wrote:</p>

<p>“But even then, do you look at the prize and all the accomplishments and things that come with it, does your success seem engaging.”</p>

<p>Apart from the general incoherence of his sentence, you seem to be saying that admission to Harvard is a prize, an end to itself. It’s as if you view admission to Harvard as a personal validation of sorts, something to give meaning to your life. It isn’t. It’s just a milestone along the way. Attendance at Harvard certainly provides lots of great opportunities for those students who know what to do with them. But of itself, it’s not an especially useful “prize.” Nothing comes with it other than the opportunity to work your rear end off to do something worthwhile with the opportunities it affords.</p>

27

<pre><code>^ To OP, you don’t want to focus on the negative advice offered by these gentlemen in this post. Whilst negative, they are trying to help you based on the way your trying to get in, at least to them. I am in a similar situation as yourself, I have a terrible Freshman year (2.6 GPA) and am hoping to raise it up much higher over the next 2 years. Posters here assume you will get in with the perfect 4.0, 2400,36 SAT/ACT scores, and you personally monopolized the entire school’s leadership clubs with your skills. Your mentality is excellent, and I will tell you right now that you have all that you need to get yourself into Harvard, or whatever program that you choose.

People seem to think that Harvard is this school that you need to be a god in academics and life to get in. They assume that only smart people get in, and that overly ambitious people do not get in, nor deserve it. I really don’t understand people, because they almost always tell you that you will not get in, because you got a 99 on that test 3 years ago, or you don’t have the necessary requirements etc. OP, understand this.

Let’s pretend that we are admissions people for Harvard or any school that a bunch of people get rejected a year. I walk in, right after the EA closes, (remember that over half of the class has been admitted so far, so around 20 thousand applicants are competing for 50 percent of the spots left), and know that I have a whole bunch of applicants to review. I sit down, chat with my fellow admit buds, and get to work. First applicant in my desk, 4.0 GPA, 2400 on SAT, and a lot of leadership. Generally I would be like dam, this person worked their but off, and likely did a lot better than myself in school. However remember that I have been doing this for years, and this is basically normal for a lot of applicants. So it reject the application, and take another applicant from my huge pile. Let’s say he has a 3.5 GPA, basically normal everything else, I toss it aside. So after a few hundred, I keep on smacking the rejection stamp at nearly every single applicant.

Then after the 600th applicant or so, I come across something interesting. The computer says that he is normal, but hey, I spent about 4 hours reviewing applicants, so I decide to take a risk because his essay is very good and I like his writing style. I look at the application, sub par Freshman year, average sophomore year, and a junior year that is good, but no where near the league of any applicant that I reject nearly a hundred times a day. I look at EC, normal, but one thing catches my eye, he wrote a book. I check and what do you know, it is a best seller, and he has signed with several companies. I realize that if he keeps this up, my school’s name will look great right next to his, and further improve the prestige and fame of our already famous school. I oil the accepted stamp for the first time in weeks, and get him in.

Then down the line, I see another applicant, she is an average applicant, however has a lot of research and development projects in her EC file, and she constantly talks about them in her essay. So I bite and place my rejected stamp down for the first time in 2 hours, and investigate further. She has done great work, wrote one book on an experiment on teenage behavior, and that book has won acclaim from several prominent psychologists. I also see that she has a lot of recommendations, something I cringe on due to the fact that the applicant may try to sweeten the application with them, but a majority of them are from fellow scientists and lab partners from her volunteering at a local lab. The professor of the lab tells me that she is an incredibly innovative and determined student and scientist, and tells me of her staying overnight on a project that seems to lead nowhere, but then creates something that startles even the professor. I also hear that she is great at leading a team, constantly discovering new things with the combined brainpower of her team. And to add further excitement to this interesting application, she also loves to create projects in the garage as a side hobby, with her best work being a UV sensor that allows solar panels to tilt to the sun to get maximum juice all day, and in addition to that, a chemical that slowly releases stored energy from the sun, allowing the solar panels to continue to produce electricity even at night, and has several patents and deals with solar power companies to start distributing and marketing her product. I spend an extra 40 seconds looking for my accepted stamp, that has fallen on the floor, and accept her in, not even remembering that her GPA is a 3.2, never even took an honors class, and got ok SAT scores.

