<p>Re: the purported unavoidability of killer hours, brutal deadlines and sacrifice of personal life for a new attorney...</p>
<p>This may be true in many areas of the law (large private firms, of course). But--I'll add again that you <em>can</em> find areas to practice that don't require you to sacrifice most of your life to get ahead. The gov't is a wonderful opportunity. And yes, you can be the one <em>in</em> court as lead litigator and the one <em>making</em> the arguments to judges at an astonishingly early point in your career there.</p>
<p>Of course, you're not earning six figures right out of law school (as were some of my friends at private firms). But--if you're looking for 'life balance' (particularly as a woman with kids or one who hopes to have a family) the options are there, if you look for them.</p>
<p>Btw, when I was a law clerk during law school in-house at a big corp---I worked <em>way</em> longer than the attorneys, all of whom ran out the door at 6 p.m. every night!</p>
<p>There are many attorneys who love the work, including me. I work many more hours then I claim to want to, but I love every one and wouldn't do a thing differently.</p>
<p>Ok, so the tally here is 7 pro, 6 con, but probably not a representative sample. The bottom line I take out of this is to know what you're getting into before going through the time & expense of law school, but that's true of any career path and easier said than done.</p>
<p>I loved my work for many years. I just feel that corporate America has changed drastically (no one will debate THAT) and it has affected the practice of law in a negative way. I have worked (in-house) for some excellent companies- I didn't fully appreciate that at the time. My last two stints have been horrible- dishonest management, unhappy employees...... I am a person who makes the most of things- and I made wonderful friends at even the last two companies. Some of the lawyers I know at big firms are happy but many are not. I think entering the corporate or law firm arena today is a lot different than when many of us started out.</p>
<p>And the point that I was making, similar to MomofWildChild - is that it has gotten far more difficult financially to plan on entering any public interest/public service type career, due to rising costs of law school. I don't disagree with any of the individuals who have pointed out that there is an alternative path to the intense, grueling pace of big firm work... I just don't know how anyone can reasonably accomplish that given the current costs of a law school education. High debt really limits options.</p>
<p>Well, law school debt can also be contained by going to a more affordable school and working summers and during the school year in 2L & 3L (firms pay nicely for that). Plus, a bunch of my friends put in just a <em>few years</em> (one or two!) at a big firm after law school to put a dent in debt---then switched over to in-house, public service or something else less demanding.</p>
<p>I only had $30k of debt coming out of school---not too bad (hub is kindly still paying it off for me....).</p>
<p>S has decided he is very interested in law school. He is a history major at a LAC and had been thinking of the PHD professor route but this summer he has an internship working with a forensic sociologist on death penalty mitigation cases. He is leaning towards public defender. Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated. We have been told that Northeastern in Boston has an especially strong public interest focus. Do you know of any other schools that would be good choices? What should he know as he bdgins the application process? He'll be a junior in the fall so he has some time.</p>
<p>I believe contacts are very important. If he has some idea of where he would like to begin his career, going to law school in that city- or at least that state- can be very helpful. A real network develops between law school classmates. This can be very helpful wrt relationships with judges, too.</p>
<p>I would like to expand on some items that haven't been mentioned. I am a lawyer by training but didn't like the practice of law. It involved too much stress and too many hours. However, I want into a law related field of legal writing and lecturing, which was very lucrative. Many of my friends are CEOs of companies or doing other interesting things sich as lobbying, US Congressmen, state representative in legislature, authors etc.</p>
<p>Also, I should note that although I disliked law school, I felt that it gave invaluable training. It certainly taught me to look at things very differently. I have become far more cognizant of spotting many legal issues and avoiding problems before they arise. Law school also taught some strong logical thinking that doesn't seem to be as honed in undergraduate classes. </p>
<p>My point is simple: a law degree opens up many doors besides practicing as a lawyer. In fact, it may open up more doors than that of almost any other profession. This point should be kept clearly in mind.</p>
<p>Don't quite a few law schools now have partial loan-forgiveness programs for grads who want to do public interest work? Or are they just offering token amounts?</p>
<p>taxguy writes:
[Quote]
My point is simple: a law degree opens up many doors besides practicing as a lawyer. In fact, it may open up more doors than that of almost any other profession. This point should be kept clearly in mind.
