<p>"It may not be like this everywhere in the US, but in MN (and maybe IL) Jewish people tend to be wealthier, on average, than people of other religions."</p>
<p>True dat to IL.......big time.</p>
<p>I'm not gonna lie, I'm jewish and most of my family is either fairly wealthy or as Kurt Vonnegut would say "fabuously well-to-do". Not all of them went to top colleges. Most went to either Brandeis or their state college. However, they do work extremely hard for their professions.</p>
<p>mj93, you're full of bull. trying to explain anything about Penn with anecdotes from your small community in MN is just ridiculous. </p>
<p>Penn's got a lot of jews, and a lot of asians. Until very recently (mid 90's maybe) it was just a lot of jews. Trying to explain <em>why</em> it's like this would take more research and would need more space than anything on this forum can offer. Don't make yourself look like a moron by making comments that don't look beyond the end of your nose.</p>
<p>Mattwonder--</p>
<p>I tried to make it clear that I have a fairly small statistical sample to work from, but I do know this: IL's and MN's Jews are disproportionately wealthy. Wall Street is also full of Jews. So it's not <em>just</em> my "small community in MN". Though I do agree that it's impossible to explain the exact reason why top colleges are packed with Jews, we can hypothesize.</p>
<p>Well Matt, the only reason I know of that might explain it is that most Jews (that I know of that are going to college) tried to stay close to home and not like 2,000 miles away. The biggest populatiions of Jews are in the cities (I know that seems obvious). Cities like Baltimore, Boston, New York, Chicago and Philly are full of jews.</p>
<p>Here's some more data on jewish populatiions in colleges.</p>
<p>"71% of the John Bates Clark Medal winners"</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>That just further exemplifies the stereotype that Jews are interested in Business and Economics....hence Wharton....hence JewPenn :)</p>
<p>^haha, perfect example</p>
<p>Back in the day in Europe, the Jews were low class, and money was considered dirty work, so the Jews took all the jobs as bankers .. look where it's got us today :P</p>
<p>Also, look through "Major Jewish-American communities" in the Wikipedia article. You'll notice the names of some of the highest per-capita income cities in the country. Mercer Island, WA, Bel Air, CA, Beverly Hills, CA, Minnetonka Beach, MN, Long Grove, IL .. etc etc</p>
<p>lol yeah </p>
<p>I'll probably be a banker when I grow up. I'm looking into the high school internship at Washington Mutual.</p>
<p>Oh and there is a specific reason that apparently no one knows why so many Jews are now either:
a) doctors/ people working in medicine
b) lawyers
c) accountants/bankers/ business people</p>
<p>This is true.</p>
<p>The reason is that after the holocaust and WWII, some of the surviving Jews actually commited suicide from what they saw. They were afraid to back to the real world where everything is normal. Most Jews were fed up with their bosses and didn't want to be controlled. So what they did is they chose those particular jobs (see above) because in those jobs, you can be your own boss and still make a lot of money. ex. (Law Firms, Doctor clinics, Doctor offices, Accountant offices).</p>
<p>But stereotypes notwithstanding, Jews have not just been drawn to and succeeded in business and economics:</p>
<p>From Wikipedia
[quote]
Of American Nobel Prize winners, 37% have been Jewish Americans (19 times the percentage of Jews in the population).