Then near the end, when us admissions are swinging the rejected stamp faster than Robespierre dropped his guillotines, I come across another interesting find. This applicant was sub par for freshman year of high school, and his grades jumped up during sophomore year, according to him, he did this because he heard of our wonderful institution, newsflash kid, people heard about us a long time before you. Now I was slightly pissed, and was going to grab my rejected stamp and slam it so hard on his application that WWE would be jealous, however my stamp has run out of ink, I throw the stamp into my rejected stamp bin of about 78 others, and unwrapped another one and sit it down until the ink made it wet enough for use. So I had a few minutes stuck with this applicant, I decided to look at his application in a bit more detail. He had a upward grade trend for his 3 years, however grade trends don’t really convince me. He does track, and is quite good at it, he tells me that he accomplished this because he never gave up and worked at it to become the fastest. He has the mentality of success I thought, however he needs to convince me, but then. he did something junior year that, while I can’t remember due to the sheer amount of applicants that I reviewed in those final days of admissions, impressed the entire admissions team so much that we personally sent him a letter of good job. Of course, I stamped his application immediately after that.

I also remember a applicant who I rejected years ago, he told me that Harvard is a dream in his essay, and he did a lot of incredible things. I however was new, and a fool back then, still believing that 4.0 GPA applicants were superior to all others. He is now one of the richest SOB’s in the world, making thousands of times my salary, and the man never went to college, because he said in his admissions that Harvard is where he belongs. We tried so hard to get him in, however he declines, saying that the ‘experience’ of a college education is passed, as he is now in his early thirties. The ■■■■■■■ even declined a honorary degree from this institution, and still to this day wish I accepted him in.

OP, after reading this I hope you realize that 2 paths are open. You can go to Harvard if you choose, and for that you need to do something unique that will make you stand outside of everyone else. Remember that admissions are reviewed by people who have more tolerance of 2400, 4.0 students, than a 80 year old woman who has been smoking for 60 years. Do something unique, and they will be impressed enough to admit you.

Or, you can spend the next 2 years reading and reading, studying people who accomplished great things, and tell any prestigious institution to **** off when they shower you with honorary degrees after you become great. The choice is yours.

Enjoy life friend,

Soon to be high school Sophomore.
</code></pre>

28

<p>All I can agree with in the above post is this

And most people who are enjoying life did not obtain a Harvard degree nor sought one. </p>

<p>Nice of Paul to be slagging the advice of a father of two Harvard students, and other alums and college students. While your transparency (15 yrs old and a cumulative 2.6GPA) do you honors, conversely, they diminish your stature to comment on advising Harvard aspirants, don’t you think?</p>

29

<p>Paul’s post is completely plausible. I saw it in a Tina Fey movie. The kid with the lousy GPA actually did get into Princeton - although it didn’t end well for Ms. Fey who admitted him (but you can’t have everything).</p>

30

<p>^^ Sorry my post was mean. Good luck to both OP and Paul!</p>

31

<p>^^^ not mean @Falcon1. If that’s received as mean, there’s no telling what college decision time will feel like. I’m usually someone who feels that there’s always a chance as long as you have a good story/character/fortitude, but this “visualize yourself as a winner and it will happen” thing can border into delusion</p>

<p>Eta: and good luck to OP and Paul. You will attend a school that you can learn a lot at and which will most likely be a good fit. </p>

32

<p>@Falcon1 - I agree with @ixnayBob. Your post pokes lighthearted fun. It’s a gentle way of trying to deflate unrealistic expectations.</p>

<p>Admission to Harvard (and other highly-selective schools) requires more than willpower, closing one’s eyes, tapping one’s ruby slippers together, and repeating three times, “There’s no place like Harvard!”, then opening one’s eyes and finding oneself eating in Annenburg.</p>

33

<p>Thanks @notjoe and @IxnayBob‌. I was kind of dismayed that the valuable advice you both were giving OP was being undermined by Paul with his unique version of the college admissions process. I think both kids fail to realize that yes applicants can write exceptional essays and can demonstrate tremendous fortitude and exceptional achievement in their EC’s, but they also have to put up the stellar grades as well. My daughter was one such kid as I’m sure were your kids as well. That’s how kids get in - there are no shortcuts.</p>

