<p>I have always had a very high regard of Harvard as one of the very best schools in the world. So, as DD started her application process as a senior, I made sure she have Harvard on her list.</p>
<p>DD resisted a lot about that, keeping saying she does want to apply to Harvard. It turns out, the parents of a classmate are both Harvard alumnus. They told DD so many nagetive things about Harvard. Things like, students there are so competitive that they are on each's face all the time and that they will step over other to get somewhere, that Harvard graduates will have a hard time getting a job because employer will think they will ask for high salary, etc etc. </p>
<p>I have not comfronted these two individuals yet. But, why talk so negatively about Harvard?</p>
<p>Prestige has a price. Sometimes it brings out the ugly side of individuals. Then again, there are always going to be ambitious folks willing to step on others wherever one goes to college or work.</p>
<p>"I have not comfronted these two individuals yet. But, why talk so negatively about Harvard?"</p>
<p>So, 2 alum speak badly about Harvard. Could be they didn't like their experience (That happens). Could be, too, they're trying to downplay Harvard's advantages so as to not look like they are braggarts.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, it's not like we see lots of Harvard graduates begging on street corners....</p>
<p>Meanwhile, as I've posted before, if one is looking for a warm, fuzzy college experience or wants to go to a place that's very rah rah over its sports teams, Harvard isn't the place. While the undergraduate students tend not to be ultracompetitive with each other over classwork (They can be very competitive with each other, though, vying for spots on some of the extracurriculars such as the newspaper), they do tend to be very intense people with the kind of self confidence and outspokenness that would be considered brash and egotistical outside of the big cities in the NE. So, depending on where the Harvard alum whom you know came from, what they may have been reacting to were the cultural differences between Boston and their hometowns.</p>
<p>I've seen that in my prior work experience where employers (rightly or wrongly) assume that someone from a big-name school wants a big-name salary. Some employers want those graduates and the experiences/education they bring; others don't. I worked at one of the big-name benefit consulting firms and most of their entry-level consulting track hiring (recent college grads) came from state universities or local privates. In my department, the Duke undergrad was the exception and wasn't promoted faster than anyone else.</p>
<p>We have a friend who graduated from Harvard and has struggled mightily with the high-tech economy in the Boston area. Has fabulous skills, lots of experience, but the start-up/contracting life is not good when one has three kids. It's feast or famine, and he hasn't found many alternatives.</p>
<p>They probably talked negatively about Harvard to discourage other applicants from the same high school to apply, thus eliminating some of the competition when all the applicants from the same high school are compared. It may not sound very logical, but I do know some people who do this.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have not comfronted these two individuals yet. But, why talk so negatively about Harvard?
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</p>
<p>Could it be that they actually are stating their honest opinions? I didn't go to any one of them, but if I had an educational (strictly educational) experience to choose for my daughter, here's my list: Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Reed, Vassar, Pomona, etc. not necessarily in that order. I note that a friend getting his PhD from Berkeley (he had gone to Stanford and Johns Hopkins as well) indicated that the best-prepared students among his peers hadn't gone to Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/Berkeley/UCLA but to the likes of these smaller schools.</p>
<p>I think it's possible that these people are thinking or saying these things for any number of reasons -- and one possibility is that they are saying exactly what they think.</p>
<p>Why are you so hung up on Harvard? And why should their opinion matter so much if Harvard is clearly in fact a great fit for your daughter? If they are in fact trying to game the system as Harvard09 indicated, they are proving their own contention about Harvard behavior. The better reflection on Harvard, ironically, is that they are just telling the truth as they see it.</p>
<p>One of my D's high school EC advisors was a Harvard grad, and when he found out she had been admitted and was going to attend he said, "Give the finger to the John Harvard statue for me!" (Apparently he didn't like it there very much - he said his parents made him attend). While we thought this was humorous, I was privately worried that it might not be such a great place after all. </p>
<p>Fast forward to now: D is extremely happy at Harvard so far; so much so that she couldn't wait to go back there after Christmas. She said she finally feels like she "is in her element."</p>
<p>Obviously, Harvard isn't for everyone, but for those who "fit," its awesome.</p>
<p>They're parents of a senior classmate? I too read the story and thought, "I bet their kid is applying." There's no reason to confront them, but I am curious about whether they permitted their child to apply. Actions speak louder than words.</p>
<p>Harvard is not for everyone.<br>
It can be demoralizing to be tops in one's school and find that at Harvard, one is only in the middle of the pack, that there are real stars in both academic and non-academic areas. For those who do not mind no being tops but actually relish being among real peers, it is a great experience.
It is true that profs on the whole tend not to be warm and fuzzy as I've heard many profs at LACs are (but then S1 went to a LAC and did not get the warm and fuzzy experience, either).
