Can You Translate Elite-College AdmissionSpeak?

Parent Cafe
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Back when I was house-hunting, I quickly learned to translate the language used by real estate agents. “Cozy” meant “Tiny;” “Convenient location” meant “Burger King across the street” or “Highway on-ramp in back yard.” And “Ready for your personal touches” was a sure sign that there would be Harvest Gold appliances in the kitchen.

More recently, when I went through the college selection and application process with my son, I realized that admission folks, especially at the hyper-competitive institutions, have a language of their own as well, but the translations aren’t quite as straightforward as they are in the realty world. When it comes to “elite” admissions, I discovered that the truth is often more about what is NOT said than what is.

For instance, I once heard a Harvard admission official claim something along the lines of, “We want you to pursue your passions, even if a schedule conflict forces you to choose orchestra over calculus.” Yet what the rep really meant was, “The vast majority of our successful applicants complete math through AP Calculus. So if you won’t be soloing in Carnegie Hall by November, you might want to consider taking the calc class … if not at your high school than at a local community college, over the summer, or even online.”

Other examples include …

AdmissionSpeak: Course rigor and grades are more important than test scores.

What’s NOT said: Our candidates typically have top grades in the Most Demanding courses. So test scores … including optional AP-exam results … often become the tie-breaker (especially if you are a middle-class or advantaged Caucasian, Indian, Chinese, or Korean kid from an over-represented geographic area with no athletic or other hooks).

AdmissionSpeak: We are SAT-optional because we don’t believe that test scores are true indicators of how a student will perform in college.

What’s NOT said: However, if you are a middle-class or advantaged Caucasian, Indian, Chinese, or Korean kid from an over-represented geographic area with no athletic or other hooks (or pretty much anyone from New Jersey or Long Island), :wink: then we will want to use your test scores to pull up our medians and, if you don’t send them, you’ll probably go to the back of the line.

AdmissionSpeak: You are not competing with your own classmates.

What’s NOT said: Long-gone are the days when we admitted 67 candidates from Choate. Now our applicant pools include a far broader swath of students than ever before, and we aim to represent a wide range of high schools in our freshman class. So if you’re a recruited quarterback and your best buddy is a recruited point guard, and you both happen to have great grades and test scores (and being an underrepresented minority student wouldn’t hurt either) then, sure, it’s highly likely that we’ll take both of you. But, chances are, we won’t accept the lion’s share of your AP Physics C section, no matter how amazing you all are (and the fact that we took two kids from your public high school last year won’t help you either).

AdmissionSpeak: I hope you will consider applying …

What’s NOT said: … so that we can keep our acceptance rate in the single digits when we regretfully turn you down … along with thousands of others whom we’ve incessantly emailed and encouraged.

Parents can help their often starry-eyed progeny, who are aiming for the most sought-after schools, to arm themselves with cynicism, skepticism, and a healthy sense of humor as they wade through the admissions maze. And, if your son or daughter can invent and patent an AdmissionSpeak translater app along the way, it might even boost acceptance odds. :slight_smile:

How about other CC parents … what AdmissionSpeak have you and your child encountered in the college search?

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I am quite astonished to read this post from a CC authority and expert. I have noticed/read 1000s of messages previously where angst ridden parents express the exact same concern

and have been “moderated” dismissed and ordered “If you dont agree with their policies WHY do you even apply?”

Thousands of parents have expressed this opinion over time and have not been received well on the Forum.
Many Asian kids have come on and said they are held to a higher standard. People go after the kid mercilessly, disagreeing, attempting to convince the teen that its purely their imagination…

I am thrilled to read this post from a CC expert.
Its a fantastic post

Top colleges are playing with young innocent teens, giving them false hopes encouraging them with malice all geared towards making THEMSELVES look good
Its unfortunate.

I am happy Ms Rubenstone has come forward and validated that such a thing actually exists… aka bias against
Asians and Caucasians and the matter of conning teens into believing they will be admitted and making them apply with no intention of looking at their application

"

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AdmissionSpeak: We’re holistic. We look at the whole person, not just your scores and grades.

What’s NOT said: Even if you have excellent scores and grades, we may need a tuba player for the band, so your tuba-playing friend with lower stats will get accepted, while you won’t. Sorry.

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I don’t think that there is actually a “bias” against Caucasians or Asians or against any other racial or ethnic group. But what IS true at the most sought-after institutions is that there are simply far TOO MANY super-qualified students from those demographics to admit all who apply. So the admission officials must do some real hair splitting when making tough decisions. Thus test-scores can be tie-breakers, along with a number of other factors that help admission committees distinguish one stellar candidate from the next. And because, as a group, Asians often participate in what are considered stereotypical activities (e.g., math club, chess club, orchestra, cultural dance …), the Asian who is a rap artist or place-kicker on the football team is more likely to stand out in a competitive crowd.

Thus, what comes across as appearing as a “bias” is really more a way of creating a class that is diverse in multiple ways. Yet the student who is told to “pursue your passions” should probably also be told, “If you’re Chinese, let’s hope that this passion isn’t violin unless you’re world-class (because some of your ‘competitors’ WILL be!”).