34

<pre><code> Gentlemen of course you need stellar grades in order to gain admissions, however the power of grades is severely diminished once you reach top tier colleges. The college degree crisis was caused because there is an inflation of college graduates nowadays coming from all sorts of colleges both prestigious and small. You are right in that good grades are extremely important, most admissions to honors in college, which allows you to learn much more closely with a professor and rival the education of the ivy leagues, in addition to most academic full ride scholarships require superb grades. Also 50 percent of valedictorians on average get rejected from ivy leagues when they apply, however 50 percent admit chance is much higher than 7-15 percent chance.

What people must realize is that Harvard could care less about grades as long as you have something to contribute to the organization. Let’s use the girl scientist and the boy bestseller writer as an example. While both may have average grades, and be considered ‘inferior’ to nearly all other applicants that apply, they have a increased chance of paying off for the institution. If the boy becomes an intercontinental bestseller, and writes books that can compete with the hunger games/Harry potter series, there is a good chance that these books will be made into movies. So when millions of people finish the book, and look at the back cover at the author’s biography, or even read a book on the author’s biography if he becomes famous enough, it will say that the man is a Harvard alumni. Which helps to strengthen that the best leaders and innovators of their respective fields graduate from Harvard.

The girl had a 3.2 GPA and average SAT scores according to myself, so that automatically places her in a huge disadvantage, however her hard work, high levels of will and intelligence, combined with her entrepreneur spirit caught the eyes of admissions and won her a spot. If you were a recruiter, would you take one of these applicants, or would you settle for the valedictorian 2400 genius. The sad part is that people in society think that Harvard is full of rich white valedictorians who speak in a funny accent. While I don’t believe such garbage, nearly anyone who does not know much about Harvard and the class diversity at Harvard seems to think this or something different. This is why Harvard is crazy about getting in poor disadvantaged URM, because they want to offset that rich white boy stereotype that people think so much.

Another thing is simply boosting prestige, you can fill your class with 4.0 2400 geniuses, or you can fill your class with innovators and people who will make a difference. Harvard constantly says on their website that they want to teach people in order to become leaders and innovators in their respective fields, and their goal is to have a Harvard degree carry a lot of weight and prestige, as it signifies that you are a well educated man/woman, and you can lead and innovate with the best.

Whilst your children got in with excellent grades, and I applaud them for it as they worked very hard and studies long hours to gain them, today’s admissions climate is very different. With so many top tier 4.0 2400 applicants, the wow factor of these applicants is as exciting as a high school degree is to an employer. As everyone has it, admissions rolls their eyes every time they see one. This is why college graduates have it so bad, whilst back in the day a degree was a sure fire way of a good job and a iron reinforced cement foundation into the middle class, nowadays is just as common as a high school degree. The reason that people are also crazy for Harvard etc, is because these institutions are generally recruited by a lot of people, and still have that bang for the buck with their degrees. I can do to INSERT NAME University, which likely will get me a job that I could of gotten had I not gone into 200 thousand dollars in debt, or I can work my ass off and get into Harvard, where I likely will have significant financial aid, and that degree that carries weight.

People tell me to look at other colleges, well as a high school student, we are not stupid. Eventually we will see that going into debt over a average college is not worth it, and I can guarantee you that Harvard’s admissions rate will likely drop below 1 percent in the future. The college bubble is going to collapse soon, and while that’s good because college tuition will do down the floor, it is bad of economy and our next generations education. We live in a new world, most companies simply hire people from China or India, where their education is much cheaper, and simply give another middle finger to all of America’s college students. Coming from a High School kid, if you don’t go to a Ivy league or at least a heavily recruited school that is a leader in it’s respective field that you want to learn, you will have tough times ahead of you.
</code></pre>

35

<p>Paul: How long have you been an admissions dean at Harvard? Truly, having not even achieved your 10th grade or a driver’s license, this is quite the accomplishment. Your information is preposterous beyond humor to creepy. CC should have a 3 A minimum to log on as a member. </p>

<p>I think I’ll take steps to ensure I no longer reply in the future – I’ll get myself in trouble.</p>

36

<p>@Paul13375‌ , I had not heard that 50% of Val get accepted. Iirc, I read that 50% (give or take) of admitted students are val, but that’s a different stat. Given the number of US Val’s/year, and the number of matriculating Ivy students, the numbers don’t seem to work.

