<p>Read some of “Tyler09’s” posts here. (Tyler08? I don’t remember.) Michigan gets some awfully impressive students, I think perhaps more than Wisconsin.</p>
<p>And it is silly not to take advantage of Michigan’s rolling admissions and FIND OUT whether it is a safety by applying as soon as possible. If the student applies now, and Michigan accepts her before December, then it IS a safety, and a darn good one, too, and if she has a problem with it, well, it’s her problem, because Michigan is world-class. If Michigan doesn’t accept her fairly quickly, then (a) it’s not a safety for her, and (b) she should think about what that means for her other applications.</p>
<p>Exactly. The best safety is one that has already accepted you. It doesn’t matter then if you didn’t have a 100% chance of admission before you applied, because you always have a 100% chance after acceptance.</p>
<p>JHS, what you say is true for Chicago too, which is probably her top choice. She really wants to nail her uncommon essay. The Michigan essays are harder than the Wisconsin ones and she thinks they’ll be a distraction. </p>
<p>Don’t you think the difference between Chicago and Michigan is much much greater than the difference between Michigan and Wisconsin? </p>
<p>Also, I either don’t understand what you mean by “if she has a problem with it, well, it’s her problem because Michigan is world-class”. It didn’t sound very nice, but maybe I’ve misconstrued your meaning. Should a kid be criticized for not being in love with a world-class school?</p>
<p>Classic, I think JHS meant in the context of “love thy safety” because you mentioned your D hasn’t visited and cannot visit. It’s always dicey for someone who “likes” the smaller schools to land on a large sprawly public campus (which Michigan is). Secondly it’s “rare” that you hear people talk about Michigan in the context of a safety as safety is used here on CC because it is a world class university known globally and ranked at the tippy top in many majors.</p>
<p>^But that’s exactly what makes it a good safety. You don’t have to love every single thing about your safety, you just have to like enough about it. World class in some majors (especially ones you are interested in) sounds like a good reason to choose it.</p>
<p>Statistically Wisconsin and Michigan are very close. The entering class GPA at Michigan is 3.8, Wisconsin 3.7. Mid-point ACT at Michigan 29, Wisconsin 28. It short, hardly a difference. So if she feels comfortable at Wisconsin I think she should feel the same way about Michigan, with the caveat that she apply as soon as possible.</p>
<p>The differences between Michigan and Chicago have to do with the overall size of the schools and the general college experience. My sons have friends attending both schools. Chicago comes across as a very intense academic environment with very few of the ancillary college experiences, (e.g. Big Football Saturdays).My gut feeling is that Chicago is an intensely academic place from day 1; Michigan’s and Wisconsin’s intensity increases as you move into the higher level courses.</p>
<p>Chicago has the reputation of being “the place where fun goes to die”.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I live in the Ann Arbor area, but I am not a UM alum.</p>
<p>Statistically Michigan may seem like a safety but like others have said, it really shouldn’t be treated as such. If your daughter is into research as her interest in Uchicago shows then Michigan is a way better safety than Wisconsin because of their top notch research facilities. I was blown away by what I heard about Michigan. I’m an 09 HS grad that applied Early Action to Michigan by Nov 1 barely making the deadline and was accepted by Dec 15. It was my second acceptance and became my top choice till issues with financial aid. And Michigan was oh so helpful. It gave off a smaller school vibe. I got a phone call from a professor talking about his research and his classes as well as from two admin people telling me all about the school. I never got to visit but I would have gladly attended which as one of the top 5 in my field- was far from a safety despite comparable stats (higher GPA, lower test scores though). But if Michigan isn’t something that your daughter can see herself at then don’t bother applying. And don’t underestimate the essays and the importance of ECs.</p>
<p>I’ve visited both Madison and Michigan and I love both Madison and Ann Arbor, but they feel different. Michigan is perhaps higher ranked than Madison in a number of fields and also better known internationally.
If she is interested in Chicago, writing the essay for Michigan would be good prep for writing one for Chicago!
