Career in print journalism

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hi all. I'm a current college student and don't mean to invade the parents' forum, but I was hoping to get some advice on pursuing a career in journalism. Although I've been planning on becoming a bioengineer for some time, journalism has also always had a certain allure. I worked on my high school paper and was both a reporter and news editor for my college paper. Now I'm starting to try to choose between bioengineering and journalism (yeah, I know, very different) and was hoping for some insight into life as a reporter. </p>

<p>So does anyone here have experience working in print journalism? What are the pros and cons of such a career? Would you choose journalism again? Do you find it rewarding? What personality traits are ideal for reporters? What don't you like about the profession? What kinds of people are typically drawn to journalism, and do you like most of your coworkers?</p>

<p>Also, how hard is it to get a reporting position at a top paper (NYTimes, Wash Post or Wall Street Journal, or a news magazine like the Atlantic Monthly or the New Yorker)? How much of success in journalism is based on luck, how much is based on talent, and how much is based on connections?</p>

<p>Any insight would be much appreciated!</p>

2

<p>I'm a print journalist, and I love it. The pros: you are always learning new things, the people you work with tend to be smart and witty, by definition there is always something new happening. The cons: the pay is very poor, the future of the industry is uncertain, the people you work with can be sarcastic and cynical, and you might have to put in long hours with little recognition and reward. </p>

<p>It is very hard to get a job at the places you mentioned. You typically have to start at small papers (where the pay is dismal -- starting salaries in the mid-twenties) and work your way up. As for magazines -- few magazines have staff writers. They use a lot of freelancers. </p>

<p>As for the luck, talent, connections -- a combination of the three.</p>

3

<p>I've often imagined that a career in print journalism would be a lot like being an actor. If it's in your soul, you do it for the love of the job not the recognition or pay. Less than 5% of all actors make $5,000 a year or more in acting jobs (according to the Screen Actors Guild). Furthermore I imagine most print journalists work at "hometown" type papers/publications. Maybe even supplement their incomes doing freelance writing for technical manuals and who knows what else.</p>

<p>If writing is your passion then you should pursue it, not for fame, wealth or recognition, but for the love of the job.</p>

4

<p>Yes, I'm sorry.... it is a very tough way to make a living right now. One option to keep in mind -- if you pursue other career options, you can always write freelance articles for professional publications or your local paper. But to support yourself (and a family?) on a journalist's salary over the next 10 or so years....... not likely.</p>

5

<p>Not a journalist but do know that The New Yorker hires established writers while other top organizations hire right out of the Ivies and Oxbridge.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Frank Rich
Rich graduated from Harvard in 1971, where he was editorial chairman of the Harvard Crimson, studied American History and Literature, and lived in Lowell House. Before joining the Times in 1980, he was a film critic for Time magazine. He is married to Alex Witchel, who also writes for the Times, and has two sons from his previous marriage to Gail Winston. He lives in Manhattan.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
Steve Rattner
Rattner graduated from Brown w Honors in 1974. He began his Times career as James Reston’s assistant. This was, then, the most honored job for a young man in journalism—something like beginning a legal career as a Supreme Court clerk. From Reston’s office, he went to the Metro desk and then, in the opec-obsessed seventies, to writing about energy and shuttling back and forth to the Middle East, and then, at 24, to the Washington bureau. As it happened, his Washington rotation intersected with that of the publisher’s son, Arthur Sulzberger Jr.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
Thomas Friedman
Friedman received a B.A. in Mediterranean Studies from Brandeis University in 1975. He then attended St Antony's College at the University of Oxford on a Marshall scholarship, receiving an M.A. in Middle Eastern Studies. He names Professor Albert Hourani among his important academic influences.
Upon graduating, Friedman joined the London bureau of United Press International. He was dispatched a year later to Beirut, where he stayed until 1981. He was then hired by The New York Times, and was soon redispatched to Beirut at the start of the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Friedman's coverage of the war, particularly the Sabra and Shatila massacre, won him the Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting.

