Candidate Visit - anything new?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Military Academy - West Point
1

<p>Hi - My son is having a very hard time making a decision as whether to attend or not. He went to SLS last summer, and we're a military family, we've lived at West Point, so he knows the deal. But I am thinking that once we hear from a few more schools here at the end of March, it might be smart for him to do a candidate visit in April. He wonders if it will make him more confused as he says he is fully capable of picturing himself as a student at several places, picturing himself as a cadet, etc.</p>

<p>So my q is: for those who've done candidate visits, did it really help give you a true sense of West Point, or was it more of what you already heard and experienced at SLS, i.e.: is it a worthwhile trip (would include purchasing plane tickets)? Does it help someone who is at this turning point in their decision making?</p>

2

<p>We are also a military family, and have spent time as part of the West Point community. In addition, my son's older brother is a current cadet (2008). It was my older son who really pushed his brother to come and do an overnight visit before making his decision. In his opinion, no matter what they think they know, getting even a small taste of it can make a difference. As you know, SLS is nothing like when the corps is in the barracks. He went further and insisted his brother come during the coldest part of winter to "know what it feels like to stand in formation in the dark with frost forming on your eyebrows, 'cause it's not like waiting for the bus all bundled up". :-) </p>

<p>Seriously, my youngest did feel like the visit was worth the cost, and than it helped him make a solid decision.</p>

3

<p>The visit made me fall in love and forget about Cornell and the ivies. That was when my heart called USMA home.</p>

<p>Not to sound really lame or sappy or anything.</p>

4

<p>I think it all depends on who the Plebe is that shows you around. I had an excellent summer seminar squad leader and a total douche for my candidate visit. She wasn't very squared away and made me lose a little bit of faith in USMA as a system.</p>

5

<p>Sorry to hear that cadet0509- I liked the girl who took me around, she was really down to earth and very calm and confident. I think just being around her, the basketball team's table and the people I encountered, it made a really deep impact for me. At no other college was I approached by students, welcomed or otherwise spoken to aside from the tour guide.</p>

<p>I think she really humanized the place in comparison to the documentaries my parents make me watch to try to scare me out of it. If only they knew what I went through at circus camp. <em>shudder</em></p>

6

<p>momof07: I would say "yes" your son should do the overnight visit. Overnighting during the academic year is nothing like SLS. He will have the opportunity to ask cadets questions and feel the true WP environment first hand. My son did not have a great overnight experience, but it was good that he had the reality check. My son always wanted WP (I could barely get him to apply to his backup schools) and it did not stop him from accepting his appointment. He does not regret that decision - and is as happy as any plebe can be :). It may help your son decide either way - which would be good. Good luck to your son.</p>

7

<p>Even with an LOA, don't withdraw from your alternate schools or you might end up someplace not nearly as nice as your alternatives were.</p>

8

<p>On the topic of the overnight visits, what would be appropriate/is expected for a visitor to wear? Should s/he bring anything?</p>

9

<p>Bring a nice collared shirt and khakis; don't bring a suit or anything, just something respectable. Also bring something to work out/run in, because chances are your escort will have practice or will want to work out on their own. As for shoes, make sure they're comfortable enough to wear all day. Basically, don't look like a slob, but be aware that you will be wearing these clothes pretty much all day, so make sure they're comfortable. </p>

<p>As for visits, I agree with cadet0509; it all depends on you're plebe escort, as well as the company that they're in.</p>

10

<p>AndrewZ:</p>

<p>My daughter is doing an overnight this week. When she set up her orientation, she received a confirmation email of the day/night. In that email it gives all the details regarding what she should bring and wear, what time to report, etc. It's very detailed. </p>

<p>We visited WP over the summer and did the bus tour, but I think it's important for her to really know what she's getting into. She is sure that there is nothing that she can see there that will make her change her mind, but I still want her to do this. Of course, she's very excited and really looking forward to it.</p>

<p>Having two older sons already in college, I feel that it's extremely important for you to visit any college/academy that you plan on applying to. You just never know what detail you'll see there that will totally make you change your mind.</p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>

11

<p>My son was just accepted and I am actually trying to do all I can to dissuade him - he has some fine other options. I want him to be 100% bedrock certain on July 2nd. I am not playing games as I am pretty sure he will be there for the Beast. But I think the right thing to do is to make sure he truly wants this. West Point insists on an 18 year old making decisions most of us didnt have to make until we were late 20s (home kids careers etc).</p>

<p>The point I am making is I wonder if a candidate visit really has much to do with anything, and if it does could the candidate be going down the wrong track?</p>

