<p>Later in the process, but not “late.” </p>
<p>The student in question knew that “earlier the better” so the students’ info was in early.</p>
<p>The guidance office did call. Don’t know if the GC admitted culpability, but UM did not reconsider. Fortunately, the student is now at a private institution (one that is considered more selective than UMich, BTW) and is very happy.</p>
<p>More:</p>
<p>This is not meant to criticize UM. I am an alum. I had hoped that our son would accept the FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIP UM gave him, in part, because he would not be so far away. (I’m NOT bitter! :D)</p>
<p>It’s just that funny things happen. 4.O valedictorians apply all the time. I’d guess that most in-state vals do. Maybe UM has figured out some correlation between the timing of a complete app from a val and the likelihood of attendance. I don’t know. </p>
<p>But my point is that this is not a sure thing,</p>
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<p>My point was not that the OP’s daughter needed more safeties, but rather that she needed a different safety. Someone whose wishlist is small to medium private may not be satisfied with the experience at a huge state university. In my opinion, the best safeties mirror the culture of the applicant’s top choices.</p>
<p>Safeties are harder to learn to love (or sometimes even like) than more selective colleges. That the OP’s daughter didn’t relate positively to the school that looked like a good choice on paper isn’t unusual. Sometimes you have to visit – or at least research thoroughly – several less selectives in order to find the one that best fits. </p>
<p>The OP says the cultural issue was thought through and that his daughter is good to go with her current list. Since I don’t know anything about this young woman’s personality and how she would relate to the teaching style at a large university I certainly wouldn’t argue with her parent’s appraisal; however, I would say that my experience at Michigan and my son’s experience at Williams were vastly different – polar extremes in educational philosophy, resources, social structure, environment. I’m not saying that one is better than the other. I am saying that they are very different. Same would apply to Wisconsin.</p>
<p>Culture, fit, personality whatever you want to call it does matter – in the liberal arts arena I would suggest that it matters even more than choice of majors.</p>
<p>The good news here is that by applying to Michigan under the early rolling admissions policy and also applying to one or two EA schools (presumably including her #1 choice) the OP’s daughter will know by mid December if her strategy was correct. If she gets disappointing news (which I don’t think will happen), she can re-calibrate.</p>
<p>To CRD: I think your D has the right strategy- focus on the UChicago EA application and hope for the best. Think about more safeties if she doesn’t get in EA.</p>
<p>I believe mafool’s story 100% because it also happened to our school’s val (a top HS district in the state, 2390 SATs, straight As, tons of great leadership activities, all the awards, great kid, great writer) and my own S who was not far behind. Students in the class who were far below these two in stats, grades, recs and activities were admitted while both boys were first waitlisted and ultimately rejected. Personally, I think that despite Michigan’s so-called stats driven application process that some games may have been played in their case. Both boys got into their first choice Ivy ED and subsequently attempted to withdraw their applications(phone, email, letter) from Michigan. Despite phone confirmation of the withdrawal (never any written confirmation), they BOTH continued to receive emails and letters indicating that they were still on the waiting list. Of course they never submitted the additional information requested of those on the wait list and both were ultimately rejected. I’m pretty suspicious of yield games here - have heard first hand stories of the same exact scenario out of the other HS in the district as well. Or maybe it was just a matter of applications on the later side in combination with disorganization on their part - that they don’t keep track of withdrawals as well as they should. </p>
<p>Neither boy applied very early, but not very late either. However, the guidance department got the materials in later than they should have on their end (GC knew that Michigan was neither boy’s top choice, but still). The kids who did get in had their apps in and complete by September or early October by the latest. I think that when high stat kids apply late (and other kids from the <em>same</em> school much earlier) that it may signal kids who are using Michigan as a safety -perhaps there is a bit of Tufts syndrome in play in that case.</p>
<p>I have not read the entire thread, but here’s my $.02: Michigan is definitely a safety for your daughter, so long as she gets her application in before the priority deadline, the sooner the better. My son (out of state and with similar stats) had a decision from Michigan by mid-October of his senior year. It’s wonderful to have a great school like Michigan in your back pocket.</p>
<p>I disagree with the idea that you will have a lack of contact with the exceptional top students at Michigan. </p>
<p>For example, as an honors student you may elect to live in honors housing (South Quad, 41% of the dorm of 1000 is honors students). In my case, I live in the honors dorm in a scholarship hall (I’d say more than half of the students turned down Ivy league and other top privates, including HYPS to attend on scholarship) with just over 30 students. </p>
<p>My first semester schedule consists of an honors “Great Books” class taken by all honors students featuring summer reading, a kickoff event and discussion session, and I believe the author of the book is coming to give a lecture and take questions. In addition I’m taking an honors first year seminar (capped at 20 honors students), and the honors sociology class (capped at 20 honors students). The only regular lecture I’m taking is Econ 101 (a pre-req for the highly selective b-school, known for having a very competitive curve) and in addition to that I am taking a once a week honors appendage (capped at 20 honors students) to further what I gain from the class. </p>