My son is class of 2018, so I can’t imagine things have changed so much.</p>

37

<p>Too late to edit: I thought about it, and the numbers MIGHT work for 50% val getting accepted! but I’m still not sure that it is the case. </p>

38

<p>

</p>

<p>This is a completely absurd. The number of applications soared in the last decade from 20,000+ to 35,000+ due to use of the Common App, a bulge in demographics, Harvard’s change in financial aid policy and the conscious effort to bring in more lower income and middle class students. It has remained constant at the 35,000+ level over the last few years. For the acceptance rate to drop to under 1% the number of applications would have to skyrocket from the 35,000+ to 200,000+. This is simple math that I assume you can do or you definitely are not Harvard material. Where are the rest of the 165,000 qualified applications going to come from (look at the stats on how many kids score above 2150 on the SAT for example), unless they are all as delusional as you and ignore the published average statistics on who Harvard accepts and decide to apply anyway with low stats. The rest of your post is just as nonsensical. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>They don’t realize this because it is not true.</p>

<p>You’re talking as though you are an expert in Harvard’s admissions policies yet we are the ones who have attended Ivies, taught at Ivies and have kids in the Ivies. You absolutely have no idea what you are talking about but we all know you are young so you get a free pass (up to a point).</p>

39

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Paul, I tried to reread your post to see if I am being too harsh or missing something, but honestly, I don’t even know what the first two out of three sentences mean. I’m afraid you really need to get off CC and hit the books. Come back and lecture us when you can write (and think) more clearly. Better yet, wait until AFTER you actually have an acceptance from a college in hand before you tell us how they operate.</p>

40

<p>^ To posters, imagine if you had your own private university, would you rather take people who have good grades or are ambitious and want to succeed. The extra 200 thousand applicants will be from when normal college is a waste of money/time, and kids realize that either they go to a ivy institution because they have that ‘name brand’ that everyone seems to love, or simply realize that college is not as valuable as people think.</p>

<p>I understand that I’m young, and I also understand that my information may be inaccurate, hence why you ladies and gentlemen are glad to point out anything you feel is not accurate. But many kids nowadays are questioning the value of a college education. Many people will say this is an exception, and I understand that it can be, however many successful people nowadays seem to not go to college, or at least drop out before getting that coveted piece of paper.</p>

<p>I remember having an argument with a guidance counselor about college, I told her that Rockefeller dropped out of school when he was 16, Carnegie did not finish elementary school, and Morgan went to an ‘average’ college. The guidance teacher’s first argument was that their era was over 100 years ago, and things have changed. I responded with then why most startup tycoons did the same thing? We had a good conversation afterwards.</p>

<p>Before I go off on a tangent as I love to do, the reason why I responded to OP is to tell him that he can go to Harvard, provided that he do something that will set him apart from all the other applicants. If you read my original post on this post, you can see that the last 2 applicants meant the OP first being him going in, second was him being successful even without a college degree. Another poster told me that people are happy without Harvard, and he is very correct, however my concern and my love for big name schools such as the ivies comes from the tuition craze that my generation seems to love.</p>

<pre><code>Harvard has a minimum grade for acceptance of course, and people don’t really focus on it because they assume that the minimum is with the other applicants ( which is true to a point), and that if you drop below you don’t get in. Really the minimum grade is if you pass all your classes, then they can ‘legally’ admit you, however as basically everyone other applicant is better than this, the chances of this happening are basically 0. I wish to express that my main argument for OP is that he can do whatever the **** he wants to do in life successfully if he sets his mind to it, as he already has shown with his track commitments.
</code></pre>

<p>Please say any concern in facts that you have, and I will do the best to respond with additional facts to support this, and try to educate some people with some radical new ideas.</p>

<p>Thank you,</p>