<p>For my son, my only advice, beyond trying to point out all the advantages to his other choices, is that West Point is not a college or university, but a "calling". It really doesnt offer comparison.</p>

12

<p>"My son was just accepted and I am actually trying to do all I can to dissuade him"
While I think the parent's role is to make sure the candidate has all of the information they need to make an informed choice, I do not think it is our role to dissuade them from their choice. </p>

<p>"West Point insists on an 18 year old making decisions most of us didnt have to make until we were late 20s (home kids careers etc)."
Cadets have 2 years to change their mind with no commitment.</p>

<p>Yes - it is a calling and I admire and am grateful to each and every cadet who rises to the challenge.</p>

<p>Admissions will tell you that overnight visits are very important - they are very open about the rigors of WP life as a cadet and do not want the candidate to be "surprised" after they arrive.</p>

<p>As a parent I believe that my role is to be supportive - no matter what the candidate's decision is - and it should be the candidate's decision.</p>

13

<p>Ann</p>

<p>Respectfully</p>

<p>If an overnight stay at West Point amounts to any major change in the applicant's decision one way or the other, that can only be a negative.</p>

<p>This is not a visit to a university. It is not a sales spiel. I completely, and respectfully, disagree with the importance of a visit. I think an overnight to Fort Benning would be more useful.</p>

<p>We live close to West Point, so maybe I am taking for granted the incredible sense of place and the weight of history that is at there - it is like no other place. BUt that one can understand clearly in about 10 minutes.</p>

<p>My role as a parent is to prepare as best I can my son to be a credit to his country if he so chooses to serve, and make sure he understands the full implications of the sacrifice he is about to make.</p>

<p>If I am being tricky it is because I know an overnight visit would confirm in his mind that he should go to West Point. I am pretty sure he is going anyway. I want to do all I can to make sure he is aware he has a choice. On July 2nd, the door shuts.</p>

<p>You are wrong about "he can leave in 2 years" - true he can without financial penalty or without being dishonarably discharged. But to "fail" would be a very serious detriment and stigma for him. It is also very hard to pick up the other options that are avilable now, if not impossible. So any reasonable person should be very reluctant to think there is an out after July 2nd. Or if that "out" is an important calculus - one should not go.</p>

<p>In the end - neither of our views amounts to much. I just want to help in anyway I can so my son is empowered as much as possible to find satisfaction in his choice such that I see him on A-Day. I do not think over night visits means anything in that regard.</p>

<p>My point is that West Point is a calling, a life's calling, and has little to do with one good or bad weekend visit. In fact if one went for a weekend vist and was wavering and ended spending time being persuaded by some cadets - what a disaster that could lead to.</p>

14

<p>FatProp:
You misunderstand the role of the overnight visit. It is not a sales spiel with cadets persuading candidates to attend (on the contrary you will be surprised by the number of cadets who will tell candidates not to attend)...It is however, an opportunity for candidates to experience WP during the academic year - attend classes, sleep in the barracks, interact with cadets, see the cadet leadership system in practice, attend sports practice. WP offers a challenging environment that has an academic, physical and military component that stretches cadets to the limit. Admissions would prefer that there are no surprises. The goal is for candidates to be sure that it is a challenge that they want before they accept an appointment. The goal is to set the candidates up for success not failure. If candidates do not believe that the WP environment is for them, admissions want candidates to decline the appointment. If a candidate reports on R-day and then quits because he/she was not prepared (yes ? some quit as early as R-day), that slot cannot be refilled. Remember, WP has more qualified applicants than it can accept.
It goes without saying that candidates should want to serve as an officer in the US military after they graduate.
Good luck to you son with his decision.</p>

15

<p>FatProp, </p>

<p>As you have probably surmised, most of the posters to this forum are biased in favor of the military academies. So expect some polite, or not so polite, reactions to your stated goal to dissuade your son from attending USMA. </p>

<p>That said, I respect your right to prefer a non-academy choice for your son and your right, if not responsibility, to try to influence your son to choose a path that you think best serves his future. That's a parent's responsibility in my opinion.</p>

<p>I would ask that your take some time to consider that very few, if any, cadets look back with regret at their time at USMA. Although many USMA graduates ultimately decide that they do not want to become career military officers, I have never met a USMA graduate that would trade their USMA experience for any other.</p>

