Chance a student with a great (not Ivy great but still great) GPA strange ECs [Lehigh, Brown, and UCSB in particular] [CA resident, 3.7 GPA (3.8/4.0/4.7 for UC), <$30k; pure math + physics, economics, bioinformatics, or philosophy]

Chance Me / Match Me!
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No, the point is that you haven’t done anything yet. You don’t have a paper. And you explicitly stated already that you won’t have a paper months from now—just some “notes”.

It’s extremely doubtful you would have a viable avenue for original research on even a small problem in a given field after a few days of looking at some textbooks. It’s not plausible in the slightest that you have found a new path to Nobel-level inquiry. You don’t even know what you don’t know yet. These threads keep turning into model case studies of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

As others have commented, rather than being helpful to your college apps, this new EC appears to be a negative and your time would be better spent elsewhere.

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I actually completely disagree with this.

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This is a really long passion-filled thread.

So the gist is, correct me if I am wrong:

  • OP wants to apply to the aforementioned schools as a freshman but be treated as a junior standing “transfer” applicant

  • OP doesn’t have the budget to pay for private or otherwise, so wants to get sufficient assistance for just 2 years worth of college (3rd and 4th year)

  • OP is basing the assumption of his “junior” level standing based on CC college classes taken thus far (in OP’s opinion will merit a “junior” standing for admission purposes)

  • OP is citing his hobbies/passions as possible scientific research/literal publications

Is this a fairly accurate synopsis?

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No, there are some things that have changed from the last thread

In the last thread most of the things you said are true but it was also under the assumption that my grandfather would struggle to pay for university. However as I said in this thread the actual budget now seems to be in the 20-30k per year range.

Starting with Junior standing would be very useful for the past where most of my unis were extremely expensive, but now most of these unis aren’t all that expensive (I think my most expensive option here is High Point which was still 25k per year for me). Now it’s something that’d simply be nice to have but isn’t as important as the past.

And for the hobbies please do not give me that much credit lol. I can publish some regular books but the research I do not want to make it seem as if I’m actually capable of going extraordinarily far with it (at least without an extreme amount of help)

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A part time worker at McDonald’s is a good EC!

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I don’t really understand the logic behind that. I really cannot think of a single scenario where this is true because just about anyone can get a job at maccas for a bit but I don’t think the same can be said for someone who actively tried to further their knowledge of a subject and started to enter the research field, especially if their intentions are clearly research (as I’m applying for regular math everywhere)

Like I’m not saying it’s a bad EC but looking at it, there’s not a whole lot that you can say about a teenager who works at McDonald’s as it’s something available to everyone. At the very least for someone who tried to research something you can at least say “they’re curious”. I really wouldn’t know what I’d think about someone who said they worked in service for a few days since I worked at maccas there was just too diverse a group of people to say anything about people who have worked there

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See- this is the point you are missing.

ALL research requires an extreme amount of help. We are all standing on the shoulders of giants-- that’s just a given in math and science. This is not a bug, it’s a feature.

So your willingness to accept help, collaborate, be humble, own up to what you don’t know-- this is a given in the field. What is NOT a given are actual, basic building block skills. You aren’t interested in MIT but take a look at their rather large set of required courses- required of everyone. Studying econ? You still need lab skills from bio. Studying CS? You still need physics. Studying ANYTHING? You still need the core HASS courses (humanities, arts and social sciences). In order to produce anything of value, you need to knock these basics out of the park. All the later stuff builds on the early stuff. A researcher working on cancer treatments is useless in the lab without advanced statistical training. The boring stuff- how to set up a control, how big should the sample size be- all that freshman year statistics. And not just the concepts- being adept at actually getting useful information out of a regression.

I am growing fond of you. I think your energy and passion are going to take you far in life. But you have a tenuous grasp on how the world works- and even when folks here are very patient in trying to explain it to you, you seem determined to tell them the five ways they are wrong.

You are severely missing the point of getting a job if you think it’s about “selectivity”.

But again- you do you.

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When people said it was a “great EC” I thought they meant as in it was great to put onto my application rather than great to do in general.

Getting a job is a great thing and I would actually like to have one, just that it’s going to be between either that or getting my beauty rest on saturdays and sundays and as god’s sleepiest soldier I have my priorities :laughing:

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If you worked at McDonalds - it’d be much better for your resume then saying that you attempted research.

Working at McDonalds - is a primo entry for your college app - if you did.

And your bank account too.

And who knows, maybe you’d get free yummy hot caramel sundaes!!

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It demonstrates a good work ethic, even at an entry level job. It comes off as a job the student applied for and not and “internship” with a family friend. Heck all of my kids had year round jobs starting at 14, garden center, pizzeria’s, reffing, lifeguarding. My college junior interviewed for many companies for internships for next summer, she was offered a job from all of them (actuary). I think the fact that she can demonstrate a 6 year work history at non glamorous jobs helped.

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This is OP’s 4th “chance me” thread and the common theme seems to be finding a new way to “game” the college admissions system. Which begs question: is any of this real?

Here’s the link to a previous one for anyone curious to take a look:

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So what if everyone CAN get a job at McDonald’s? Not just anyone can SURVIVE a job at McDonald’s - it takes hard work, teamwork, a sense of humor, resilience, ability to deal with customers (sometimes angry customers - tact and diplomacy), the ability to show up every shift and show up on time (responsibility and maturity). Do you have any idea how VALUED these qualities are by colleges (as well as potential future employers)? They are highly valued.

