Chance a junior for liberal arts colleges!

Chance Me / Match Me!
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hi!! im currently a junior in hs very scared about my upcoming college app process!

demographics: asian (korean), bisexual female, child of immigrants, i go to the best public hs in my state in a magnet program (school doesnt rank), family agi is mid 70k

intended majors: double major in philosophy and political science, maybe international relations and pre-law, probably minor in art history (i’m honestly not very decided on majors yet except i know for sure i want to major in philosophy)

GPA: 3.91 UW, 4.67 W

APs:

  • 9th - AP NSL (5)
  • 10th - AP Seminar (5), AP Human Geo - (5), APUSH - (3, but im retaking this year to hopefully get a 5)
  • 11th (taking all of these this year) - AP World, AP Art History, AP Lang, AP Microeconomics, AP Macroeconomics
  • 12th (plan) - AP Enviro Science, AP Psych, AP Research, AP Lit, AP Statistics

SAT: 1360 without studying, im retaking this summer, my goal is 1480-1550

coursework: almost all APs and honors (minus classes like gym and health education from freshman year) except my calc class this year because i got a C in AP Calc during my first sem so i dropped down… i’m planning to explain this in my apps tho because i got SA’d earlier this year and had to miss a ton of school for therapy

awards:

  • Foyle Young Poets of the Year Award
  • National History Day: School Winner
  • AP Scholar with Honor
  • National Rural and Small Town Recognition Award
  • hopefully AP Capstone award after next year
  • also i won a bunch of small scale/county-wide writing contests, got my poetry published in some small poetry places

ecs:

  • founded a philosophy club at my school (president), i’d say this is the ec i’m most active in i teach the students in my club about philosophy and we do discussions, we also go out into our local communities/libraries and hold sessions, planning to host book drives next year
  • debate all 4 years, made it to my regional playoffs 10th grade
  • NHS, planning to run for vice president
  • National English Honor Society, also planning to run for a position
  • Asian-American Progressive Student Union all 4 years
  • Period Club all 4 years (it helps distribute menstrual products in community)
  • county Pride organization
  • worked at a restaurant sophomore/junior year
  • tutored children whose first language wasn’t English
  • some other small clubs at my school, no leadership positions

essay: i’m planning to write about how i didn’t know any English when i first started school, but i’ve now been in a magnet program for the humanities in both middle and high school and also tutor children who were in similar circumstances to mine (see second to last point on my ecs.) ik it sounds weak but i’m a good essay writer so i think i could make it work!

add info: planning to take the biliteracy test in Korean early next year and i’m fluent so i think i’ll do fine, my family income is high on paper but we have to support my mom’s family overseas so we don’t have the best living circumstances, i’ll probably write about how i had to work sophomore/junior year to pay our water bills and groceries, applying to internships this summer (probably will end up being one with my local congressman and another one i’m not sure yet) since i couldnt last summer because of my job/family situation, i’d preferably want a lot of fin aid and i’m currently applying to some scholarships

recs: i’m on p good terms with all my teachers, but i feel like only one (lang/english teacher thank god) will write me a really good rec to be honest

schools:

  • my dreams are boston uni, nyu, carleton college, vassar, barnard, colby, other hidden ivies/liberal arts colleges
  • safety: my state school, american uni
  • abroad: university college of london, korea university, yonsei university
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Carleton is strong in political science and philosophy, I believe. Have you tried schools with strong English programs or creative writing? Schools like Grinnell, Wesleyan?

Colorado College, Kenyon College, Mt Holyoke, Macalester (in the Twin Cities) might be a good fit, as well.

For more scholarship aid, you might try schools that are not in the top 40. My son and daughter have loved their time at small liberal arts colleges, getting an excellent education, and earning great scholarships.

Good luck in all you’re doing!

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thank u so much! i’ll definitely have to research more but wesleyan is one of the schools i might apply to, and if i do apply, will be a reach. and while grinnell does appeal to me, i’m trying to keep my apps limited to the north/northeast because i just feel more comfortable in those areas!

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Why are you scared? Don’t be scared - just make sure you have a balanced list of reaches, targets, and safeties.

Your dreams are reaches -

What is your state school? AU is not a safety - and you need to demonstrate interest.

So your interests are varied. Does being bi-sexual impact where you want to be?

I’d ask this -

what do you want in a school.

Size - you have BU/NYU and then Carleton/Vassar

Weather

Do you care about sports or greek life

Is there a part of the country you want to be in or avoid?

Given your family AGI - are you willing to pursue schools with higher merit, even if they’re not exactly your cup of tea

Tell us more. The reach schools are easy - it’s those target and safety that aren’t.

An AU - you’re not going to be able to afford most likely. But a College of Charleston, if you get the Fellows and/or International Scholar, you may be able to.

