Carleton vs UW Madison

Here are my interests and concerns in no particular order:

  1. Would like a new adventure. UW is overly familiar as I live in Madison, but Carleton is v. small.
  2. Would like to be surrounded by a high concentration of very smart students. I think Carleton wins that one?
  3. Ultimately would like to go into biological research (via getting a PhD, MD, or both).
  4. Not sure which area of biology/life sciences want to focus on and would like a broad exposure. Which school will give that? Are there a few intro/survey courses that would expose me to many areas (immunology, virology, genetics, cell bio, neuroscience) in a way that I can learn what I want to go into? How (and where) would be the best way to achieve that?
  5. I would like to continue to learn ballet and modern (pre-professional level) - not as a major, but at least to keep learning.

What do you think might be best?

Have you been accepted to both? Is this to decide by May 1?

Carleton seems to be the new adventure. It might be small, but it’s full of fun quirky people who are smart and you will get to know them in a nice way, from all that I understand about Carleton. It’s a top school that’s highly respected. I think of it as the Williams of the Midwest. What it lacks in breadth of resources of a major university, it more than balances with it’s depth of care for the students. As for smallness, there’s always study abroad and exchanges with other campuses are often offered. Check to see if Carleton has those.

Yes. UW has smart students, but it is also a party school. It’s also a major research university. Carleton is all about the undergrads research and learning opportunities. UW is about grad students’ research opportunities, that’s the emphasis. You’d have to compete with them to get the plum research opportunities. Also at UW you will be taught by TAs, many of whom may be speaking English as a second language and even at top Us this can mean difficulty in understanding what they are saying. I know this from experience. Also, though they may be talented and may know a lot, teaching is a skill separate from what you know. Just because you have a Ph.D. doesn’t mean you are a good teacher. Small LACs focus on teaching and mentoring the undergraduate students.

You can do this at both institutions. UW will offer bigger everything, but you need to ask whether you personally will have access to it, who will be teaching you, are you their primary focus or are you one of a crowd. Also UW has gone through huge budget cuts because of Governor Walker (pulling several hundred million out of the UW system and paying for a sports stadium in Milwaukee for a professional team). He also cut tenure for profs in the UW system except for in name only, by creating a political board, not academic, that he oversees and that can get rid of depts and profs at its / his pleasure. From a students’ POV this means that 1) you will have larger classes at UW–as budget cuts; 2) fewer classes in your major offered and you may be closed out of those classes, and may not graduate on time – UW has a 56% graduation rate. Carleton’s is about 80+%; count on a 5th year of undergrad at UW; 3) Those big classes will break down into TA sessions, where the “real” teaching takes place, the place where someone tells you how to do certain problems; 4) because tenure was cut the most talented professors that COULD leave UW did leave UW for more friendly environments. The ones who stayed may be talented but the system is distressed. Also if you want to go into a good Ph.D. program, it would help if you have solid research under your belt, preferably with a publication. Small LACs often offer that opportunity of you seek it out. You would have immediate chance to work directly with a prof on his or her research, and maybe get a publication. This op is usually possible for grad students only, at a large research U. For MD, getting into med school requires, as I understand it from this forum, high grades plus high MCATs and shadowing or other clinical work. You can do that at either institution, but my gut feeling is that the tutoring in the tough subjects is better at a small LAC. UW probably would be all bout weeder courses to get rid of those that can’t do the work. Tutoring is probably offered but in the end the intro classes would most likely be large and you would be one of a crowd until after you prove yourself. This is the typical set up of large institutions and I haven’t looked to see whether this is true at UW, but I’m letting you know so that you can find out for yourself.

UW prob would give “broad exposure.” but check the course catalogs of both schools.

It looks like Carleton has dance opportunities for freshman. https://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/thea/Information_for_First-Year_Students/ As does UW – https://www.dance.wisc.edu/

If you were my child and could afford both schools, I would say: Carleton hands down. It has dance, research opportunities, your intro premed classes will be smaller and you’d have access to better tutoring; you will graduate on time without that extra 5th year; you will be mentored personally as you go through. It might be smallish from your POV but it does offer a new perspective from the outset and there’s always study abroad or visits to other campuses.

Best wishes.

The above post was very informative but I’m not sure that accepted UW Madison students need to “count on a fifth year” due to budget cuts. There has always been students who move a bit more slowly through the UW but it isn’t clear that this is correlated with budget issues.

This is not a hard decision since the schools are so totally different unless cost is an issue.

The OP’s daughter opted to attend Carleton. Welcome!