My daughter is a current junior and we’re just starting to think about the college application process. She is interested in something related to engineering or computer science, so UIUC is an obvious choice. But I’ve heard UIUC engineering and CS are extremely selective, like single digit admit rate, so I wonder if it could be safety at all. D’s stats so far:
Asian female in somewhat large competitive public HS in IL
ACT: 36 C (only sitting, 36 in all sections), still waiting for essay score from December test
SAT: will take in spring as required by school district
PSAT: 1510, will sure make NMSF
SAT subject: math II, chemistry, both 800. Will probably take physics at the end of junior year
GPA: 4.0 uw, not sure of unweighted, no exact ranking, but should be top 2%
AP: taken 4 so far, all 5’s. Currently taking 4 (calc BC, physics II, Eng Lang, Econ)
Other: AIME qualifier
EC: average to below average probably, mostly math team at school, some computer coding club
With the above stats, can we view UIUC CofE or CS as a safety? My daughter is not yet enthusiastic at all about researching colleges so I’m trying to do some early leg work first. She is kind of laid back, almost lazy, and not great at writing, so we’re not likely to apply to a ton of schools. I thought we should find a safety first, set a baseline as far as school caliber and cost, then build up from there.
Any insights and comments are greatly appreciated.
I don’t think you can count on it being a safety. Last year on CC there were two in-state applicants with a 34 and 35 ACT that did not get accepted to UIUC CS. However, as a female with her stats, she probably has a much higher probability of being accepted than these two males, and she would be a strong candidate at other top CS schools like MIT and CMU. While UIUC does not break down application information by gender, the acceptance rate for females at MIT is nearly twice that for males.
UIUC CS may be tough but engineering should be a safety. I know about 30 people who got accepted for engineering, different types of course, with ACT scores anywhere from 30-35
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=982 indicates that rigor and GPA are “very important”, while test scores are “important” along with essay, extracurricular activities, and particular talent/ability. Even with maximum GPA and test scores, the use of subjectively graded criteria as “important” may make it risky to rely on it as a “safety”.
The 4.0 GPA is unweighted, she is straight A so far. Course rigor should be pretty high if not maximum, since she would complete 8 AP classes by end of junior year, all other classes are honors except for the art classes.
I wonder what majors at UIUC would be considered a safety then, or what other comparable schools could be considered safety given the stats now.
UIUC Engineering/CS can never be considered a “safety”, but given carbmom’s daughter’s credentials (4.0 unweighted GPA, AP Calculus BC and AP Physics C, a perfect 36 on the ACT, 800 on her two subject tests, female, NMSF, in-state etc…), it is pretty close to being a safety. I would say UIUC is a very, very safe match. Also checkout Northwestern, they should give ample financial aid if needed, and they only have one short supplement!
@carbmom As stated, CS/Eng cannot be considered a safety given the examples of students with similar stats not being directly admitted. This probably has to do more with the selection process looking for not just very smart students, but very smart students with proven creativity and proficiency in coding and/or a very convincing essay. (CS prof on UIUC reddit has indicated about 30% of first year CS students have no coding experience.)
If you want to increase your chances, your student should attend events below. Sit in on an introductory CS class in the Siebel Center.
Since you are attending a large IL HS, there will most likely be a guidance counselor that will be your best advocate to the UIUC admissions process, especially if they have a long standing relationship with UIUC admissions office.
You should talk to the counselor at your high school and become further educated about admissions at UIUC. Each college at UIUC (Engineering, Business, Agriculture, …) has its own admission process and can very in its selectivity. CofE asks students to choose a first and second choice major. For accomplished students not accepted to their first two choices, they are generally given admission to DGS (Division of General Studies). So, in affect there is a built in “safety” for admission to UIUC as “undeclared” when applying to the CofE.
There is also a “FIRST YEAR ENGINEERING: UNDECLARED” choice when applying to UIUC CofE. Like CS/Eng, it is a small pool of students and very competitive.
One of the issues that make UIUC CS not a safety for anyone is the fact that they reserve about 27 percent of their class for non-resident aliens. It is the highest ranked major UIUC offers, and they want to make money from the International tuition.
As for safeties, with her stats and interest, the vast majority of colleges in the United States would be considered safeties, and she would be in competition for their top merit awards assuming the school offers merit. It is only when you get to the top 20 schools or high demand programs like UIUC CS, UW CS or UT CS that a school would cease to be a safety for a woman with her interests and stats.
