<p>Given its prestige, Harvard has amazingly low scores in the Princeton Review book for interesting professors (70) and professor accessibility (71). Also there seem to be numerous postings about classes in 200-seat lecture halls, seniors who have never met a professor, and lots and lots of classes taught by T.A.s. Is it possible, if you really try, to take lots of small classes with professors like you might at a smaller liberal arts college? Does the university even care about any of this?</p>
<p>By definition Research univs do not place their undergrads as the top priority. LACs do, so if this is a concern then limit yourself to them.</p>
<p>When my older son interviewed with Harvard, his interviewer told him, Harvard has abundant resources, and folks are always eager to help you. But you must ask for what you need and what you want. If you don’t, you may very well fall between the cracks.</p>
<p>My older son is a junior at Harvard. All of his classes are taught by professors. In his freshman year, he was in some largish classes. I think he has one similar class this year. It’s a general education course (everyone needs to take a certain number of these “core courses,” and thus, these courses often tend to be larger), and the course has become very popular. Like ANY college or university, introductory-level and general education courses required to fill core requirements often have large enrollments. Most all of his classes have had Teaching Fellows, as well, even many of the smaller classes. This is the standard method in a research university.</p>
<p>He has had profitable relations with both his professors and his TFs right from his first semester freshman year. He’s been offered multiple opportunities in his field of study directly by professors. Some of his classes have been taught by the top folks in their fields in the world. Anyone who claims he’s a senior and has never met a professor must be someone who never went to class.</p>
<p>However, there is a grain of truth to the criticisms. As mentioned, opportunities generally aren’t going to seek you out, especially when you first arrive. Professors aren’t going to thrust themselves upon you. The resources are there for a great education, but you need to avail yourself of them. No professor is going to approach you unsolicited to start a relationship, to ask how you’re doing, to ask whether you’re getting along, whether you’re able to do all your homework, how’s the food in the dining hall, how’s your social life, are you struggling with any part of your academic work. Professors are by and large very approachable, but you must make the first move. You have to ask for what you want, whether it’s academic assistance, advising, research or internship opportunities. But upon asking, you will usually receive those things for which you ask, and usually quite generously. And once you make the effort to establish relationships, opportunities will come your way unasked and unanticipated.</p>
<p>Harvard seeks to admit students who are adults, who don’t need hand-holding, who don’t need to be told to ask for help or opportunities, who are inner-directed, have some vague idea of what they want and how to get it.</p>
<p>I also agree w/notjoe and his son’s comments. When I give presentations on behalf of Yale, I point out a brag point of theirs : six to one faculty to student ratio. Then I skewer it. </p>
<p>I say that it doesn’t matter – if it were one to one and you’re not the kind of student that actually has the confidence and ambition to seek out your teachers for further knowledge and connection. If you’re a wallflower now, you’ll be a wallflower later and this ratio won’t matter. </p>
<p>Conversely, if one goes to an undersourced public uni with a less than beaming ratio but one is serious about making connections — many relationships w/profs and instructors won’t be difficult</p>
<p>Let’s look at the numbers in the Princeton Review guide:
Harvard, Professors interesting rating: 70
Professors accessible rating: 69 [this concerns me the most]
Yale is much better: 89 and 85
Stanford is 86 and 83
Princeton is 84 and 77
The LACs are generally much better, with Middlebury and Kenyon topping the charts at 98, 95
I’m not asking why Harvard’s numbers are less than the LACs, but why they are so much lower than its peers.<br>
Maybe these numbers are not reliable.</p>
<p>@DadXtraConcerned,</p>
<p>I don’t really have any idea why the Princeton Review guide reports what it reports. Our family didn’t pay much attention to it when our kids were applying to school.</p>
<p>As T26E4 points out, the ambitious, inner-directed student will get what he needs in almost any environment. That’s pretty much how my sons operate. They decide what they want to accomplish, and then do what’s necessary to get folks to get on their program. Thus, when they were considering schools, we were a little less worried about “fit,” as we knew that our guys could “fit” in most places. They are resourceful, adaptable, engaging, and usually make people like them.</p>
<p>So, the way things work at Harvard seems to be a good fit for my older son. On Harvard’s dime, he’s been to Europe twice, had two fantastic internships in two completely different fields, has concentration-related part-time work, as well as spontaneous offers of freelance project work in his field that have come his way because of work that he’s done and connections that he’s made. He has several professors in his department who have taken a significant interest in him, and one professor specifically who will be his thesis advisor.</p>
<p>My younger son is less than two months into his freshman year, so, although it appears that he’s setting in and that the fit will be good for him, too, it’s a little early to see the actual results.</p>
<p>The numbers probably do mean a lot. I can imagine a student with average curiosity/confidence flourishing at a SLAC but feeling a bit “meh” at Harvard.</p>
<p>T26E4 is probably spot-on about wallflowers.</p>
<p>So far, my daughter loves the place. (Granted, it’s October of her first year.) She is not outrageously confident, but she is not afraid to speak face2face with her professors, so I’m sure that helps. She’s taken college courses elsewhere, and she thinks her graduate section leaders are both capable and caring. She did shop the notorious CS50 and decided that huge lectures would not be for her; I suspect her interests will let her stay away from most of them. Her ambitions are strictly academic (she will not graduate to Wall Street) and that probably helps too; she doesn’t require someone to nag or praise her to buckle down and do the work.</p>
<p>So a lot probably hinges on the kind of student you think your kid will be. It sounds like you think an SLAC might be a better fit. Maybe you’re right.</p>
<p>These rankings are far superior to the Princeton Review ones, not least because you can decipher what they measure:</p>
<p><a href=“The Alumni Factor: A Revolution in College Rankings (2013-2014 Edition) - The Alumni Factor - Google Books”>The Alumni Factor: A Revolution in College Rankings (2013-2014 Edition) - The Alumni Factor - Google Books;
<p>Based on surveys of a few hundred alumni (per school) older than twenty-four.</p>
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<li><p>Harvard (?)</p></li>
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<p>That said, Harvard is a bit behind some of its peers and about thirty LACs in these listings too. Don’t know how much the disparities matter in practice.</p>
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I am a big LAC booster but have to admit when seeing this list that there is self-selection - The kid who is looking for an intellectual experience in college will head for Reed, Kzoo, Carleton. The high-achieving Wall St.-bound Harvard student couldn’t care less about an intellectual experience. So these small less-known schools will report more.</p>
<p>Yes, self-selection is one problem of such rankings. (Self-selection distorts PhD productivity, perhaps the metric posters use most often as a proxy for academic quality, even more than it distorts the lists I linked.) </p>
<p>The rankings are most useful for getting past the typical “University vs. LAC” heuristics: “this LAC offers better undergraduate experiences than that university because it’s an LAC.”</p>
<p>Harvard is not the right school for every one. One size – and one metric or ranking – doesn’t fit all.</p>
<p>For some students, Harvards is an amazing school in which to be educated, and the faculty is wonderfully accessible. Clearly not so for every one!</p>