<p>Just curious what opinions you may have on Canadian Universities re their vocal performance programs/faculty. Soprano D is accepted at both UBC & U of T (and several others) as well as on the waiting list at Eastman. She would love to get into Eastman, but the cost for the 4 yr degree would be approx. 4 times the price of the Canadian schools.
Would the money be better spent for a "prestigious" masters degree??</p>
<p>I am not familiar with BM Vocal, but I do know grads from the UT and UBC schools of music (instrumental/composition programs) who had no difficulty pursuing grad school in the US (and fully funded). I have lived in the US for years but am originally from Canada, and truthfully, I’d have a hard time in your shoes spending the additional $. But that is a program and teacher-specific situation/election that should be tailored to your needs. Worth $200k? Not to my mind, and not in an industry that can be hit and miss in terms of reliable employment.</p>
<p>Did she look at McGill as well? </p>
<p>At any rate, I might be inclined to say “the money would be better saved” because in truth, you might not have to spend it in grad school.</p>
<p>Mine, however, might be the minority opinion on this one, given my comparative vocal ignorance and general shock and awe at the cost of private or out-of-state tuition in the U.S. We have a bit of an “edifice” complex here that really seems to drive up the price of the infrastructure and an unregulated private student-loan-free-for-all that gives no incentives to the universities to make any effort to keep their costs in line with inflation (or even FOURFOLD inflation) or the concept of socioeconomic access ;)</p>
<p>Best wishes in your selection.</p>
<p>While I don’t know specifics about UBC’s and U of T’s vocal programs, their music programs are generally good. Certainly the overall quality and variety of non-music electives available at both is superior to 99% of schools south of the border. </p>
<p>With vocalists, the school of undergrad study scarcely correlates with later success/achievement; i.e. successful vocalists come from a huge variety of schools whereas a large percentage of successful instrumentalists come from a very small number of schools. </p>
<p>I would be disinclined to spend the extra $200k on Eastman for a vocalist’s undergrad. </p>
<p>Just be certain that your child has a good studio teacher.</p>
<p>I’m not usually the person who does links, but for what’s it’s worth here is the experience of someone who did a Canadian music school tour.<br>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/675555-my-experience-canada.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/675555-my-experience-canada.html</a></p>
<p>I don’t know that much about either one, for I have yet to go through the college admissions process, however, another student in my teacher’s studio goes to UBC and comes back down here when she has breaks. I met with her once and talked about school, she did not recommend UBC, and neither does my teacher. Something about the theory department, and putting a lot of focus on things that do not matter for anyone, making classes hard to pass. The girl was a senior in her fifth year at UBC. She said that they do work on several styles, not just classical, but if she could do it over again, she would go to school in the U.S. Of course, it could be a wonderful place for other people. There are very successful singers that have attended UBC for undergrad. I’ve read good things about their faculty on the New Forum, etc. Talk to your daughter’s teacher about what they think, and if they have any students that have attended those schools.</p>
<p>Always hear good things about McGill, of course, and from what I’m hearing now, there is one teacher at the U of T that is very good.
