How to increase your chances at acceptance at holistic review universities

Full disclosure: I’m not a college coach nor have I worked in admissions, though I’d maybe like to someday. My sample size for this topic is only what I’ve experienced with two recent college admits, one 2 years ago and one now. The first one was eventually accepted at every school he applied (seven) and the second was accepted ED1 at the only school he applied. I have also followed the acceptance threads of many schools on CC and seen some of the dismayed posts in the parents forum. The reason I decided to write this is because of a discussion I had yesterday at an admitted students reception for the University of Chicago with a parent from an outside US education system who is stumped about the process inside the US at some of the more selective academic institutions. While we were talking primarily about the Collage at the University of Chicago and the University of Pennsylvania, I believe that my idea will work well at any undergraduate institution that looks for a “holistic” application.

His question and his tone implied dissatisfaction with the holistic application process and implied that the international process is so much better. My immediate thought to his assessment of how much better the international process was “then why do US universities dominate world rankings for undergraduate institutions,” but that is a topic for another thread. My response to him was holistic process means they are looking for more than just academic performance. I then told him what I think would greatly help any student applying to a university that uses that process. I don’t know if this is true, maybe some experts can validate it.

First and foremost, be passionate about something that is worthwhile to society. This doesn’t mean you know what profession you want to do when you grow up, many things can lead to that passion. Don’t buy the baloney that you are too young to know what you want to do with your life. Spend your time looking for wrongs that you want to fix. Maybe not how to fix it, but look for that mortal wrong.

Sign up for and take the most rigorous classes that will help you with your passion. Don’t take AP Psychology just to get AP credit if you want to lead the first manned space flight to Mars. Don’t take AP Physics Electronics and Magnetism if you want to help eliminate racial injustice. I know that not every class will fit your passion, but the point is don’t take classes to only decorate your resume.

After you take those classes, study them like you want to learn the subject. If that class helps you with your passion, you should want to learn everything you can. If you study to learn, rather than study to get a grade, you will do very well in the class. You will also learn enough to do well on the placement tests. Too often students study to get a grade, and because of that they put things in short term memory. If you study it to learn it, it will be with you forever.

Sign up for ECs that fit in with your passion. To many people sign up for ECs to decorate your resume. Pick ones that either directly or indirectly support your passion. Directly could be volunteering at a local charity, volunteering to work on a election campaign, or doing research at a local institution of higher learning. Indirectly, could be anything that teaches you to be a leader (Boy/Girl Scouts, captain of athletic teams, etc.) You could also accomplish both direct and indirect benefits in the same EC, like being a leader of a volunteer effort, leading the debate club, etc. This doesn’t mean you can’t have hobbies and do other things, but at least some of your ECs should show your passion.

When you ask for recommendations, just don’t go up to your favorite teacher and say “Hey, I need a recommendation, would you mind doing one for me?” Pick teachers that know you and how you have tried to learn instead of get a grade. Your teachers will know that by the questions you ask and the work you submit. Write them a nice note asking them if they would do you the honor of writing a recommendation for you. In that recommendation, ask them to highlight how you are living your passion and maybe help them understand how you’ve demonstrated that passion. Also, inform them what you think the institution will be looking for in an application. After they submit your recommendation, thank them and keep them informed of the process. Teachers like to know they helped and if you get accepted somewhere where they helped they will know that their process works. Additionally, you may need them for scholarship applications and thanking them appropriately will encourage them to spend their time helping you again in the future.

If you have a few questions in the application process, reach out to the admissions officer that covers your region. Ask them the question instead of putting it up on CC. Do this by picking up the phone and talking to them or in person on a college visit. If you do this, they begin to get to know you. Perhaps a question about how could you further your passion at the university if you get excepted both academically and in clubs and organizations might also help with the holistic picture of you.

Finally, in your essays, make sure you draw that picture for the admissions officer. Tie up all the strings in how your passion drove your life up to this point in your life. You don’t have to put that in every essay, but at least one of them should complete the picture.