16

<p>Good morning Aspen,
My posting was not meant to be impolite, and was not inspired by a pro military stance.<br>
If I read the subtleties of what has been posted, the question FatProp is posing is not one of “should my son attend the Academy?”, but rather one of “is the military the best place for his career and future?” The overnight visit will not answer that question. I understand the emotion behind that second question – I have been there too. The overnight visit is very helpful for those who know they want to serve in the army as an officer (8 yr commitment), but are not sure if Academy life is for them. Admissions wants candidates to have the full picture. Every accepted candidate is encouraged to visit overnight.
FatProp has said that he believes that an overnight visit would confirm his son’s decision and worries that cadets will “sell the institution” to him and lead his son down the wrong path. I believe that is a misconception. The intent behind the visit is to show candidates the rigors of academy life (good, bad and ugly), not to persuade the wavering to attend. I believe that it would be wrong to withhold this part of the picture from any candidate. Of course everyone has the right to their own opinion, and others may disagree. I hope this has clarified where I am coming from. I am not attacking anyone’s right to give their child parental guidance, or encouraging anyone to join the military. As I have said, the decision to join the military is a separate question and not the focus of this thread.</p>

17

<p>Ann,</p>

<p>Although you were the one responding to FatProp, my comments were not directed at your postings. Sorry for any offense you may have taken. I did not think your comments were impolite. </p>

<p>My comments were directed to FatProp only and based on my recollection of previous responses by CC members when someone posted a direct or indirect criticism of academies.</p>

18

<p>Aspen,
Thanks for clarifying - no offense taken.</p>

19

<p>Ann,</p>

<p>I think that you were quite accurate, respectful and informative in answering FatProp's posting.</p>

<p>FatProp,</p>

<p>I totally understand how you're feeling. My daughter did an overnight the beginning of April. She had already decided that the Academy is where she wanted to go, but I needed to know that she REALLY knew what she is getting into. </p>

<p>I must also say that she wasn't always so sure. When she first mentioned applying, my impression was that she wanted to see if she could get in, not so much that she wanted to be in the Army. I was concerned and went over all the advantages and disadvantages that I could think of. I wanted to make sure that she understood that it is a way of life; as you said "a calling". I agree with you on that point. During the application process, I could see that she really had been thinking it through, and it was no surprise when she told me she was sure that WP is where she wanted to go. After that, I knew that she was determined, but that didn't keep me from periodically asking if she was sure. You're right when you say that an eighteen year old is very young to make a life-altering decision. </p>

<p>I have two older sons, both at college. When I took them for their college orientations, it was definitely a sales job, and not a very accurate one at that. I believe when I took my daughter for her overnight, it was a true look at the life she'll lead. She needed to see that, and I guess I needed to see her in the environment. She didn't feel that anyone there pressured her, one way or another, nor could anyone have persuaded her with anything anyway. She came away feeling that she was making a good decision.</p>

<p>Your son is making the best decision for himself that he is capable of making at this time in his life. It may not be your choice for him, as my choice for my daughter isn't the military, but it's not your choice. That hasn't been easy for me to accept. But the fact is, my daugher is strong, independent, smart and more than capable of being a great cadet and an excellent officer. Your son is, too. That's how you raised him. </p>

<p>I found that not only did she learn a few things during her overnight, but I did too. I saw that she really belonged there. Of course, I didn't want to see that. But there it was, right in my face. Have him do the overnight; he might change his mind about going. Or, maybe you just need to see him in that environment to feel more comfortable with his decision. </p>

<p>I know you're proud of him, and scared for him. Being a parent is the hardest thing in the world. And the worst part is letting go.</p>

20

<p>I'll weigh in on the topic with 2 stories, one mine and one of a family I know.</p>

<p>When my daughter received her appointment and invitation for an overnight visit, she quickly accepted the appointment but declined to visit. Her reasoning included the fact that she had been to SLS (IAW). Even though this was not a "real" experience it was the school she felt she should attend. She was very busy during her senior year and couldn't afford to take a couple days off. Most interesting to me was her comment that if it was a great overnight visit, it wouldn't change her mind as she was convinced this was what she would do. If it was one of the horrible visits that she had heard about, she still wouldn't change her mind. She was going to R-Day and would graduate 4 years later. I brought up the topic of a visit a few times, but she was confident (stubborn?) in her decision.</p>

<p>Second story. I know a woman whose son accepted an appointment. He had been recruited for a sport. He loved the idea of attending West Point. however his family did not. They tried to talk him out of it, but couldn't. Every time they talked to him they asked him when he would just quit and come back home. Why? They didn't want him to be in the Army. They kept talking about him dying. He quit during the first year.</p>

<p>I wish all the kids - and parents - here the best with the decision making process. No matter what the decision - accept, decline, quit later - the kids need the support of their parents and friends for their own decision.</p>