Canada! and Unions! the solution to every engineers dilemma

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Alright I figured out the solution to everyone that is afraid of the job market and stabilty of engineering
One: go to school and then live in Canada
Two: If you want to stay unionize and fight outsourcing and poor treatment with the union!
Canada is a major player in the world economy with almost as much oil as Saudi Arabia and a huge industrial heartland and a much better social climate in my opinion , I'm a huge social liberal yep very liberal can't you tell
In Canada engineers have a 90% faith in the job market
In the States 49% nowhere near as good.
So the solution to everyones worries about job layoffs and a poor market is if you want to stay in America form a union/pressure group or move to the home of the free and democracy and the worlds greatest country</p>

<p>Canada Eh?
Awesome!!!
GO CANADA!!!</p>

2

<p>Hey, why stop there. Why not go to France and enjoy them 35 hour work weeks and 5-week vacation to start, and all the good cheese and champagne?</p>

<p>Oh wait, they have a 10% unemployment rate.</p>

3

<p>Yeah so will america at least among engineers if they don't unionize
and most people who are with an type of degree in france are employed sakky</p>

<p>PS I heart France too I love all of europe! France is one of the only countries that is a real social democracy!</p>

<p>PPS This country probably wil soon have like 20%-40% unemployment.I hate america so much now thanks Bush the II for destroying democracy.I wish clinton could run again,He was awesome!</p>

4

<p>Must ignore socialist trolls rrrrgggh, ah, heck....</p>

<p>If any American engineer truly believes that he or she would do better in a unionized engineering work force, then, please, move to Canada and raise the average intelligence of both countries.</p>

<p>Arrggh. Sorry.</p>

<p>Down scope. Going deep....</p>

5

<p>that's why you live in virginia you...insensitive clod now if socialism is bad why is it that I'm in Vermont right now just next to Canada and do NOT see any Quebec plates WHY? what's that you say? well, because they have good health care in canada and it's free and that is a good thing!Unions are amazing if workers don't unite than they remain powerless! Dammit you conservatives are only hurting yourself if your are middle or working class and if your rich well than your reasons are obvious</p>

6

<p>Well, I don't know if you want to have a serious conversation about this or not, but the fact is, a significant braindrain has existed from Canada to the US for many decades now, and is considered to be a perennial sociopolitical issue in Canada. Basically, many good Canadian engineers tend to move to the US, but few US engineers move to Canada. If what you are saying is true and Canada really was a better place to work, then why would this be the case?</p>

7

<p>theres job stability in canada and higher pay in US, just depends on what you prefer</p>

8

<p>The brain drain is for one thing exaggerated and for another thing it does mostly come down to that saleries are higher in the States.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
The brain drain is for one thing exaggerated and for another thing it does mostly come down to that saleries are higher in the States

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Exactly, but then you have to ask, why is that? After all, if the situation for engineers was REALLY bad in the US, then US salaries would decline to the point that cross-border salaries would equilibrate. That's basic economics. </p>

<p>However, the bottom line is still that more Canadians immigrate to the US to work than vice versa. Any way you cut it, that must mean that the US working situation, for all its faults, is still preferable to more people than is the Canadian working situation.</p>

<p>
[quote]
theres job stability in canada and higher pay in US, just depends on what you prefer

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This I can agree with. And I would say there would be even MORE job stability if you choose to work in Europe. </p>

<p>But again, I would point out that there are plenty of Europeans working in the US, but not as many Americans working in Europe (except as expats, but expats don't count because you're still working under American conditions as an expat, just in a foreign office).</p>

10

<p>NerdexCore, just go. The border is open. It's obvious that sakky's well-reasoned arguments will fall on deaf ears. You've already convinced yourself.</p>

<p>What kind of engineer are you? Maybe we can help you with your search. You are an engineer, aren't you? I'm sure that Canada has some openings.</p>

<p>I honestly believe that a socialist will simply not be happy in the United States. There are too many people like me who will oppose everthing you stand for. This is not meant as a personal attack, it's just a fact. Spare yourself some grief and look into emigration. I understand France and Sweden are nice places for socialists, too. Again, no attack intended--just the facts of life.</p>

<p>You sound young. Do you really want to spend your life hating your country and (most of) the people in it? Despising your leaders and representatives? You need to have the courage of your convictions! Go North, young man!</p>