I hope this helps you when you work with your kids on applying to universities. If you are an expert I’d like to hear your thoughts and corrections to the process I listed above. Hopefully, it will reduce the number of “college applications are totally a crap shoot, and life is not fair” posts. I hope you can learn from my experience like I did from son #1 to son #2. Son #1 was a great kid who put together a nice application, but it didn’t really paint a holistic picture of how he wants to make the world a better place. Son #2 did. Son #1 one was disappointed when he was deferred and wait-listed at his first choice. And disappointed again when he was deferred at choice #2, but accepted a couple weeks later. He was beginning to doubt himself as a student. A doubt that followed him into undergrad and is just now beginning to dissipate. Son #2 applied the above plan and was accepted to his first choice early in the process. Both had very similar stats and strong ECs.

You have some good ideas but I have a fundamental disagreement with your emphasis on “passion”, particularly as it relates to academic work.

Colleges (especially the most competitive ones) are at their core, intellectual and academic institutions. It is a mistake to assume that as long as you are branding yourself consistently with your “passion” you are heading in the right direction.

What does this mean?

If a kid has the option of taking and passing AP Chem or Physics, there is ZERO downside to that even if the kid is the biggest social justice warrior in town. HS is HS and adcom’s know that. Kids shouldn’t be tricked into believing that their “passions” matter more than the core academics. Because they don’t.

Most parents and kids underestimate the importance of that little check off box- “Most rigorous curriculum available”. THAT is more important than making the world a better place at the age of 17.

I posted recently about my experiences as an interviewer for Brown, and all the well-meaning Bo-ho’s and hippies and “alternative” artsy kids who thought that Brown would be scooping them up because of their artiness.

Guess what- taking a rigorous HS curriculum and doing well at it is more important at Brown than your hippy cred. Acing AP Chem if your HS offers it is more important than a laundry list of all the social activism you intend to get involved in or have gotten involved in. Show colleges that you can do college level work.

I am dumbfounded at the number of kids who think that juggling or clown college or being Boho or arty is a meaty substitute for doing well in academics.

Do you want to go to Marlboro college or one of the CTCL’s? Then ignore my advice because I’m wrong. But don’t think that your Passion and brand is getting you in to a mega competitive college in the absence of the other stuff. Because it won’t.

Are you Yo-yo Ma? Then you can ignore me. But if you are on CC, trust me- you are not Yo-yo Ma. And my advice applies.

Okay, I think this one bit is going about it in the wrong way:

I would suggest reframing this in an affirmative way rather than the negative – what courses should one be taking in high school if they want to lead the first manned space flight to Mars? (I actually think Psychology could be very important there.) Likewise, what courses should a student be taking if they want to eliminate racial injustice? Sure, Electronics and Magnetism might not be all that useful (at first glance) in fighting racial injustice, but that doesn’t mean that a student should not take that course if they happen to enjoy it and find it interesting (in addition to having a passion about eliminating racial injustice). They are in still high school – they still need to have a well rounded education.

@blossom I don’t disagree with you at all. The academic rigor is very important. My point was don’t take a class just to decorate your resume. I think if the most rigorous math your school offers is AP CALC B-C, you have to take it and do well. My point was more along the line of taking a AP social science course does you little good if your passion is STEM related and a class on CAD, which may not be AP might do better in a holistic review if it fits your passion.

and I’m an old fart, what is Boho?

I cannot think of a single science course which would not be useful for someone with a passion for eliminating racial injustice.

Any social science research (psychology, sociology, political science) has to be grounded in the core disciplines of research and data hygiene/collection/analysis. You want to show that redlining by mortgage providers keeps black kids segregated into poorly performing school districts? You want to show that a 35 year old white woman and a 35 year old Latina woman face differing mortality rates from the same version of breast cancer? You want to prove to a federal court why a case involving discriminatory promotion practices in the Air Force should be allowed to proceed in a civil court, not a military tribunal?

