<p>Oh brother, you’re like the energizer bunny. You keep on going… and going… and going. On another thread, you ask if Harvard’s football team has practice hours similar to high school teams (demonstrating the fact that you have no clue as to what happens in college) and on this one you are an expert on how their admissions committee thinks. I think you had better give it a rest. You are not educating anyone with radical new ideas, you are just acting like a petulant child who keeps petering their parents for a pony and ignoring the reasons why it is not feasible.</p>
<p>@Paul13375 - That’s the spirit, keep 'em flying. Remember, never trust anybody over thirty.</p>
<p>I’m really enjoying this thread…but @Paul13375 I have to point out that one of my pet peeves is saying so and so “could care less”, as you do above in post #33, second paragraph… It is “couldn’t care less”… Please correct for all future Harvard application essays.</p>
<p>lol menefrega, to everyone else, let me start on a new foot. Oh and thank you to sdgal2 for telling me about that typo, I will be sure to heed your advice during my essay writing.</p>
<p>All right many people fear that my lack of actually recruiting for Harvard could be considered a good reason for not talking, well sorry but I am continuing, for the sake of OP and education of course.</p>
<p>I won’t be talking further about not needing perfect grades to get in, as I think I hit that topic abit to much and you people just don’t want me to talk further on the subject, if anyone wants it reopened let me know.</p>
<p>I do want to talk about the college crisis, and possible ways to have our kids have an education without getting into debt. For one I want to say that according to my real life observation of the world (could be inaccurate, don’t get out to much you know), a college degree is not really worth much. Nowadays kids really look at college as a simple extension to high school, a very expensive high school I must add. Kids go to college, don’t seem to learn much according to employers, and thus don’t get a job after school. Well I think in order to pay of debt you need income, so that is a problem that our children have.</p>
<p>Again I must remind people that my Harvard craze comes from 1. me loving boston 2. me loving cold climates, and the possibility of eating a lot of seafood while studying (omega oils are great for athletes), and 3. I love having people who are smarter than me in order to compete with, learn from. I also want to add that Harvard will be very cheap, with possibility of full ride/ few thousand dollars in tuition from financial aid. I also understand that people assume Harvard is the greatest uni in the world, and thus job offers and support for funding will be much higher than me not going to college.</p>
<p>I can open a new thread if this topic interests people however I must get back to OP’s question. I want to ask all of you happy ivy league parents exactly what you told your children when they wanted to apply as I can guarantee it is not something like son/daughter, your not going to get in, so stop wasting my ******* time. If it was not something along these lines, then why do you keep on giving negative advice to posters? Again I understand negative advice motivates and helps push people along in order to prove you wrong, however you people are just at them like a pack of hungry wolves.</p>
<p>I act like I’m an expert because if you think about it, my ideas make sense. If I had majority shareholder interest in Harvard (no idea if it’s corporately organized or not), and I wanted my university to be even more famous then it is now, I will fill my school with people who love to change and challenge the status quo. I will tell admissions to give me the titans, presidents, scientists, innovators, anyone who I can help educate with my world class school in order to be great. I also want to be the person who helps educate people in need, not people who clearly got school mastered (4.0, 2400). These kids are brilliant, and already have the tools necessary in order to succeed. So again, if OP does something great that get’s him noticed by admissions, he is going to get in. I am glad to explain it in other ways if people need help understanding the (crazy) of this statement.</p>
<p>^ And yes I’m like an energized bunny, remember an athlete always has to have energy until the end :D.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Just as a point of reference, at Brown the admissions rate for valedictorians in the incoming Class of 2017 was 18%</p>
<p><a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University;
<p>@Paul13375 it was not so much a typo as a common misuse of the phrase, as is your misuse of to and too and your and you’re… You are right in wanting to learn from people who are smarter than you- CC is a great place to start. So many of these posters can offer you great advice…listen and learn. You sound quite intelligent, maybe just be a little more open to those who have more life experience.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Perform an honest self assessment (Naviance is a great tool) and do some homework on possible schools, so when applying you can make the best use of your time and my money.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nope, you’re wrong.</p>
<p>Our daughter did want to apply to a particular conservatory, where we felt it was just too much of a long shot, so we did tell her in so many words it was a waste of her time and our money which could be better used applying elsewhere. It was tough, but I felt it was the right thing to do. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First, Harvard is a private, not-for-profit institution of higher education. But instead of focusing on that tree, let’s look at the forest you portray.</p>
<p>Harvard had an operating deficit (operating expenses exceeded operating revenue) of $34 million in fiscal 2013, and $7.9 million in fiscal 2012. Included in operating revenue for fiscal 2013 was a $1.5 billion distribution from the endowment and $339 million from “current-use” gifts. If this “charity” is deducted from operating revenue, the operating deficit would have been $34 million + $1.839 billion=$1.873 billion!!! </p>
<p><a href=“http://finance.harvard.edu/files/controller/files/financial-overview.pdf”>http://finance.harvard.edu/files/controller/files/financial-overview.pdf</a></p>
<p>No wonder James Miller, Dean of Admissions at fellow-Ivy Brown has stated, “…Brown as an institution depends on the kindness of others” </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.browndailyherald.com/2014/04/14/students-question-use-legacy-admission/”>Students question use of legacy admission - The Brown Daily Herald;
