The WIRED article is hilarious (the best humor is always based on true insight), but it’s a good reminder. CC isn’t a debating society, it’s a place for friendly interaction and learning. If you have to make the same point more than once in the same thread (or in many threads), you may be suffering from PDS!
I read some interesting research about “internet animosity” and how being anonymous on the internet promotes agression and weird behavior. I beleive it, but I see it in everyday life as well. Intersting- that satirical article could hold a lot of truth!
Yes, this is pretty prevalent. To say anything negative about a university is obviously a challenge to many. For example, if a student says that Chicago has better placement in X grad school than Northwestern, students will often take that to mean “Chicago > NU.” And then they’ll bust out rankings and stats and whatnot, and it all spirals downward from there.
So true!
Note, though, that this isn’t the same as having to correct misinformation on multiple occasions. (For example, I can’t count how many times I’ve told students that a 2200+ is NOT required for admission to any school.)
In other news, I think I may have “bookmark loop disorder,” but I call it “prodigious procrastination ability.” =p
Hilarious article. Thank you for calling people’s attention to this behavior as it can make posting pretty uncomfortable at times.
I’ve actually seen a fair bit of PDS on CC. My impression is that a fair proportion of the snarky comments and compulsive arguing comes from high school students who really think there is some value to “winning” a discussion on the web. It is possible that they have never really been taught how to structure logical arguments (or don’t think it is important to do so on the web). However, this impression could be wrong. I recall one thread in which someone with a mom in her (his) screen name seemed to be engaged in PDS with respect to a college student to the point that I felt like I needed to post and tell the college student not to take to heart the arguments from the mom, which seemed off-target and repetitive. One M.O. of the PDSers seems to be to take a sustained post that is making a coherent argument, pick out one sentence, make a sneering remark or occasionally a sensible challenge to that one sentence, and then repeat their preconceived opinion. Another seems to be the hauling out of massive amounts of semi-irrelevant data that are aligned with the PDSer’s pre-conceived opinion.
I wonder if PDS is actually a reflection of underlying insecurity and a need for self-validation (i.e., “If you don’t agree with me, then something must be wrong with me and so I need to argue with you until you agree with me or give up so I can declare myself the winner”).
Methinks PDS on CC is PFC. Too many ST(Heck)U messages against TOS have to be KOd by MODs; too many people’s MOs involve writing S(Stuff)DD posts. O’course, limiting the number of SP’s or alternate IP’s would be AOK as would giving a TO to a MO, sometime a VIP.
Wow. How timely this is for me. Shawbridge, you have done a nice job with examples of PDS.
I was attacked by a very competitive poster last week. The individual went on a rampage sending three posts in a row with documentation that must have taken considerable effort to accumulate, in response to, what in my opinion, seemed a fairly innocuous observation on my part. I chose not to enter into the fray with this person after my single response to the first of this poster’s attacks on my observations brought out even more venom.
My experience is that such aggressive individuals have a strong need to be “right” and are better left not responded to. It saddens me that people behave so abusively. I almost decided to check out of posting on CC and return to lurking in order to avoid another potential assault. I received several PM’s from members however, that expressed amazement over the attack and were kind.
So much of what we say here (and perhaps I don’t get what CC is about) is, I thought, a sharing of personal observations and support. I generate enough formal research and documentation from my work. I looked to CC for ideas and experiences outside of what is found in the “hard” data of college websites, etc. Sadly, the adults often seem more mean-spirited than the teens when they exhibit PDS. Anyway, thanks for the articles. They have humorously taken the sting out of what I went through last week.
hornet,
you can and should report those posts to the moderators by clicking on the blue report problem post link found at the botton right corner of each post. It’s not too late to do so!
Part of the difficulty comes from anonymity or pseudonymity, both on the sending and receiving end. People will say or write things in an anonymous setting that they would never consider if it would come out that they were the source. Or they’ll mean to put some emphasis or inflection that just gets lost when you’re limited to text - even “emoticons” are highly imprecise way of conveying emotion - so the receiver has very little context to work with. Couple that with how distinctly impersonal message boards can be and you have the recipe for disaster.