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<p>--"NerdexCore, just go. The border is open. It's obvious that sakky's well-reasoned arguments will fall on deaf ears. You've already convinced yourself"</p>

<p>What?? NerdexCore seems to have an extremely valid point about engineering (particulary computer engineering)! Engineers should unionize again large corporations. Heck, if doctors (who make 200k+) think they need to unionize, then why not the 80k engineer??</p>

<p>Bill Gates and other ceos are always griping about the fact that there is a "shortage" of engineers....well, if that was the case, engineers would be making decent salaries and have a steady job. Everyone knows that engineers are always getting laid off....moving to an union in canada might be the best thing for them to do!</p>

12

<p>Redbeard just go away!
Socialism beats any other system hands down if their's still the good parts of capitalism in it. Like in guess where...? that's right. Canada!</p>

<p>I do think that the central issue has nothing to do with with money and immigration although I think Canada one up'd The States there but more with perceptions and yes I have every right to hate the president he is a a nothing a sick little monkey who is destorying democracy as well as America's economy and talent pool what with No child left behind and such but back to perceptions in Canada engineering is much more respected and their have far far far far greater job security and make very good salaries. In fact in comparision. 95% of engineers have good satisfaction and 90% have a good career outlook in Canada. American engineers tell a different tale though.
around 78% have good job statistfaction and even many like their jobs many
feel their career outlook is limited around 83% I have heard these and they are the rough statistics.
other stuff to ponder
How come no outsourcing from canada?
why is it 4th in the world for math and science scores on a test America places 32nd out of around 40?
Why are degrees in engineering steady in Canada and Europe and not in America?
Well I hope that this makes you think eh?</p>

13

<p>Hmm. Stream of consciousness, ad hominem attacks, and arguments from authority. Do either of you find that this form of discussion actually changes minds?</p>

<p>"Everyone knows that engineers are always getting laid off." </p>

<p>Sorry, I don't think I "know" that. Nor does the Labor Dept, nor do the many engineering schools discussed on this thread. I guess, technically, it's true. Somewhere in America on any given week more than one engineer is getting laid off. This is probably not true under socialism. The reality of engineering careers is far, far different: wild ups and downs, re-inventing oneself, new applications, new technologies, new majors, etc. Sure, there are layoffs. They are not the end of the world, however, and they are small blips in an otherwise sparkling adventure.</p>

<p>"Heck, if doctors (who make 200k+) think they need to unionize, then why not the 80k engineer??"</p>

<p>According to Statistics Canada, the Canadian government's data collector, 100 doctors emigrate to the US for every doctor that moves North. They must be packing them in in those Canadian union halls.</p>

<p>And, as for the engineering unions in Canada, could you provide a link? I can't seem to find any evidence that Canada has any unions of DESIGN engineers (mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc.) There are operating engineer unions and locomotive engineer unions, but the electrical and mechanical engineers seem to be organized only in professional societies--as they are in the US.</p>

<p>I repeat my earlier question: are either of you engineers? If so, what kind?</p>

<p>Nerdex's satisfaction statistics are curious, although it is difficult to decypher your syntax. Would it be so hard to insert a period at the end of your sentences? I think you're saying surveys show Canadian engineers have more job satisfaction and a much better "career outlook". I don't refute the study (although a citation would be nice, eh?). I can only say that engineering in the US has been an exciting, enriching, and challenging experience--a journey of the mind and spirit--for me and for thousands of my cohorts. It keeps me young. </p>

<p>But, I will never convince you. This, I know. </p>

<p>As for encouraging me to "leave", I thought about it. Briefly. But, after forty years of hard work, service in uniform in defense of this great nation, and a lifelong commitment to the ideals this country was founded on, I decided it would be better to remain. I feel blessed by every breath of American air I take.</p>

<p>You?</p>

14

<p>and as if you couldn't tell I feel sick in america
I hate the Ol' USA
It'll fade away
Can't you see It?</p>

<p>And know I am not an engineer just an aspring one who knows way more than you!</p>

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<p>NerdexCore, you're being horribly offensive. Cut it out. Now.</p>

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<p>Alright I'm done, geez don't get your hackles up.
I'll cut it out
redbeard if you don't like Canada leave it alone</p>