<p>I believe it is self-evident that elite institutions are looking to attract students who will be successful in life and enhance the school’s reputation, based on a variety of criteria…including but not exclusively limited to SAT/ACT/GPA. They need to do this to attract top faculty, other top students who show promise of success, and…ahem…money.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am not certain if Paul is right or wrong in his general observation(I tend to think he is right). But I am certain that one anecdotal reference doesn’t prove any general observation right or wrong. I think the correct conclusion from your anecdote is that Paul’s observation is not valid 100% of the time. Jury is still out on whether it is correct most of the time.</p>
<p>Paul has said he is an entering high school sophomore. I’ll bet he knew what I said before I said it. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’ve followed the posts and advice of many of the parents and alum on this thread , and I do think most of them would discourage their own children from applying to schools which they had no chance of being admitted to - and steer them in the direction of better-fit schools.</p>
<p>@Paul13375,</p>
<p>“I want to ask all of you happy ivy league parents exactly what you told your children when they wanted to apply as I can guarantee it is not something like son/daughter, your not going to get in, so stop wasting my ******* time. If it was not something along these lines, then why do you keep on giving negative advice to posters?”</p>
<p>Actually, Paul, although I don’t usually address my sons with bad language, this is pretty much what I had to tell my younger son (without the need to blank out any of my language) during his sophomore year in high school. He had nearly-flawless grades, good activities, but his initial PSAT, with the results coming in before the end of the first semester, was a little below the range of what an unhooked applicant really needs to apply to the Ivies.</p>
<p>This was especially difficult, since in early spring, my older son was actually accepted by Harvard, and after a visit to the school in April, decided to attend there.</p>
<p>His junior year PSAT saw a noticeable improvement, into the lower end of the range for the Ivies, and ultimately, his second SAT at the end of junior year was at the higher end of the range.</p>
<p>But from the middle of his sophomore year to the middle of his junior year, there was no talk of Harvard or other Ivies, but rather what were his chances at schools like Hopkins or Notre Dame.</p>
<p>Why in the world would I encourage one of my own children to go to a school where the intellectual fit wasn’t right?</p>
<p>This is a sincere question, not a challenge. </p>
<p>It is not clear to me why Harvard would not have provided a positive intellectual fit for your second son. He had nearly flawless grades, good activities and his second SAT was at the higher end of the range (for unhooked Ivy applicants, right?)</p>
<p>I think there may be a lot of high school students reading this who might wonder why Harvard isn’t right for high-GPA, good EC, high end of the range SAT applicants.</p>
<p>Maybe there is something personal about your son’s situation that you don’t want to get into, but based on your post, I think he is a prototypical Harvard applicant.</p>
<p>I don’t presume to know more than Ivy admissions committees. If they think the kid would be a good fit, who am I to contradict them (absent some special personal issues)? If they admit him, and I still think I know more than them, I guess I could try to exert influence on him to reject after acceptance, rather than before application time.</p>
<p>If the family can afford the application and if it would not siphon time from other priority applications, then why not apply?</p>
<p>(My example of what I would do is not claimed as proof that Paul is correct. It is just one little data point)</p>
<p>@fenwaypark,</p>
<p>Please re-read my post. You misread it.</p>
<p>To give you a hand, here is the critical section:</p>
<p>“But from the middle of his sophomore year to the middle of his junior year, there was no talk of Harvard or other Ivies,…”</p>
<p>Once his junior year PSAT score arrived, things changed. He will be joining his brother at Harvard this year.</p>
<p>But initially, application to Ivies was not on the table.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>From that “critical section” I should have deduced that despite no talk of Harvard from middle soph to middle junior year, he (1) applied to Harvard and (2) was accepted…perhaps (3) due to your wise admonishment.</p>
<p>Got it.</p>
<p>Then which of the schools that you mentioned in your post does this sentence of yours refer to? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Harvard, Notre Dame or Hopkins? Obviously he has the intellectual fit for any of them unless intellectual fit is defined by PSAT. In fact, it seems you were very clever in using reverse psychology to encourage your son to do what it takes to get into Harvard. Good on ya.</p>
<p>Bottom line, I am thinking more than ever that Paul’s point is (generally) correct</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What is Paul’s point?</p>
<p>The one you referred to when you told him a few posts back, “Nope, you’re wrong.”</p>
<p>@fenwaypark,</p>
<p>“Then which of the schools that you mentioned in your post does this sentence of yours refer to?”</p>
<p>In this case, for my younger son, the Ivies and similarly-selective schools. If my son hadn’t developed further intellectually, these schools wouldn’t have been a good fit, and he wouldn’t have applied.</p>
<p>“Obviously he has the intellectual fit for any of them unless intellectual fit is defined by PSAT.”</p>
<p>One’s overall level of demonstrated intelligence is part of intellectual fit. A student who attends a school somewhat beyond his intellectual capabilities will find success difficult to find. That’s a poor fit.</p>
<p>“In fact, it seems you were very clever in using reverse psychology to encourage your son to do what it takes to get into Harvard.”</p>
<p>Oh, my. I didn’t realize that you were a mind-reader. Unfortunately, you’re not a very good one.</p>
<p>Not having knowledge of the future, I didn’t know how my son would mature and develop. It wasn’t “reverse psychology.” It was recognition of the facts at hand. His test scores were quite likely to keep him out of Harvard and any other Ivy.</p>
<p>From his initial PSAT to his final SAT superscore, his scores rose substantially,an unusual amount. If you think I was counting on “reverse psychology” to motivate him to improve his scores by that amount, then your thinking is no longer in contact with reality. Until his second PSAT, the little bit of college planning in which he engaged focused on a lower tier of schools.</p>
<p>"Bottom line, I am thinking more than ever that Paul’s point is (generally) correct "</p>
<p>Aside from being a non sequitur from the previous discussion, it’s also false. Lots of families have more than one child, one of whom goes Ivy, and others who don’t even apply. If you don’t have the qualifications, well, then, you don’t have the qualifications. Wishing doesn’t make it so.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>@fenwaypark I’m aware of my response to Paul’s question, but I’m unclear as to what you understand Paul’s point to be. I was hoping you could clearly state what you think it is.</p>