Frankly, I am often surprised when enterprises like this work as well as they do; I am wholly unsurprised when eruptions take place (keeping in mind that I have been and will no doubt continue to be a part of them). For some (me included), there’s just too much “joy” in coming up with the perfect turn of a phrase, double entendre, or Dennis Milleresque cultural reference. And message boards have the advantage of time to generate and perfect a response in a way that conversations do not. The, “Oh I Wish I Had Said X” phenomenon doesn’t come into play as much - people have hours or days to say X.
I read Star Trek books to enjoy the time on airplane flights, and one I remember that relates here is “Tooth and Claw.” In it, there’s a culture whose entire concept of self is wrapped up on a complicated social web called “daleura.” A being’s value is dependent upon earning and saving “face” in just about every circumstance. And on the boards I visit, there’s sometimes a strong sense of daleura in order to protect a screenname - to the point where folks have dropped one name and picked up another as a kind of reboot or folks who use two or more names as a form of protection (should they want to say something controversial with another “voice”) or a means for auto-mutual admiration (should they want to have some shills to make sure there are at least a few people riding their bandwagon).
All in all, I’m hoping to get with my colleagues up the hill this summer to do some research on the different social constructions that come about from this kind of community, because I know at least for me it has been a real education.
Some parents consider any opinion about college preparation or other child-rearing issues which differs from their own to be an attack on how they’ve done it. Then we’re subjected to a long-winded defense of their position complete with glowing resume details of their amazing children to prove their way was best.
I’m not coming on CC for group therapy. It’s just nice to talk to anonymous people about some issues, because sharing them with personal friends can be tricky if they have children of the same age, at the same high school, and who may be applying to the same colleges. But I really hate it when I talk about a problem or deficit in my child that I’m concerned about and then all these perfect parents with perfect children comment about how they were able to do it all well and avoid all such pitfalls. Is this a parenting contest? If so, I admit I am not the winner. The title is yours!
I may be in the minority, but I love a good debate of the online variety. Perhaps it’s akin to watching boxing, but in the mental agility arena. I love personality too, and you really see that come out as well. Sometimes you cheer, sometimes you boo, there are the people on the sidelines - some who defend, some who support. It really is a free-for-all. I find it highly entertaining.
I see a lot of that, but not as much here as other places.
One really useful standard (IMO) is to ask posters to distinguish opinion from fact. It drives me cuckoo to have people make declarative statements of fact when, in truth, they’re just saying what they feel, or what they wish were true.
Opinion can be really useful, especially when people are pretty invested in what people “think about” a college. But to try to disguise your opinion as something you found in the Encyclopedia Brittanica is problematic. One board I frequent expects people to provide some backup or a citation if they’re claiming a fact. Of course, it does invite arguments about the quality of sources, but the discussions can get meaty and interesting.
I’d also like to see people be more willing to say “oh, I see now that you’re right–I was wrong about that.” That’s a pretty rare thing.
This is what really drove me to take a break from CC for nearly a year. It’s one thing to engage in a healthy debate. It’s another thing for someone to continually derail threads for one’s own personal satisfaction. This is a place for people to come to get advice on college matters… not a place for people to unsolicitedly spout their opinions and then pugilistically attack people who don’t agree. It’s an open forum in that we don’t quash people’s opinions, but some folks are abusing the privilege, big-time. This is, first and foremost, a place for people to come and ask questions and get honest answers.
Sometimes I feel like I’m playing point-counterpoint. Do I have to really negate <em>all</em> your thirty five contentions for you to quit challenging my differing-but-possibly-valid opinion…? I’m just trying to share my experiences here, and let people learn from my own mistakes… <em>sigh</em>… =\
Aphasia means not being able to communicate. (There is a kind where you talk but don’t make sense, another kind where you can’t talk but can understand, and there is a kind that is a mixture of both).
Agnosia is when you are unaware of something you are doing or think you know. For example, someone who has a visual agnosia may be be looking at you and not see you but see the chair to your left. One form of agnosia, anosagnosia is when you have a problem but do not recognize it.
So maybe that is the closest kind to what this thread is about: someone pathologically turns conversation into argument but is unaware of the fact.
wow… this exact topic of discussion is why i left CC the first time. I felt as if I was being attacked by other memebers for expressing my opinion. Very interesting.