Michigan has been trying to woo OOS applicants who bring in more tuition revenue than in-state ones. It has not cut as drastically as some other institutions, whether public or private; considering the state of MI’s economy, that is quite remarkable. I don’t know about UW-Madison’s current situation</p>
<p>Thanks vinceh. Yeah, she’s much more “where fun comes to die” (she gets the joke) than “Big football Saturday”, but she liked State St in Madison. Isn’t Madison a bit more urban than Ann Arbor. I’ve only been to Ann Arbor once to recruit at the Engineering recruiting fair, and on the Tuesday night before we arrived, it was difficult to find a restaurant still open at 8:30pm.</p>
<p>Yes, Madison is a bit more urban. Early in the week AA can be a little sleepy, but the arrival of Google a few years ago has certainly perked things up vis a vis restaurant hours. I haven’t been to Madison in a number of years, but in my book the three greatest college towns in the US are:</p>
<p>Get the application in by November 1 and Michigan guarantees a response by December 24. As others have said, she’ll know for sure whether it’s a “safety” then. There have been some rumors of OOS students with top stats being waitlisted if Michigan thinks the applicant is only using it as a safety. I don’t know how much credence to give those rumors. They do admit a LOT of top-credentialed OOS students, however, and your D looks like a strong candidate for the Honors Program where she’d be surrounded with other kids with similar (Ivy-level) stats.</p>
<p>Michigan and Wisconsin are pretty similar in many ways, but Michian has a slightly stronger student body (most telling stat: % in top 10% of HS class, Michigan 92%, Wisconsin 58%) and overall a stronger faculty with more top 5/top 10/top 25 programs (almost all of them, basically). Wisconsin’s a little spottier overall but equally strong in the social sciences and probably a little stronger in science, while Michigan has a distinct edge in many areas of the humanities and a definite edge in engineering and business (though Wisconsin’s quite strong in both). Suffice it to say that academically Michigan is what Wisconsin aspires to be and perenially comes close. I say this not to criticize Wisconsin which I think is a great and widely underappreciated school. </p>
<p>Michigan’s student body also reflects somewhat greater georpgraphic diversity. They’re both about 35% OOS but half of Wisconsin’s OOS students come from neighboring Minnesota with which it has a tuition recprocity agreement. Michigan gets more students from the Northeast, especially New York-New Jersey, though you’ll certainly find those areas represented at Wisconsin as well.</p>
<p>From reading the post from where this was culled, I would also agree. If your daughter would be as happy at Wisconsin as at any other safety you might come up with, I’d say … forget the other safeties. If she really cared for Michigan, she would probably beg you for the opportunity to visit.</p>
<p>Again, true safeties are only schools the student would be VERY happy to attend. It does not seem that Michigan changes anything to your daughter (IMHO correct) position on safeties. </p>
<p>If I were her, I’d rather add two or three REACHES than wasting my time with Michigan at this stage. The chances that she would end up at any of her safeties is extremely remote, especially if playing the early game correctly.</p>
<p>I don’t find it odd at all, the relative abundance and amount of contact with “academic peers” at Michigan will be substantially different from a school like UChicago. That’s because of the combination of two factors: size [Michigan (25k UG) and a 5k private] and the academic strength of the entire student body. While the top students at Michigan can compete with students anywhere, for the size of the student body, they are relatively few compared to a selective private where a much larger proportion of the cohort will be at their academic level.</p>
<p>Are you sure Wisconsin answer will come in Oct? Website says decision by Jan 15 for apps submitted by Nov. 1. Have previous students in your area received their answers before mid of December?</p>
<p>It would appear the only reason to add Michigan to the mix would be an earlier response to an earlier application…if she’s willing to work on it. They state “We will begin reviewing completed applications in late September and we will begin releasing decisions in early November” I know that students in our area (Northeast) have heard from them before mid-December…but don’t know about Wisconsin.</p>
<p>If, for some reason, the EA schools don’t work out…and Wisconsin doesn’t answer until Jan…it will be a tough Christmas break…with 2nd guessing on what additional applications to submit. It might be nice to have a sure bet…or close to it…in December.</p>
<p>The reason to apply to Michigan is to have an option if she has second thoughts about UW next spring and her other choices all reject her. UW and Michigan will both have her academic peers and be able to offer her an intense academic experience. Public schools will also have that next tier of students to fill their mission of educating their state residents that may be absent at a small private school. She should be able to find a way to visit each school next spring if she needs to make that choice. Large U’s also have many more course offerings than small schools- something to think about if a student wants more exotic fare.</p>
<p>Crossposted with above- that UW date is the latest for a response with an application by that date, there are still rolling admissions. The students who apply before the rush of fall applications will hear sooner.</p>
<p>This makes me laugh. Maybe this woman was on drugs that day, but I got to have dinner with a woman from admissions at my orientation session and she told us the essays really weren’t all that important. Though, I believe her exact words were, “Oh, they don’t really matter. It’s not really that hard to get in. It’s mostly your GPA and your test scores.” I had to laugh then, too. Not all that hard to get in? XD</p>
<p>From what I have read on the Michigan forum, which may want to be where the OP goes next, it is much harder to get in OOS than IS. But I didn’t think it was so much harder that this person wouldn’t get in.</p>
<p>It’s true that Mich is bigger than Chicago. But the OP’s D would be in Honors. The Honors students can stand head and shoulders with anyone in Chicago. JMHO, of course.</p>
<p>I will say though, that my S, who turned down Mich Honors for Columbia, would have been better off going to Michigan. All the intellect, less pretension. Again, JMHO.</p>
<p>^^^FWIW, my D was in Michigan Honors, but didn’t find it to be head and shoulders above Y, particularly since the majority of classes she took were not Honors. Different kid, different experience.</p>