[/quote]
</p>

6

<p>What a depressing thread...</p>

7

<p>If you want to be a print journalist, write regularly for your college newspaper, doing complex hard to report news stories, particularly those on short deadlines. Don't bother with things like opinion articles and reviews. </p>

<p>Use your published articles to get newspaper internships because that's the way to get into the business -- through internships, which you qualify for through work on your student newspaper.</p>

<p>Also join a professional journalism organization like the Society of Professional Journalists, which has conventions and contests that students can enter their work in.</p>

8

<p>If you want to be a journalist, consider other majors.
As a 20+-year print and TV journalist, and now a professor of comparative literature and cultural studies, I always remind students that journalism requires that you bring something to the table aside from a formulaic journalism education. The people I hired during my years in journalism often had majored in history, comparative literature, philosophy, political science. I studied comparative literature. I do not recall ever hiring someone with a J school degree.
This is not to say that J school graduates are not hired. Of course they are. But the bar is set higher the higher you aim.
I have written for some of the major media outlets you mention, and a degree in journalism is not something that will get you there. Your writing will. Your mind will. Your ability to link, dissect, deconstruct complex issues will.
And I respectfully disagree with Nortstarmom. In fact, opinion pieces and reviews are read with interest by potential employers because they give you a more accurate picture of how a candidate THINKS and ANALYZES and of his or her STYLE than straight news stories ever will. A mix of both is preferable. But, as Northstarmom suggests, do write for the college paper and GET AN INTERNSHIP while in college if at all possible.</p>

9

<p>I am a science journalist and have worked for national magazines (ie OMNI, Discover, Psychology Today) as a writer and editor for 25 years. My advice to you if you want to rise in national media and you have a penchant for and interest in science is to complete your undergraduate degree in the hard sciences --physics, astronomy, chemistry, or engineering with a second major or minor in writing of some sort. The science degree should be hard, and the harder the better. Physics trumps biology for a place like the New York Times or Time Mag. THEN get a master's degree at one of the science journalism programs: NYU, Boston University or Columbia. THEN come on down (or up) to NYC and get an internship. I don't know if you're going to be a good writer. I don't know if you can stand the failures and rejection you will have to endure before you succeed. But if so ...hey, go for it. All the people I know are the ones who went for it and of course many of us do make a living at the magazines and major newspapers across this country. Why not you?</p>

10

<p>I'm not a journalist, but I know a number of them, including people who write/wrote for the kinds of publications you are talking about. I don't have much new to add, except to confirm that my vicarious experience corresonds to what others are telling you:</p>

<p>-- The people I know who are successful tended to have talent AND connections (most of which they acquired on their own) AND luck. Of those, talent is by far the most important -- all the connections in the world can't make up for lack of talent -- but there are plenty of talented writers who never rise to the top of their profession.</p>

<p>-- Even if you are Editor of the Harvard Crimson, the era of being hired right out of college at a national publication is pretty much over. Several people I know were stars at the Yale Daily News or the Harvard Crimson. All but one of them served substantial apprenticeships on very unprestigious publications, or spent years freelancing (and the one exception is my age, i.e., a dinosaur). Places like the NY Times, Wall St. Journal, and the New Yorker generally hire people who are already budding superstars, at least within the profession. They're not so different from the NY Yankees.</p>

<p>-- The advice about having some substantive expertise and then studying journalism seems good based on the career paths I know. I do, however, know a couple of j-school grads who have had good careers at newspapers. The journalism/something else masters programs at Columbia worked very well for some people I know, both in terms of learning how to apply their expertise in journalism and in making contacts.</p>

<p>-- Many of the people I know (but not all) have had to move around a lot to establish their careers. Fun and interesting sometimes, but often tough on their families.</p>

<p>-- Traditional print journalism at newspapers other than the NY Times (and its equivalents) is often a very depressing field right now. Lots of layoffs, people quitting, doom and gloom. That doesn't mean that there aren't spots for rising young people, but it's very competitive, and you may be working with dispirited, angry people.</p>