You’d better have aced your statistics classes. And know a LOT about the scientific method and how to prove or disprove a hypothesis using numbers. You’d sure need to understand the difference between causation and correlation, and how to interpret a regression analysis.

@brianboller - I believe Boho means Bohemian.

Writing a really great essay about an issue for which you have great passion, and four years of an EC, or two, that are related to that issue - accompanied by a class schedule with electives that reflect a passion in the issue (plus a high GPA and strong test scores) sounds like a successful strategy for college apps. thumbs up.

I took Brian’s advice re classes the other way - simply, choose wisely. A social justice/humanities kid might be better off taking a non-weighted Journalism elective class than AP Environmental Science class if he is like Jimmy’s son who’s interested in transgender rights rather than the environment. Yes, APES might boost his GPA a bit, but if there are no other indicators that Jimmy is interested in the environment, it’s not much help. Journalism class, on the other hand, might lead to Jimmy writing about transgender rights in school newspaper, landing internships at larger newspapers or advocacy groups, etc. from that standpoint, totally makes sense to me.

All, the point was don’t just be the perfect stats and rigor kid or you are more likely to be rejected. If you want to increase your odds in a holistic process it’s very hard to do if your application is just empty ECs, recommendations, and essays. @Blossom, I’m sure there are plenty of Brown applicants with a 1600, 4.0 UW GPA who are disappointed right now.

I’m really frustrated by the posts who think every kid who applies to UChicago has a 7% chance of acceptance. A basketball team who’s average FT percentage at 50%, doesn’t mean you foul the 90% FT shooter in the final minutes of a close game in hopes that she’ll miss one. My post was to give advice on how to be the 90% FT shooter.

@BrianBoiler, excellent, thoughtful, and helpful OP. Thank you.

@blossom, I cannot speak for OP, of course, but I took his AP advice differently (full disclosure: I’m a newbie here and only started (re)learning about the college application process a couple weeks back. To wit, I’m very open to other ideas and opinions). I saw OP’s comments, in short, more as “Don’t load up on AP’s just to load up on AP’s.”

FWIW, my son is more of a STEM-oriented kid, but he does well in English. So, I all but told him to take Honors English freshmen year. Then I spoke to other, better informed parents, other top hs students, as well as his GC. In short, they all recommended that if my son intends to “go all the way” in math, plus take AP Bio and AP Chem, there wasn’t any “need” to take Honors and then AP English as well. I also learned that the advanced English courses at his school actually demand massive quantities of homework. Well, I realize CC features amazing bio’s from utterly amazing students, but my son also swims and intends to volunteer tutoring math as well. What’s my point? HE ALSO NEED TO EAT AND SLEEP. How these amazing CC kids actually did what they did in hs, for four years, is beyond me. God bless them, but my son is a mere mortal.

Put another way, his school offers 20 AP courses. 20! If he has to take 12-16 AP classes, plus swim, plus volunteer, plus find his passion, plus take on leadership roles in EC’s, plus score 1550+ on his SAT, plus get amazing, unique LoR, plus write engaging, well-written, unique, and “quirky” essays demonstrating his passion, plus take on back-to-back-to-back meaningful, unique, challenging, summer projects at the local research university, to have a CHANCE at an elite school…then maybe State College U. won’t be such a bad choice after all…

@USCWolverine It isn’t as tough as you state. If your son has his passion, he should make sure the essay he has to write anyway includes that passion. If he is taking ECs they should hopefully reflect his passion. In essence, he doesn’t have to write an extra essay or do extra ECs. Just that his application should be easy to follow what he is passionate about. Blossom focused on the social justice aspect, I’m not saying it has to be social justice, just that it could be. If your son is a STEM guy, robotics club, or a summer class at UMICH on some STEM subject might be a good idea.