For English, a U of Iowa is a top school.

How about a school like Kalamazoo or Depauw for a liberal arts school or Conway / Ogelthorpe that will match a state school. K and Ogelthorpe are in liberal cities, etc.

Not really giving suggestions but we have to expand your mindset - in part due to costs and in part due to your very good profile…but lots are very good.

Give us more !!!

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thank u for ur reply! here are my responses:

  • my home state is Maryland, so my state school is UMD. this means that AU is also in my state
  • i might use being bisexual in one of my supps to tie it back to my participation in the county Pride organization, but honestly i probably won’t
  • as for size, i honestly don’t mind. location is big for me, i’m going to try to limit my selection to all north/northeast schools because i feel more comfortable in those areas. however new york is a state that relly appeals to me
  • don’t really mind weather
  • i don’t care about sports or greek life haha
  • i will probably choose the school that will give me the most financial aid because i can’t afford to take out huge loans, but i will still pursue schools with higher merit

reaches: all mentioned above (BU, NYU, carleton, vassar, barnard, colby), also wellesley, smith college
target: i don’t really know (suggestions would definitely be helpful), maybe korea university because the acceptance rate for international students is around 50%
safety: UMD, maybe some other in state schools

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Try the Net Price Calculators on the college web sites. You may be surprised at the gap you have between what you can afford and what you are likely to get in aid (sorry to say this!). And these NPCs tend to be pretty accurate.

The more outside your ‘comfort zone’, the more you escape the hyper-competitiveness of college applications in the Northeast. If you are willing to go a little South or out towards the middle of the country, you may be rewarded with scholarships.

Similarly, a college or university in the Northeast that is not in the top 40 would also reward you with merit aid. (I’m thinking of Clark University, or Goucher in the Northeast).You could always join an honors program at a larger public school as well, to get a cheaper education.

The College Solution is an older book but its author, Lynn O’Shaughnessy, has published many blog articles about making college affordable.

Don’t discount the schools that may not have made it onto your list the first time. The best school to attend is one with the majors you want, great faculty in the areas you like, a great community for you, and, most of all, is one you can afford.

I would recommend exploring a few places (from small school to big campus) so you know what feels right to you. Visit a campus, talk to the admissions office, and see if you can sit in on a class, meet a faculty member or a student, besides doing the campus tour. If you can’t travel far, try a small, a medium, or larger-sized campus near you.

CollegeXpress, Princeton Review, College Data, Niche web sites are useful for measures of what students appreciate in their schools (majors, student lifestyles, faculty-student ratio, campus life, etc.)

Net Price Calculator (to gauge price against EFC, etc.), Prepscholar (for grade/test score ‘chance me’ functions for schools), College Results for diversity on campus, College Navigator for how many students actually graduate in a major in a year, can all be helpful.

Familiarize yourself with the potential price now so that you can have a conversation with your family about what is realistic. Schools that provide aid only will use your EFC as a guide; schools that provide merit scholarships can do a lot to bring that still-hefty price down!

Sorry if I am ‘momming’ here. I wish you the best of luck!

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Based on your tentative academic interests, some of there schools may appeal to you:

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Great lists! And they appear to link directly to the school’s relevant department.

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dont apologize for “momming!” i definitely appreciate it, because my parents seem to think that more prestigious school gives out the most aid/scholarships, hence my limited mindset. i’ll admit i don’t know much about the difference between my chances of fin aid and merit based scholarships, but i’ll try my best to learn by next year. i know that if i don’t get enough aid/scholarship so that my loans are around $5k per semester, i’ll go to my safety, or, need be, a community college then transfer. so as money is a very important factor, thank u for ur detailed reply explaining to me more in depth about the process! you’ve definitely swayed my mind about colleges more in the south and midwest, so thank you again.

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I definitely have spent some time becoming familiar with all of these things over the years!
Here is an article (on one of the web sites I mentioned) that explains the difference: How to Get Merit Aid from Colleges | CollegeData.

Think of merit aid as a way for schools that are not in the tippy-top to compete for amazing students like you. You can gauge your strength as an applicant and see which schools still fits all your interests and gives you a great deal (this just means you shop for schools wisely and do research to discover a school’s strenghts when you are not as familiar with it).

One thing that gets confusing is the idea that the best (and wealthiest) schools meet all of a student’s need. NEED is a relative term. When you say that your parents use their income to support family overseas, that means that there is actually less money for your education than a school thinks you have available. You can try to explain this to a school, during a financial aid appeal. However, it is not guaranteed that the expense would be considered a ‘necessary one’. (I don’t know much about it but if your parents don’t pay at least half of the relatives’ expenses, then the relative is probably not officially considered a dependent.)