<p>-- That said, you would be surprised at how many 20-somethings in Williamsburg (Brooklyn) are cobbling together a living out of freelance assignments or slightly weird jobs, building a portfolio, learning their trade, and having a blast doing it.</p>

11

<p>That list of people posted by Cheers: that all happened a long time ago. Yes it is possible to get a job right out of college at a major metro -- usually as a copy boy/girl, or a short term internship. Or if you have great connections. A friend of mine works at one of the Detroit metros and got the job out of school (she went to Michigan State); however, she's not a reporter, but works the night shift doing the Web pages.</p>

<p>Some people say papers with the greatest chance of survival are the small-town, community papers that cover local news. CNN will never put the results of the school board vote on TV or on its Web site, but people will buy their local paper for that news. </p>

<p>As for getting a journalism degree -- people in the industry have very mixed feelings about that. It's hard to give advice. Good clips and experience are what editors look for.</p>

<p>I will second what JHS said about moving around. Most people start at a small paper, move to a medium-sized one, and then to a major metro. Sometimes they are lucky and can do all that in one metropolitan area. But a lot of people need to work in the boonies. And yes, it can be tough on family.</p>

<p>And lastlaugh -- sorry you think this is depressing; I think it's realistic. Every profession has its pros and cons. I love my job; I love working in a newsroom. It is a vital, exciting, thought-provoking, challenging place to work. I left the profession for a while, and was very glad to have the opportunity to come back.</p>

12

<p>If you're interested in the magazine business you don't need to move around --you just need to come to NYC and stay put. Of course in newspapers, a different story.</p>

<p>Either way it is a hard road and I have found most people trying to make it as career journalists fall by the wayside sooner than later. NOT because they are less talented than the ones who make it, but overwhelmingly because they lack the stomach for it. There's a lot of failure and rejection along the path even for the most successful and talented. It can be a brutal experience, I have to say. Most of my friends who had top editor spots on national pubs were eventually fired, it's very fickle. Of course they still do well, they are in it for the long-haul.</p>

<p>I count myself a success because I have enough regular gigs to make a very steady living consulting and freelancing on contract and don't need to go into the office. That has required mondo connections gathered over a lifetime of working in the trenches.</p>

<p>I am NOT making the big bucks --but I like my life and love my work.</p>

<p>As to a J-degree or personal connections (other than those you make yourself) they end up being meaningless. In journalism, we care about your education OUTSIDE journalism and we care about your ability to do the work.</p>

<p>If you finished Harvard but you can't make the deadline or do the assignment, no one wants you. A dropout who can do the work will be chosen over you every time --with the exception of that first internship or job.</p>

<p>Good luck --I think it's a great life and I would choose it again, but it's not a cakewalk.</p>

13

<p>If you are interested in magazine journalism, learn design and copy editing. Both fields are desperate for people with strong skills. Forget about being employed fulltime as a magazine writer because most magazines use freelance writers.</p>

<p>Being excellent at copy editing and design also will get you good newspaper jobs, including at a young age. I know someone who was offered 9 copy editing jobs after graduating from college. This includes job offers from The Washington Post (the job that she chose) and Miami Herald.</p>

<p>Good copy editors can get hired virtually wherever they want to live. Plusses of the job are that you leave the job at work, which leaves lots of time for things like freelance writing, if you also like to write. </p>

<p>Interested? Use a search engine to find out about Dow Jones copy editing internships, something that many top copy editors, executive editors and other editors did when they were college students.</p>

<p>I know these things because I worked in print journalism, including as a recruiter, and also taught journalism a the college level. I mentored many students, including some who followed my advice and did get jobs at major metros or excellent starter dailies right out of college.</p>