My second son runs XC, winter track and spring track. While not as demanding as swim practice at O Dark Thirty, he was practicing practically year round. He wove his passion for running into his application on why it makes him more competitive and how being a 4 time captain helped him learn leadership for which he would like to someday turn into a position of leadership in government…

At my kids HS, you needed special permission to take more than 4 AP’s senior year, and Junior’s were allowed 2. None allowed Freshman and sophomore year. So the idea of thinking that you have to take 16 AP’s is beyond my comprehension.

Yes- loading up on anything is approaching the situation from a position of weakness. No argument from me there. Quality not quantity. Two interesting EC’s vs. a laundry list of 14, including vague references to HS honors societies which don’t really do much. Again, no argument.

But not every kid admitted to Princeton or Dartmouth has a “passion”, and some of them even took both AP English and AP Chemistry (no need to decide at age 16 which path you are taking).

I

@USCWolverine If he has to take 12-16 AP classes"
he DOESNT.
IF, by the time he graduates , he has CHOSEN from among the " most rigorous classes" i.e. taking ONE AP class EACH from the Humanities, Foreign Lang[ if possible], Math, History and Science AP classes [ assuming he will have taken 4 years of English, 3 years of science with lab classes, 4 years Humanities] , AND takes classes he is interested in , he will be just fine. Stanford and other highly competitive colleges have said time and time again that it is a FALLACY that “those with the the most AP’s win”
If he takes 6-7 , AT MOST, over 4 years, that will be PLENTY!

And State college U is Never A BAD CHOICE.

Thanks, Brian. More useful stuff. You’ve clearly got a couple of bright kids. XC is no joke; respect those kids. Rain or shine, they’re out running. Period. Swim kids may have to get up early, but they essentially never have to get cold AND wet. :wink:

Always root for you guys over ND, btw. Thanks of the UM reference.

@menloparkmom is correct. The AP wars are crazy and unnecessary. My S supplemented his honors classes with AP World history (sophomore), AP English and Calc BC (junior year), and AP US Govt (senior). Worked out well.

@USCWolverine I also hoped you guys would win it all in basketball after Haas got hurt and missed the tournament. We never seem to get a good break in the tournament. Best of luck to your son.

I get it on the “Don’t take a bunch of random AP courses just for the sake of taking AP courses” but as with so much, “It depends!”

Not all high schools are the same. I think my son’s HS had limits similar to @blossom’s, and in reality the school just wasn’t able to offer a whole slew of AP courses.

Some things to consider, for example, what other courses are available to the student at his or her high school, if not AP courses? What other students are going to be in those courses, vs. what students are going to be in the AP courses? Which teachers teach those courses, and which teach the AP courses?

Make reasonable choices within the constraints you are under, make sure you take a rigorous and well-rounded selection that adequately reflects your interests (and explores new areas as well), and do well.

“Not all high schools are the same. I think my son’s HS had limits similar to @blossom’s, and in reality the school just wasn’t able to offer a whole slew of AP courses.”
Colleges KNOW that .
Students are evaluated based on what classes ARE available.

and again, the kids who take the most AP classes, because they are available, dont have a better chance of “winning”.
6-7AP classes is enough .

This is quickly turning into an excellent thread for parents with hs kids trying to figure out the whole AP “game,” and i’m sure there are many of us.

@blossom and @menloparkmom, great thoughts from you both. Perhaps I should have made myself more clear. I was NOT implying that either of you (or anyone, for that matter) were recommending my boy take 12-16 AP classes.* I was merely alluding to the many applicants on CC who, in fact, did take that many AP classes, at least as listed on their “chance me” and/or “admitted students to XYZ college” threads.

*In fact, perhaps the “star” of my son’s hs’s junior class is on-track to complete 12 AP classes by graduation. He’s also a high level (not D1) swimmer, and the rumor is he scored a perfect score (36?) on his ACT. The young man will finish AP Calc BC JUNIOR year–IMO amazing, but I suppose around here (CC) it’s NBD…

No, that’s a big deal.