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>That certainly seems like a glowing endorsement of getting a legal degree. Other than tuition costs, any counterpoints to this statement?</p>
<p>it is a lot easier to say you will go to law school and not get swept up in the career paths that most of your classmates are getting sucked into than to actually hold to that once you are there. </p>
<p>and yes whatever you do right out of law school isn't a life time choice - you can work for a big firm/corporation/gov't for a few years and then go on to other things. </p>
<p>just don't underestimate the emotional stress involved in deciding that the path that all those around you endorsing isn't the path for you. </p>
<p>by definition lawyers are "hired guns" wose job it is to advocate/support the position of those paying them (be it a private client, public interest group, or gov't) -- and your professional success is measured by how well you do that. once in that system, it can become difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to stop and say wait a minute, what do I think I should be doing.</p>
<p>The problem with the "you can work for a big firm/corporation/gov't for a few years and then go on to other things" rational is that those high paying jobs are not so easy to come by if your heart's not in it. It is a highly competitive process when the big firms come to interview on campus. The "gov't" jobs just aren't that lucrative -- it is a great place to get training starting out, but it may not make much of a dent on paying back loans. </p>
<p>I do agree with taxguy that a law degree opens a lot of doors. I think my current frustration comes down to the current cost of obtaining one, even via public colleges. I honestly think that the primary focus of public university law schools shoud be toware educating lawyers for public service/government jobs, rather than private or corporate firms ... simply because they are public schools, and of course we need lawyers to staff and represent all the public agencies. I don't know if the situation is as bad in all states, but at least in California the UC law schools now cost almost as much to attend as private schools. This simply was not the case when I went to law school. While the majority of my classmates were probably dreaming of those big firm jobs, those of us with other things in mind never worried about how we were going to make ends meet - we knew that starting salary in the public defender's office would be adequate. Many of us also chose to simply start out with very small firms or in solo practice - or perhaps forming small partnerships with law school classmates -- even with loan forgiveness programs for some branches of public service, I don't see how that small group practice opportunity would be preserved. The small practitioners are usually the ones who end up serving ordinary people or working in smaller towns and cities -- chances are, if you are not rich and you need to consult a lawyer for something, that is the type of lawyer you will seek out.</p>
<p>I was one of those California public law school grads who started out practicing (debt free) by hanging out a shingle with a classmate. I wasn't interested in "public interest" law - a stint with Legal Aid cured that - I just wanted to provide needed services to regular people - small business owners, consumers, regular joes - who needed help, and to do it at a cost they could afford. (Talk about naive idealism!) I was able to work for the underdog - not the official, government-sanctioned underdog, but the real underdog - normal, middle class people. And it has been rewarding. But I don't see how a newly minted JD with $75,000 of tuition debt could do that. And that saddens me. Because my career path has allowed me to try cases to juries, and take cases up on appeal up to and including the Supreme Court when I thought it was justified -- and also coach my kids' little league teams. It's a balance I find central to my enjoyment of life, but I don't think it's a path that's realistically available anymore.<br>
PS -- put me in the "satisfied" column, although after 30+ years the thrill admittedly isn't quite the same anymore.</p>
<p>Forget public service, My wife and I are/were Feds. Under no circumstances would we led our son go into government work. Non-profits would be ok.</p>
<p>Tsdad,
Just out of curiousity---why no feds? One of my gfs worked for D of J in DC and it was stressful, but still fairly family-friendly. Those of us in state govt had a really nice deal, time-wise...</p>
<p>The editors of California Lawyer magazine sent a survey last fall by email to 700 attorneys chosen as a representative sample of the California bar. They published the results this month. Of the 17% who responded, 20% said they were "extremely satisfied" with their jobs today; 37% said they were "very satisfied," 20% said they were "somewhat satisfied," 9% said they were "not very satisfied," and 5% said they were "not at all satisfied."</p>
<p>Those attorneys making over $150K per year were most likely to rate themselves as "very satisfied" or "extremely satisfied" (70% of them).</p>
<p>Wow......for a kid who's wanted to be a lawyer as long as she can remember, I'm feeling particularly disillusioned right now. Up until this point, I was so sure law was the right path for me, but maybe I will have to reevaluate that. I feel as if my whole idea of what my life would be like is a bubble that has been burst after reading some of the replies here. By no means am I taking everyone's word as gospel; it seems there are lawyers on both sides of the fence, some who are intensely disappointed, and some who don't regret their decision for a second. I will, however, think deeply about other career paths. Luckily, I'm only a junior in high school, and still have time to deliberate. </p>
<p>For someone who likes politics, debating, and writing and philosphy, what other career choices are there? I've also thought of pursuing journalism, but it seems that to make a decent living as a journalist, the competition is just as cut throat, and the path is just as stressful as that of a lawyer trying to make partner at their firm. </p>
<p>This thread has been an eye opener, bringing to light not only the hardships of this field, but alo the possible rewards. It definitely deserves some quality pondering time.</p>
<p>Helix, I certainly wouldn't make any life-changing decisions about the law as a career (pro or con) based on the microscopic sample that you see here. Some of us like it, some of us don't. A few of us love it and a few of us hate it. I would venture to say that you'll have the same basic response about almost ANY career path. </p>
<p>Based on your interests, I would say not to bail out on journalism too quickly. Yes, it also has its pluses and minuses, but if you're working on something that really engages your interest, the minuses are often no more than minor nuisances. </p>
<p>FWIW, a law school classmate of mine went to law school with the specific intent of pursuing a journalism career. He felt that the law training would be helpful and I suppose he was right -- he reports on legal affairs for the NY Times, and it's always fun to hear him pop up on NPR as the occasional legal "expert". So don't box yourself in.</p>