14

<p>Northstarmom --I think we will have to agree to disagree regarding the MAGAZINE business. I have worked on national magazines in New York City since 1980 through to the present day, and obviously know a wide number of people in the business. Editorial and design departments at the major mags are separated by a divide, the skill sets do not cross --and I have NEVER known a single person to move from layout to editorial. The design people are artists. And it is the RARE copy editor who makes it out of the copy department. If you want to be a magazine editor you must start in the editorial department where they do the acquisitions. It is the only way to move up and become a feature acquisitions editor I have ever seen with a single exception. I have one friend who started as a copy editor and is now an editor-in-chief. He is one of the few who make it out of the copy department that I have known in many years. </p>

<p>I give my two cents as someone who has worked INSIDE these magazines at the major companies for many years. If you want to be an editor, get a job working with the acquisition editors. There are staff writing jobs at many magazines by the way although most rely on freelancers --by all means, not all.</p>

15

<p>Cloverdale,
If I implied that people can move from layout to editorial in magazines, then I made a mistake. I didn't mean to suggest that. If a person wants to work in magazines, being a designer is a way to have a far better chance of obtaining a fulltime job than trying to get in as a writer. That's what I was trying to say. </p>

<p>Most magazines are interested in hiring excellent designers. Design is also considered to be a field in which young people excel.</p>

<p>Magazines also need copy editors.</p>

<p>Most don't hire staff writers. To avoid paying benefits, etc., most magazines now get their articles from freelance writers.</p>

16

<p>FWIW, my son, an IR major, walked into a respected daily newspaper and asked about an internship. He got it--an assignment to research and write one science article. Subsequently, he was hired to research and write five more science articles--from abroad.</p>

<p>The editor never asked him for a sample of his writing. To clover's point, she was more interested in his internship on Capital Hill.</p>

<p>Sorry to disagree sly, but if you put any recent Crimson writer into <a href="http://www.findarticles.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.findarticles.com&lt;/a> , you will find that the majority have enviable jobs, free lance or otherwise, in print journalism. I checked four random Crimson writers from 1995 onwards and found 1 at The Boston Globe, 1 writing for The Independent, 1 writing for Forbes and 1 writing for Psychology today. I also know some current young writers on an HYP paper. They have internships to die for.</p>

17

<p>^I think it's pretty reasonable to say that Harvard graduates don't get a job at a respectable paper because of the name on their degree...they do so because they're probably more opinionated, driven, and well-spoken and written than their competitors in the field (they needed to be to get in!).</p>

<p>Despite the depressing reality (and yeah, reality /can/ be depressing...why not?) of the prospects of a career in journalism, I'm probably still going to go to j-school. Journalist students double major, anyway, so the extra access to internships can't hurt.</p>

<p>But then again, it's not as if the prospects for political science/music industry/environmental policy/economics majors are much better. Maybe I will just end up going to law school...hah.</p>

18

<p>Thanks for the advice all! This has been 10x more helpful than any info session, article or career counselor.</p>

<p>A few more specific questions:</p>

<p>1) How important are social skills for success in the industry? I ask because I'm not the most outgoing person. I lean closer to introvert than to extrovert; I don't stand out in a crowd and I'm not the life of the party. That said, I've held my share of "leadership" positions in school, I work well with others and I like talking to new people. But I know I lack the prepossessing charm and networking savvy of some of my coworkers. </p>

<p>2) I think I might be more suited to magazine writing. However, stories in my college paper run short, on average 12 inches; they almost never exceed 20. Should I try freelancing for local pubs to get some longer clips? (I've also never freelanced before--so any advice for getting started?)</p>

<p>3) Do J-schools require you to major/minor in a writing-related field? My current major is Molecular and Cell Biology and I plan on plugging the empty spaces in my schedule with engineering classes (in case I decide to do bioengineering). But I could maybe drop some of those and minor in English instead. </p>