[/quote]
Most of the Nobel Prizes won by Jews were NOT in economics:</p>
<p>Biomedical sciences (49 winners): <a href="http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=bi&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y%5B/url%5D">http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=bi&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y</a></p>
<p>Chemistry (27 winners): <a href="http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=ch&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y%5B/url%5D">http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=ch&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y</a></p>
<p>Physics (44 winners): <a href="http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=ph&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y%5B/url%5D">http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=ph&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y</a></p>
<p>Literature (12 winners): <a href="http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=lit&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y%5B/url%5D">http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=lit&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y</a></p>
<p>Economics (20 winners): <a href="http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=ec&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y%5B/url%5D">http://www.science.co.il/Nobel.asp?s=ec&sort=y&ord=z&cit=y</a></p>
<p>haha is this a chances thread or a debate over how rich Jews are?</p>
<p>So how would a WASP-Irish kid from California - here far fewer of those who are Jewish are also visible and identified with their culture than on the East Coast - feel at Penn? Out of place? Aware of a visible and culturally dominant group? </p>
<p>Have things changed since I showed up on the East Coast, a Northern Californian, 30 something years ago, from a community where who was Jewish and who wasn't was rarely a topic of conversation, to dive into a world where I was for the first time defined as a WASP? In California, for the most part, since the visible minorities are Latino and Asian, who is Jewish and who not, who is Polish or Italian or whatever pretty much gets lumped into general European. Unless of course, you're Israeli or South African and then your country of origin is the primary identifier.</p>
<p>Sounds like maybe things haven't changed on the East Coast, at least in this arena.</p>
<ul>
<li>Won best handwriting in school 2 years in a row </li>
</ul>
<p>that is one to be proud of. take it off or they may think you are padding</p>
<p>Gah this topic gets stupider by the moment. </p>
<p>Alumother, you'll be fine at Penn. It's a (relatively) big place, and most everyone gets along just fine. Hitler might not like it, but I think anyone else will. </p>
<p>I think you will find a very different set of identities on the East Coast though - Philadelphia is all about who's Italian-American.</p>
<p>"So how would a WASP-Irish kid from California - here far fewer of those who are Jewish are also visible and identified with their culture than on the East Coast - feel at Penn? Out of place? Aware of a visible and culturally dominant group?"</p>
<p>I think it may mess with your head a little if you are used to being the majority culture - that's a good thing in my book (to have your basic assumptions questioned rather than take them for granted) but it causes resentment in some people. If you assume that on Dec. 25th "everyone" celebrates Christmas (on some religious level even if a vague one and not just giving gifts) you'll be in for a shock once you realize that between the Jews and the (mostly non-Christian) Asians at Penn, more than 1/2 do not believe in Christianity (not just non-church goers but people who affirmatively do NOT accept Christianity on any level) and that you as a WASP are a minority in your "own" country. The very name "JewPenn" is a sign of that backlash - no one calls Princeton "WASPrinceton" because it's "normal" that white Christians are the majority. It's really up to you - if you go with the flow and accept that white Protestants are now just one more "minority" in a country made up of nothing but minorities you'll be fine. If you want to be thought of as the "default" culture that everyone else has to go along with and pretend to be part of (Jewish movie stars all used to have to change their names to something WASP), then you many not be happy, but get used to it because this is what the world you live in is going to be like unless you go back to S. Dakota or some other backwater.</p>
<p>Great post Percy!</p>
<p>"If you want to be thought of as the "default" culture that everyone else has to go along with and pretend to be part of (Jewish movie stars all used to have to change their names to something WASP), then you many not be happy, but get used to it because this is what the world you live in is going to be like unless you go back to S. Dakota or some other backwater."</p>
<p>Couldn't have said it better myself</p>
<p>Come on, no one like that even exists at Penn. And like it or not, the Ivy League is still the realm of the WASP.</p>
<p>Didn't I get absolutely blasted on another thread for mentioning that the Penn culture was very Jewish? In fact, my son was accused of being in the Klu Klux Klan!<br>
There are many Asians, as well, but my son said they keep a low profile, whereas like I said before, Hillel is like a varsity sport.
Not saying this is a negative or a positive- just something to consider.</p>
<p>Dcds Op????</p>
<p>more gefilte fish!</p>
<p>Percy - Here's the context. My son hangs out with the non-white kids in his high school, the few there are frankly. He is looking for a culturally diverse school, that's one thing he felt really existed at Penn when we visited, enhanced by the city of Philadelphia. We're from Northern California. We are used to being the non-dominant majority as the Hispanic and Asian populations here are fantastic and numerous.</p>
<p>This concern is mine and mine alone. Many years ago I toddled off to college on the East Coast. And was absolutely ambushed by the separation between Jew and non-Jew amongst the creative population at Princeton many years ago. My business school experience was similar - I was even told I was the "token shiksa" because so many of the other students were Jewish. Neither my children nor I are Christian in anything but heritage - I am actually a dedicated atheist:). The part that was hard was being excluded. That was my experience. I remember once trying out for a play and not being cast because the director wanted an all-Jewish cast. And it was a Bertold Brecht play....I didn't mind the diffences, I like cultures in general. But it sucks to be shut out. I am just being the obsessive mom trying to figure out social fit for a son whom I adore. Well, being a mom, what do you expect:)?</p>
<p>And in some way I'm digging so deep because as I have said before I find the kids on this board to be in many ways pretty similar to my son. That's a compliment, BTW.</p>
<p>Alumother - there are many different (and overlapping) social circles at Penn, Jewish and non-Jewish. Some are very welcoming and inclusive, others are exclusive and composed of people with a common background (race, religion etc.) . But Penn is an enormous place and your son will surely find his niche and and ample # of friends, some of whom will be Jewish (and Asian and Latino, etc, etc.). It really shouldn't be a problem at all.</p>