Knowing what we’re paying for school here, if you can find a suitable program and teacher in Canada, paying the difference for a VP degree from Eastman is not worth the difference.</p>
<p>Yes, UBC’s academic standards are high: as I mentioned previously, much higher than most US schools, so if one is weak academically, then UBC might not be a good fit. Most Canadian universities still maintain rigorous academic standards that put them on par with the top 10% of US colleges/universities and UBC is one of Canada’s strongest universities. I have heard similar comments about U of T and McGill. </p>
<p>Because of Canada’s system of Royal Conservatory theory exams that most Canadian music students take prior to college, most Canadian students majoring in music have a strong background in music theory (harmony, analysis, counterpoint) prior to entering university. I think this tends to raise the bar and consequently some US students find it difficult to keep up with the theory courses at Canadian universities. </p>
<p>When my son was doing his auditions, he attended a couple of music major theory classes at prestigious US institutions, and was very surprised at how slow the pace was and how much difficulty many of the students had with simple theory ideas. Generally Canadian universities have a reputation for having less grade inflation, much less academic support for students, and more traditional curricula. Canadian profs are not afraid to fail students. Class averages below 50% are not unheard of (although in music theory classes, the class averages would tend to be around 70%–I haven’t heard of any failing class averages in music theory classes).</p>
<p>^Violindad – You did a great job summing up exactly the difference – and the nuances. Folks at my son’s US HS thought I had three heads when I tried to explain what was wrong with the music dept. (that they were further cutting.) I brought them in a 12u music curriculum (my brother in law teaches at a Cdn performing arts school/program) in an effort to help them understand that music is actually “academic” too ;)</p>
<p>I’ll also throw something else in that came from a dear friend close to the inner-workings of a large and reputable music theatre co. Allegedly, folks like Andrew Lloyd Webber really like mounting complicated shows in Cda due to the quality of MT talent available. Which inclines me to believe someone somewhere is teaching great voice ;)</p>
<p>Does your daughter have her teacher assignment yet at U of T? When my daughter was accepted (BM Voice), she would not have known until mid-June if her first choice teacher could take her. She could not wait that long, as she had to commit to another school. UBC is very opera-oriented, even for undergrad.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input! She does not have any teacher assignments yet. She gets to put down preference, but you don’t find out who you were assigned to until much later. I know the advice here is usually to pick your teacher first, school second, but it seems to be difficult to go that route at a lot of schools.<br>
She is very interested in opera, and one of the pluses for UBC is that they have a B.M. in both Vocal performance and Opera. She has already been accepted into the opera program. I understand the curriculum does not differ too much between the two, but you get to take some different electives and leave out a few of the more general ones.
As to theory, I think that maybe Canadian students have the advantage here as Violindad mentioned. D had to write theory exams at most schools she applied to, and found most of them fairly easy after having completed her Royal Conservatory exams, and taking theory at her arts high school for the last 4 years.
McGill was on our list too, and she did get an audition there, but sadly no luck at acceptance time.</p>
<p>Eastman doesn’t promise the voice teacher before May 1 either, but you do put down your requests. D got her first choice, and has been very happy with the result. It’s still very expensive, even with a very good merit scholarship.</p>
<p>I’m not certain how much contact your daughter has had with her preferred voice teachers at her prospective schools, but it might be worthwhile to contact them to see what her chances are of getting in to their studios. </p>
<p>They may say that they won’t know until assignments are made, but, on the other hand, they may be able to give you helpful information like “very small chance” or “you are in already.” </p>
<p>McGill, for example, doesn’t give official assignments until late August, but many teachers are able to tell students in March or April that students are in their studios and I have yet to see the official assignment differ from the unofficial info given earlier.</p>
<p>When teacher assignment is such a critical factor, it is very difficult to make an informed decision about what school to attend when lacking any information about teacher assignment. I think that most teachers understand this and will be sympathetic to requests for information about one’s chances of getting into their studio. If nothing else, the request sends the signal that your daughter wants to be in their studio.</p>
<p>Sorry to hear about McGill; Schulich seems to be very selective with vocalists.</p>
<p>Oh how I wish that American schools would tighten their academic standards, violindad! To compound the problem, our FERPA law makes it so that teachers don’t have any idea what students are getting in other classes, so you see kids with Ds knocking themselves out in performances while their grades fall even further. After they do so poorly, not showing up and generally being totally uninterested in the work, a teacher will pass them on just so as not to have to deal with them yet again( Some that already have performing careers are passed even though they are constantly away from classes and don’t do the work at all). Parents are surprised to find out, in senior year, that their darling is not going to graduate with their class and more money is needed for the additional semesters required to fulfill degree.
Something needs to be done, but with our hamstringing regulations, our students are being shortchanged.</p>