So the FAFSA or the CSS Profile (learn which ones you have to submit at each school) may come up with a different expected family contribution (EFC). Side note: many schools meet 90-95% of the demonstrated need rather than the whole thing, so that can also be an issue. The EFC that you receive on the form is sort of a starting number rather than a final number.

Schools that meet NEED often don’t need to attract students because they are already so popular, so the bargains are at the school that may be out of the way, or not as well known.

You can begin evaluating a price fit by playing around with those net price calculators. Try one of your favorite schools, but also try schools you had not thought of before! Once you do one, many of the Net Price Calculators look very similar so it shouldn’t take you long after you gather all the information the first time. (Here is Boston University’s: https://www.bu.edu/finaid/aid-basics/cost-of-attendance/net-price-calculator/ and Clark University’s: https://www.clarku.edu/offices/financial-aid/prospective-students/u-s-students/net-price-calculator/)

Keep charts of all the information (okay, I am a sucker for a chart…) and you will be an expert college shopper in no time.

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i will definitely be making a chart soon. sounds like a lot of work but i’m glad i know i should be doing it. thank you for ur specifications on the difference between merit aid and financial aid, it genuinely really helped me understand my situation better. thank you!!

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With an AGI in the mid-70s a meets need school will almost definitely be cheaper for this student than one with merit. Unless you find somewhere with both that combined meets your need. I agree with running as many NPCs as possible to see which schools are within range. This means your family needs to determine a number they are comfortable paying - not all meets need schools will meet your federal EFC. If you like one of the meets need schools the best, and the NPC looks doable, consider early decision as it will give you an admission boost and many of the more generous schools are more selective. If you want some more match schools I suggest looking at Bard, Connecticut College, Mt Holyoke College, maybe Skidmore, Bennington, Sarah Lawrence, maybe Bryn Mawr (more of a reach).

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That’s fair but we don’t know about assets and home equity. There are also auto merit schools and more.

But yes step one would be running NPCs and I’d be running maybe less difficult to get into schools such as F&M, Connecticut as well as the tippy top because there will likely be a variance.

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I believe OP is shooting for more than meets determined need.

Also, merit aid can be substantial. One can receive $20/30k+, in addition to grants/loans/work-study, etc.

If a school meets only established need (FAFSA/CSS Profile), and the family cannot meet expected EFC, merit can bridge a gap.

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You have an interesting profile and I look forward to seeing how your college search process goes. Once we know what your annual budget for school is, and what the NPCs says, then we might be able to give better recs. But if you’re trying to stay in the northeast, these are the schools I would recommend for you to look into.

This list is categorized based on my very fallible sense of what might be your chances of acceptance. That does not mean that these are the chances for whether they will be affordable. A school can have a high likelihood of admission, but a small chance for a big huge scholarship. Mentally classify that school in the harder-to-get category then. Also, a school’s admittance rate has to do with how popular a school is, not what the quality of the school is. And lastly, you are very lucky that you live in Maryland. You have some excellent in-state publics to choose from!

Also, these schools have a range of sizes, but are predominantly small. Some are in urban areas, others in more rural ones, and others in-between.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Drew (NJ): About 1600 undergrads
  • McDaniel (MD): About 1800 undergrads
  • Seton Hall (NJ): About 6k undergrads
  • St. Mary’s College of Maryland: About 1500 undergrads at Maryland’s public liberal arts college
  • Suffolk (MA) About 4200 undergrads
  • Towson (MD): About 18k undergrads
  • U. of Maryland – Baltimore County: About 11k undergrads
  • Washington (MD): About 1k undergrads
  • Washington & Jefferson (PA ): About 1200 undergrads
  • Wheaton (MA): About 1700 undergrads

Likely (60-79%)

  • Allegheny (PA ): About 1600 undergrads
  • College of New Jersey: About 7k undergrads

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Clark (MA): About 2300 undergrads
  • Dickinson (PA ): About 2200 undergrads
  • Mount Holyoke (MA): Women’s college with about 2200 undergrads
  • U. of Maryland – College Park: About 31k undergrads

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Brandeis (MA): About 3600 undergrads
  • Connecticut College: About 1800 undergrads
  • Skidmore (NY): About 2700 undergrads
  • Smith (MA): Women’s college with about 2600 undergrads

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Vassar (NY): About 2500 undergrads
  • Wellesley (MA): Women’s college with about 2500 undergrads
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American University considers level of interest to be very important – it evidently does not like being used as a “safety” behind more selective colleges (probably in particular Georgetown University and George Washington University).

Pre-law can be done with any major. Philosophy is a reasonable major for pre-law, since it includes both the usual type of humanities practice and logical thinking that is useful in the LSAT and in parsing laws as written.

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