<p>Not to mention that all of my discussion sections (only two because the honors courses are small seminars) are with honors students as well. </p>
<p>A motivated student can have as much or as limited contact with honors students as they wish, and I think that’s the beauty of elite public universities like Michigan. I get to meet plenty of down-to-earth, everyday kinds of students with varying levels of academic and extracurricular motivation, yet all of whom are bright and ambitious. At the same time I’ll find more HYPS caliber students then I’ll ever care to know. I think that’s something you lose when you “isolate” yourself in smaller, hyper-selective private schools. They’re less cosmopolitan in that sense. But, of course, different situations work for different people. </p>
<p>To the main question of “Can Michigan be a Safety?” I think the answer is yes. Michigan was my safety school; all 6 of the other schools I applied/was accepted to were in the USNWR top 15. It was a safety school in that applied early, heard back in October and didn’t have to apply to any schools I knew I liked less at the time or that were less selective. I was also relatively confident I would be admitted, as is likely the case with the OP’s child. </p>
<p>However, the reason why I think it is important NOT to think of Michigan as a safety OOS is because the academic merit scholarships, (I believe Michigan is the most elite public institution that offers full-ride merit scholarships to OOS students) are incredibly competitive. I put an intensive amount of effort into the application and in the end I was able to save my family $220,000 that we would have spent over 4 years. Additionally, the more competitive and interesting your application is, the more support the University will seek to give you when you enroll. I haven’t even moved in yet and I’ve already been in personal contact and received phone calls from the head of honors, the director of the office of financial aid and the b school, and the president of the university. </p>
<p>So yes Michigan can be considered a safety school for the most competitive applicants. And if you approach your application to Michigan with the same intensity and determination with which you approach your application to Harvard, you can find more support, access to resources, interaction with high-caliber peers, and outstanding education than you could find anywhere else in the world.</p>
<p>Oh, and you’ll have a blast too!</p>
<p>GO BLUE!</p>
<p>Tyler, I remember your posts about what school to attend. I’m so glad Michigan is going well for you!</p>
<p>^Thank you! I’m unbelievably excited to start classes! </p>
<p>And I hope I can become a resource for people in similar situations this coming admissions/decision cycle.</p>
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<p>Tyler, I think many llook forward to your insights after you … move in. </p>
<p>Now, regarding the saving of $220,000, without intruding in your personal finances, were you really a full paying candidate such as the OP, and would Stanford have declined to offer you **any **financial aid?</p>
<p>Fwiw, many top publics in the USA offer full-ride merit scholarships. </p>
<p>I think that merit scholarships are a GREAT benefit to students and families. More power to the consumer! IMO, every school in the USA that has the means to do so should offer merit scholarships. It’s hard to fathom when I read posts on CC that decry their use. For a variety of good reasons, students may not always choose to accept these offers, but who wouldn’t like to have part or all of their college cost paid for?</p>
<p>^Xiggi, </p>
<p>If your question was directed to me, yes. Stanford, as well as the rest of HYPS, declined to offer me any financial aid. In total honesty, I did receive significant outside merit scholarships which would have reduced the cost slightly, but I have so far used that money to instead fund a study abroad trip, books, and a college life without the NEED for a work study job. </p>
<p>I think my situation is that of many applicants to these top schools, including the OP.</p>
<p>Tyler09,
Congratulations, and thanks for setting the record straight. There are a number of people on CC who for whatever reason seem to be bent on bad-mouthing Michigan—as best I can tell, without actual knowledge of the place. I hope you enjoy Great Books as much as I did 30+ years ago, and that your four years in Ann Arbor are as happy, productive, and intellectually challenging as mine were.</p>
<p>I would like to support what Tyler has stated.</p>
<p>DS is about to begin his junior year at Michigan. He will be living in South Quad for the third year. As an honors math major he has been extremely challenged from the start and has been surrounded by exceptional classmates.</p>
<p>A couple years ago when DS was trying to decided between Michigan and Chicago, a sage poster familiar with both schools gave the following advice which I believe to be very true. Chicago is academically challenging - period. A student at Michigan can have an academic experience every bit as challenging if they so choose, but is not required to peform at this level if they are so inclined. In other words, their is a range of choices and students at Michigan.</p>
<p>SB, fully agree with your last paragraph. </p>
<p>The fact is that a bright, motivated, driven kid can do very well at a good State U. The big difference is in the bright kid who may, if not ‘forced’ by circumstance, choose to take perhaps the easier road that is available at State U, but not at Chicago.</p>
<p>That latter kid may very well have been me and I am forever grateful to UChicago for forcing me to take the tough classes, forcing me to read Plato and St. Augustine, forcing me to take Art History and Music Theory, and generally forcing me to become a widely educated person comfortable in any intellectual setting. </p>
<p>Could I have done this at my State U? Of course. Would I have done this at my State U? Knowing me, I have my doubts.</p>