<p>4) Finally, to be blunt, people constantly give the media ****. And to be honest, I can see why. The news media has its faults and it was sometimes frustrating to produce articles under the limitations of one-day deadlines; some stories ended up shaped by whomever called me back, and some I felt were shallow, not because I didn't want to dig deeper but just because I ran out of time (or space). I guess my question is: Do those of you with long careers in journalism feel good about the media? (Well, probably, if you've stuck to it.) Also, people that hate on the media have this notion that authoritarian editors sandbag stories that could hurt the financial/political interests of the publisher. Is there any truth to this idea? And how do you all feel about the state of journalism in general?</p>

19

<p>" few more specific questions:</p>

<p>1) How important are social skills for success in the industry?...."</p>

<p>Virtually all people whom I know in the field are introverts. They are thoughtful people, good listeners, good thinkers who are able to assertively ask questions as part of their job because they care about having good stories and making a difference. They are not life of the party gregarious people otherwise.</p>

<p>2") I think I might be more suited to magazine writing."</p>

<p>As I said before, most magazines do not have fulltime staff writers. Those that do like Newsweek and Time have people who are world class excellent writers and reporters who started out at newspapers.</p>

<p>To get newspaper internships, you probably need longer clips. Clips that require a lot of reporting -- projects, for instance -- could be published over several issues. My guess as a former college newspaper advisor is if you have done excellent reporting and have an important story, your college newspaper will publish your work in a longer article than the newspaper would normally publish.</p>

<p>I am not sure why you think you're more suited to magazine writing. Sometimes I've heard students say this because they think they can't keep up with the quicker deadlines of newspapers. However, magazines require better writing skills and often require better reporting skills. To earn a living at magazine writing, one also has to produce a lot of work. If you have major writers block problems, you'll starve as a magazine freelancer.</p>

<p>For any kind of freelance writing info get the book "Writer's market." It's available at most bookstores and libraries (usually in the reference system).</p>

<p>3) Do J-schools require you to major/minor in a writing-related field? My current major is Molecular and Cell Biology.</p>

<p>You might consider specializing in science writing. Do an Internet search to find out if there's still a science writing paid internship. I'm not sure it still exists, but it did exist about 7 years ago.</p>

<p>Journalism schools require you to take some courses outside of your field because journalists need to know about more than the nuts and bolts of journalism.</p>

<p>4) Finally, to be blunt, people constantly give the media ****. And to be honest, I can see why. The news media has its faults and it was sometimes frustrating to produce articles under the limitations of one-day deadlines; some stories ended up shaped by whomever called me back, and some I felt were shallow, not because I didn't want to dig deeper but just because I ran out of time (or space). I guess my question is: Do those of you with long careers in journalism feel good about the media?"</p>

<p>I think that since September 11th when too many media outlets bought hook, line and sinker the government's pronouncements about terrorism, and so many media outlets decided that being analytical and critical of government was somehow unpatriotic, media has been in trouble. I also think that the virtual end of competition between newspapers -- because of the closure of most afternoon newspapers and how the large companies, particularly Gannett have bought so many newspapers-- also has hurt media. I am concerned about the sensational "reporting" of Fox news, and how CNN has been sinking to that level, too.</p>

<p>That being said, there still are some really good journalists, including some young ones who are doing serious, balanced reporting of tough issues.</p>

<p>If one has courage and wants to make a difference in society, I still believe that journalism is the way to do that, however one may need to do it through blogging and through independent publications, not just by working for major media.</p>

20

<p>"think it's pretty reasonable to say that Harvard graduates don't get a job at a respectable paper because of the name on their degree...they do so because they're probably more opinionated, driven, and well-spoken and written than their competitors in the field (they needed to be to get in!)."</p>

<p>Harvard grads are welcome in the journalism field because those who wish to work in journalism usually have worked for the Crimson, a completely student-run daily that is more competitive than many professional newspapers.</p>

<p>Any student who works for the Crimson and becomes a star reporter or top editor is working as hard as most professional journalists, and has student supervisors who are more demanding than most professional journalists. </p>

<p>Most of the Crimson's staff do not want to be professional journalists, but are on the paper for fun. Their idea of "fun" is what most people would call a demanding fulltime job.</p>