The following thread has some information on the automatic merit aid available at a wide variety of schools.
In case you’re looking for other safeties, RPI would be a good safety - she’s guaranteed good merit especially as female. Good engineering. (RPI was my D’s safety and she’s now there as she got excellent aid.)
As someone else mentioned, your D would get full ride at Alabama.
She’d have a good shot at competitive full tuition scholarships at places like USC, UNC, etc. She also has a good shot at Rice, which meets full need.
Thanks everyone for the great info. Wow there is so much to learn just about one school. I’m so surprised to see the link @Zinhead provided above that shows such high number of int’l students in the engineering programs. Yeah Illinois is in dire financial trouble. My kids attend public schools so we totally feel that.
@IlliniDad18 thanks for your insights and the program links. My daughter has taken intro computer courses at school already and plan to take AP CS in senior year. She has also done the Girls Who Code program last summer. Would these count as some programming experience that UIUC would look for? That first year engineering undeclared sounds like a great option too.
I also wonder how much impact a high school’s reputation with colleges has when estimating admission chances. D’s hs sends many students to UIUC each year, and looking at last year’s published data, about 10% or so go to top 20 schools. I’d have to wait quite a while to get the school counselor’s advice though. They are busy now with the current seniors.
@Alexandre I like the idea of short supplements! Any other schools like that? I’ve heard of kids written off schools that have painful supplemental materials. We are in search of merit scholarships though, so unfortunately she’ll probably have to write quite some extra essays. That’s why I’m trying to have a short list of schools.
Some great schools have no supplements. Case Western Reserve, Connecticut College, Kenyon, Middlebury and Wesleyan come to mind.
Dartmouth, Duke and USC have a relatively short supplements.
Considering your daughter’s excellent credentials, she could have a shot at schools like Cornell, MIT and Princeton, but they require significant writing on her part. Her lack of ECs could be problematic as well.
Your daughter’s stats are almost just like my son’s. On our UIUC engineering tour this fall, they mentioned they have had great success increasing the number of women in the CS program in recent years. Given that, I’d say your daughter has a very good chance, and probably if she had slightly lower stats, too. Even so, we also were told that they admit less than 10% of applicants to engineering/CS, so I don’t think it should be the only safety for anyone. Maybe you could include Math+CS or another engineering field as a second choice major? (except Bio or CompE that are also apparently very selective)
My son is interested in physics, and was recently admitted to Engineering Physics that also has an optional computational CS track. I’m not sure how they deal with a double major in CS, but maybe that is a possibility also? For a safety, Purdue has a solid CS and Engineering program, too. My son applied to Minnesota (CSE Physics) as a safety and was accepted, but I think it’s also one of his top choices like Illinois. So, it’s mainly a safety in terms of admission and finances, not in the sense of it being a less desirable backup plan. Not a bad situation to have!
UIUC CS is extremely selective…acceptance rate is 7%. But given the fact that she is female with very high scores…I think she has an excellent chance of getting in… But it is not a safety for anybody.
@carbmom Do you have an idea of how much $ the family can pay towards her college costs? That would be a factor in looking for colleges/univ.
Is distance from home a factor? Or awkwardness of getting to/from campus? A friend’s daughter was selected for a special program at home. So every 6-8 weeks they had to drive to the campus pick her up and take her back over a short weekend. This didn’t include the parents’ weekend or concerts visits.
^^ Affordability is not an issue, but we definitely look for a “good value” in addition to good fit. With her stats we’ll be aiming for merit scholarships for sure.
We prefer some place within 6-7 hours of driving, but if she gets admitted to MIT or Princeton we won’t hold her back of course. We are not thinking about that yet. For now we’re just trying to establish a safety and work up from there.
So from what everyone said so far, an applicant gets two choices for engineering major at UIUC. CS doesn’t seem like a safety, but other engineering majors should be given her stats. Does this sound about right?
Also anyone know if she’d be competitive for merit scholarships at UIUC? Or do they not offer merit for engineering students since it’s in such high demand already? UIUC website shows they offer 30 full tuitions and 10 full rides to instate freshman, plus other departmental scholarships.
UIUC offers limited in-state merit but the process is holistic so there is no way to know how it will be doled out. If your D wants to be CS, she will be competitive for practically any school in the county, although some public OOS programs like UW and UT don’t make much sense for her.
At UIUC, there are other options for CS outside of Engineering dept. Example CS+Anthropology and CS+Astronomy. I heard that they are not as competitive as CS under Engineering.