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Way to feed the “woe is us” narrative, @Sally_Rubenstone. How about that what they are really saying is:

If you look just like the most accomplished applicants from your area, you need to figure out how to swim against the tide and stand out. You need ECs that are atypical. Show is that you are interested and interesting, in addition to being accomplished. Show that your whole life has not been focused on targeting a “top school”, but that you have been busy doing something unusual that has an impact on the world. That is what they want.

Sheesh. If any “regular poster” had started this thread, it would have been edited and we’d be lucky to still be here.

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Great article, and one that should be read by every student or parent who has sights set on top colleges. And @BoiDel , not sure what you have been reading on CC, but I think Sally has succinctly summed up what I have understood over the last few years. I have seen dozens of posts in which Caucasian and Asian kids and parents of these kids have been told their chances aren’t as good because of their ethnicity. I get it, and I don’t begrudge the first gen, URMs, low SES, and otherwise hooked students. (Well, maybe the athletes, a bit:-))

I agree with the test-optional observation for sure. My white d was accepted off the WL to an excellent test-optional LAC with a sub-25% acceptance rate. She had high test scores and good grades. Two things we are both pretty certain of: she probably would have got in ED, and she probably wouldn’t have ever got off the WL if she hadn’t had high test scores.

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Lindagaf: I frequently read advice given to Ivy seekers, telling them they are misinformed and super selective colleges are NOT mysterious and deceptive. And such commentary from many Asian kids’ are seen as racially inflammatory and a quick intervention is made advising them to dial it down.

Ms Rubenstone’s post gives credence to millions of high achieving Asians and Caucasians that KNOW and suspect something is wrong, but are not brave enough to air their view publicly

I agree with intparent, if this post was made by a teen or an Asian/Caucasian parent, this thread would have seen intervention already.

Ms Rubenstone" YES, it does seem like a “bias” against Asians and Caucasians. We can rationalize it and explain it away however it should be… but it does exist

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I think over the years the consensus has gradually changed that now more people are (willingly or unwillingly) accepting and acknowledging prominent roll of race on admission. I have observed this trends among many friends too.

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My Caucasian kid had very good acceptance results (better than her GPA had a right to expect, accepted everyplace she applied including some very selective) – and it was because she wasn’t typical in interesting ways. Anyone of any ethnicity can take that path – but when you stay on the well trodden path that everyone around you is on, you can expect that you are going to have a harder time. My advice is simple. Don’t be a lemming. Don’t do what everyone else is doing, and don’t march to the exact same goal (there are more than 10 great colleges in this country).

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When I started this thread, I didn’t envision it turning into a discussion of racial bias in admissions. There are certainly other ways that parents and students don’t get the whole story from admission officials and their written propaganda which have nothing to do with skin color or country of origin.

One of the biggies is essay topic. When I sat through college info sessions with my son, admission officials often responded to questions about personal statements by maintaining that applicants should write about something they care about and not what they think they’re SUPPOSED to write about. So, undoubtedly, countless kids headed home, labored over essays about winning the district soccer tourney and then had no idea how many eyes were rolling in admission offices when a staff member groaned and said, “Here’s yet another sports essay.” :wink:

So perhaps what these admission reps SHOULD say is, “Write about something that’s important to you, but if it’s likely to be a common topic–such as The Big Game or The Spring Musical–try to approach it in an unusual way.”

Some of you other parents must have examples of AdmissionSpeak that don’t have anything to do with race or ethnicity!

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Admissions websites often say that SAT Subject Tests are recommended. To me, that means, “If you go to a suburban school in an affluent area (or a private school) you need to consider them required.” That can sometimes be seen as a proxy for “If you are White or Asian you need to consider them required.”

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It’s not just Caucasian and Asian kids who experience, well if not outright bias, then “too many talented applicants”, its Caucasian girls and Asian girls in particular. Boys at LACs it’s widely acknowledged are given a break in admissions. some people even use the term “affirmative action for boys”

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1727693,00.html

Kenyon admitted to this and then it was declared illegal, but . . . it’s apparently still going on.

As an administrator at William and Mary famously said: “We’re William and Mary not Mary and Mary”

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■/ivywise-knowledgebase/newsletter/article/the-truth-about-affirmative-action-for-men/

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if you didn’t envision that, you shouldn’t have started off with it.

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From personal experience, this is, in fact, truly the Harvard admissions’ office viewpoint: “We want you to pursue your passions, even if a schedule conflict forces you to choose orchestra over calculus.”

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This is thoroughly depressing.

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I don’t agree with it overall.

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Feels different experiencing it as a parent than as an admissions consultant…

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Sally, you have made many good/practical points, including the following: “And because, as a group, Asians often participate in what are considered stereotypical activities (e.g., math club, chess club, orchestra, cultural dance …), the Asian who is a rap artist or place-kicker on the football team is more likely to stand out in a competitive crowd.”

Now I have a question and have no intension to put Sally in a difficult spot. Suppose that as a group, non-Asians often participate in what are considered stereotypical activities, such as cheerleading, would these activities handicap non-Asians from standing out?

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This thread absolutely perpetuates accusations of bias, and it’s incomprehensible that you didn’t realize that. It undermines all the more subtle/nuanced/informed comments on this board.

Very disappointed.

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All of these points are very interesting and informative. My question is why are we allowing these expensive schools to stress out our kids ? We(parents) are paying these schools so much money to educate our kids ! Shouldn’t it be the schools fawning all over us ?