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<p>Nerdex, you have a lot to learn. Search for some of Marite's posts - she grew up in France, has family there, and is well acquinted with the employment situation. According to her, many companies there are reluctant to hire workers because they will incur huge liabilities by doing so. Medical care in Europe can be disastrous - no where near as good as what we have here. Odd how people want universal health care before something like universal housing. </p>

<p>Please - educate yourself before you convince yourself that you are right and everyone else is evil.</p>

<p>Don't be an engineer. Given the way you feel, you are ill-suited to spend four grueling years pursuing a degree that you find to be useless. I thought that the engineering education was more difficult than law school - just as a point of reference. I will strongly discourage anyone from going into either field who does not passionately desire the end product: the degree and the job opportunities that it represents.</p>

<p>I'm no longer an engineer but still feel that the degree was valuable. I left a lucrative, stable, intellectually stimulating career - of my own volition. Engineering can really be a fabulous career - no, it's not i-banking, but the hours are reasonable, the pay is very solid, companies will reimburse for advanced degrees (including MBAs), and it's very flexible for things like part-time work. </p>

<p>IMO, unions have outlived their usefulness. I've seen the negative side of unions - companies cannot get rid of poor workers. This goes from the Fortune 500 companies down to public schools that can't fire horrible teachers. I've heard of strike breakers that outperformed the union workers - set records for orders filled and did it in half the time that it took the union workers. Job stability is a good goal but it often comes at the expense of having good workers. Massachusetts has some very restrictive laws: essentially, no matter how horribly union workers are, they cannot be fired. For example, during a strike, a union worker can curse at women who work there, call them names that are not suitable to be mentioned here, and nothing happens - they will stilll have a job waiting for them. What is the motivation to work well? To be a respectable human when you are disagreeing with your corporation?</p>

<p>I concur about loving America. Maybe that's why I live in the South. I loved working in military defense technology. I'm so very thankful to be an American. People starve, drown, and die every day trying to get to this country. I imagine that many people in the world would happily give their lives for their children to have the opportunities that you do - you, who hates this country because... well, not sure why. Because it's capitalist? Because we aren't slowly moving towards communism? Because we push government back and don't let it control our lives? Because we try to face head-on problems that tear other countries apart - such as allowing people of different races, socioeconomic status, and religion to live together in a civilised manner?</p>

18

<p>America is a failure at all the things that you think it has succeded at.
The last I've heard of people trying to drown to get in this country was under Clinton.I would say that free health care is far more easy to acive then free housing which besides the goverment shouldn't give it to the rich anyway.
capitialism is an explotive system that most be controled it is in no way perferable to communism in it's extreme form here in the States
It is unwelcoming towards people who aren't well lets see...Christian and I won't say White most people aren't as racist anymore but it stills exsits. So what groups are discriminated against? Atheists for instance.Gays
incredibly of course how would you like it if your told you were sick and couldn't marry and were...You know what I won't do as well feed into all your right-wing nonsense.Your all prejudice and stupid.I'm not except to conservatives who are subhuman.You work in milltary defence? You kill people for a living.you are evil. you make me sick.This whole part you spew is garbarge.</p>

<p>I concur about loving America. Maybe that's why I live in the South.<br>
I loved working in military defense technology. I'm so very thankful
to be an American. People starve, drown, and die every day trying to
get to this country. I imagine that many people in the world would
happily give their lives for their children to have the opportunities that
you do - you, who hates this country because... well, not sure why.<br>
Because it's capitalist? Because we aren't slowly moving towards
communism? Because we push government back and don't let it control our lives?<br>
Because we try to face head-on problems that tear other countries apart
- such as allowing people of different races, socioeconomic status, and
religion to live together </p>

<p>Because none of it is true.
It's a lie
The USA will die
I hope
It is no longer a democracy
It is backwords socially
It is backwords in general
And It is a corporate state
When I voice a liberal opinion then it is considered wrong why becuase it's liberal, well that's america
I hope it dies and yes I do hate it because of people like you.
Who destroyed the little good about this country
I HATE "AMERICA"
CORPORATE GREED CENTERAL
HOME OF THE ALMIGHTY DOLLOR AND "AMERICAN IDOL" EVERYONE AN IDIOT IN AMERICA sooo.........</p>

<p>**** YOU AMERICA</p>

19

<p>too lazy to read you peoples babble but socialism only works in theory and it sucks.</p>

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<p>there isnt much of a diff between canada and us. Basically they have free healthcare and we dont, thats the gist of it.</p>