It is true, too, that many students are competitive. Not by undermining others or refusing to collaborate, but in challenging their grades. There are many stories about students who are unhappy with their Bs or even A-s and challenge their TFs or profs. In non-academic areas, the level required to be admitted whether in community service, performing arts, The Crimson, etc... means that there are many disappointed students. However, it is always possible to form a new group and even get funding.</p>
<p>I'm in the camp with those who think these parents may be discouraging competition from applying. We were on the receiving end of some of that ourselves....</p>
<p>My uncle went to Harvard for undergrad, and he hated almost everything about his experience, especially in his first two years at school. He felt that the atmosphere was cutthroat and that few professors or advisors cared about his academic, and even general, well-being. </p>
<p>That said, I do think that Harvard can be a very rewarding place for a certain type of student-- the overachiever, or the go-getter. For somebody who is incredibly self-motivated, never insecure and never shy, Harvard is probably great.</p>
<p>I've heard the whole "stepping on other's bodies" competition a lot from current students as well..non-CCers in case you are wondering, just acquaintances..</p>
<p>My interviewer told me he hated Harvard by the end of his four years...didn't really elaborate on why. He also told me that the Harvard name comes with both good and bad consequences. However, one of the bad consequences was not that it is hard to get a job (probably quite the opposite), but that your co-workers may assume that you are pretentious or think you are better than they are simply because you went to Harvard. I guess it is the price all honestly modest people pay whenever they drop the H-bomb on someone. I mean, I feel uncomfortable telling people that I applied there because not many people from my town do, so I can only imagine how difficult it must be for actual alumni who live in areas like mine who send kids to Ivies once in a blue moon.</p>
<p>don't confront them and pretend that your daughter is no longer interested in applying to Harvard. if she gets in, it will be a good laugh and a good opportunity to do a "dip snap" if they ask you where your daughter ends up.</p>
<p>Harvard Alumni: "So where is your daughter planning on going this fall?"
You: "Harvard..." <em>snap</em> <em>snap</em>
<silence...></silence...></p>
<p>"They told DD so many nagetive things about Harvard. Things like, students there are so competitive that they are on each's face all the time and that they will step over other to get somewhere"</p>
<p>That is actually quite true according to several people who have studied there.</p>
<p>"'Things like, students there are so competitive that they are on each's face all the time and that they will step over other to get somewhere'...That is actually quite true according to several people who have studied there."</p>
<p>When is competition a bad thing? And no, the competition here is nothing like what you describe. People help each other in studying, with study groups, collectively complied study guides, etc. etc. If I missed a lecture, I could always count on finding someone to fill me in, or better yet, email me a copy of the notes. </p>
<p>But there is competition here, though it mostly comes in the form of extracurricular positions. Editorships, student group board positions, concerto competitions, parts in the play etc. When there are only 3 parts in a show and 50 people audition, well...someone's not going to make it. It's the same anywhere else. Sometimes you'll make it, sometimes you won't. If you can't deal with rejection on such a level, I'm not sure how you'll function once you get out of school. </p>
<p>If you get rejected for sometime, no one is going to rub it in your face. </p>
<p>"they are on each's face all the time and that they will step over other to get somewhere"...
What does that mean? If you mean there are backstabbing people here...I'm sure they exist like anywhere else. I fortunately haven't encountered much of that here yet.</p>
<p>Curious about your interviewer. Since these are volunteer jobs, why did he volunteer to be an interviewer if he hated Harvard? Or is it merely that he was afraid to sound elitist if he disclosed he went there (as opposed to not enjoying his experience?). I know he did not elaborate, but how long ago was he at Harvard? Did he give details about his experience? </p>
<p>My S's interviewer said that the atmosphere could be very intense. She did not say it was competitive. And yes, it can be very intense. But S has not found anyone stepping on anyone else.</p>
<p>marite -
Well, what I got from him was that while he did enjoy the experience, he felt tired of the place by the end of his senior year. While looking at my resume and ECs, he did allude to "Philips Exeter kids who had even longer resumes than yours, got into Harvard, and didn't do [expletive] their entire time there." So I suppose he did have a bitter feeling or experience with wealthy "prep school kids" who got into Harvard and did not engage themselves while they were there (This is obviously a stereotype...one in which I don't really believe because I've met some kids from PE that are simply amazing). He said this though, in reference to my likelihood of actually remaining involved in the Harvard community if I am accepted, rather than dropping everything and being complacent just because I had "gotten in" and that was the end of that. He told me colleges look at applicants not as acceptees or rejectees but as investments...the college makes a sort of speculation as to what you will contribute to their campus in the next four years; if you seem like you will continue your work as enthusiastically as you have done in high school, then you are in. I think he was just a pretty cynical guy by nature, but still rather hilarious. He did not discourage me from applying at all...in fact, he did the opposite. I guess he was just trying to say Harvard is not for everyone, and was warning me about the consequences of being a Harvard graduate, both the good and the bad.</p>