You know what isn’t particularly valued? Doing some research with zero results and an admitted inability to actually carry out said research and produce results. This counts for exactly nothing in admissions.

If you love your research question and want to pursue it, great. It’s sort of a hobby.

But unless there are some actual results (for example, a peer-reviewed publication - and notes don’t count), no AO will be impressed by it. Do it if you love it. Don’t do it because you think it will help in competitive admission, because it really won’t. There is nothing concrete to it.

A job, on the other hand, even one at McDonald’s, does come with concrete skills and experiences. It says far more about your character than some wishy washy research project that you admit you are not actually capable of doing.

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How about publishing just one “regular” book? That would be a really good EC if it was legit! Especially if it was actually published by someone, rather than you saying you have some sort of unfinished and unedited manuscript laying around. Getting a short story published in a literary journal would be more impressive than the latter—it would demonstrate dedication to your craft, persistence in finding an outlet for it, and approval by others.

Keep in mind also that there are different types of “research”. There’s the formal investigation of and publication of new findings in a given field. And there’s the more colloquial sense of simply reading up on a subject and informing yourself. I think one issue in these threads is that you are confusing the latter with the former.

Another issue in these threads can be summarized by the subtext of this quote (often falsely attributed to Oscar Wilde) from J.M. Barrie’s play The Admirable Crichton: “I’m not young enough to know everything.”

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At this point, your novel is not complete. So it doesn’t matter.

You have not yet done this. So it doesn’t matter.

You have not done this either, and actually don’t plan to until you are accepted to college. So it doesn’t matter in terms on admissions.

And did what? Being the founder of a club does not matter one bit. What you DO matters more. So…at this point until you tell what YOU have contributed, this doesn’t matter either.

Again…not something you have yet done. I would suggest you work with under privileged people. Do something that matters to others…not something that you think will impress adcoms.

Since you have “no shot in hell” of completing this…again it doesn’t matter. This could be the best idea in the world…but you won’t be demonstrating that. You are thinking someone else will take the ball and run with it, which will be great for THEM, not you.

Once it’s published come back. I’ll reserve judgement on this one…maybe it will get done.

There was another recent poster who had extremely exaggerated ECs listed on his EC list. And he was making claims he had done things that just likely weren’t possible.

You have a list of ECs, many or mostly not yet accomplished. Until these are done…really…it’s just a lot of nothing.

You need to concentrate on the positive things you HAVE done. It’s quality, not quantity. You seem to think a long list of things you might accomplish is impressive. It’s not.

Adding getting a job anywhere shows responsibility, and commitment. Ability to take directions and follow through on tasks. Even fast food restaurants will give you these skills, and they are important ones to have. Frankly, it sounds pretty snotty to look down on those who work hard at fast food restaurants.

And national merit commended…while it will make you feel good…won’t move the needle at your reach schools…including Brown.

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You obviously know nothing about adults and how they think.

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@tsbna44 I don’t really think so, this goes with what a lot of people said but from my experience I’d be surprised if it showed anything. Like for the solid year I worked at maccas the only time I’ve seen a person get anywhere close to getting fired was when they were revealed to have been texting minors some nsfw stuff. Even then, all that happened to them was that their shifts were moved to ones where minors were not present. So I think that if someone like that could maintain their job just about anyone can. Although the hot fudge sundaes were really good. Tbh only thing I missed from that job (besides the money of course)

@momofthree24, I think this is only my 3rd one and I’ve really only tried to "game"college admissions once for the 2nd one. And in that one I think I’m still gaming the system because most unis I’m applying to aren’t having me pay exorbitant tuitions.

My demographics have changed mostly because my parents hid my racial identity from me. I am still extremely angry at them for doing that because I don’t think them revealing that I’m actually a Nubian rather than Arab would change anything. They claimed it was to protect me from my father’s side of the family but the thing is… My father is already 100% a Nubian so I don’t know how that works. Hell I think all of the people on my father’s side of the family is like 50% Nubian. I really don’t get why they decided to do that but it’s not relevant

@worriedmomucb, I feel as if you’re overexaggerating. Like I’m still moving the ball on something, I don’t really get why you feel as if not fully completing something is somehow worth less than not doing it at all because I feel very differently. I don’t know how AOs will react but I highly doubt there’ll be “no reaction”. I do believe that there’s not a good chance of my getting accepted to many of these institutions but I don’t think that this isn’t going to at least sway AOs in some way. It’ll show AOs what I’m specifically interested in with mathematics, what I want to do to in the near future, and that I’m capable of doing long-term academic projects. All that a job from maccas does is show… nothing really lol. As I’ve said, the closest I’ve ever seen anyone get to being fired was a felony and even then the only reason why they were even being considered for a firing is because they didn’t know if having a person like that coworker working with minors was legal lol. So all that it shows about my character is… I don’t even know lol.

@YoLo2, I do want to publish a regular book. And I want to. however, I’d rather not submit a short story in a literary journal. There’s a lot of restrictions to those journals and they don’t let me go into the topics I want to go into. Plus working with hard deadlines just doesn’t work because it doesn’t let me work at the pace I think is best. I’ll publish my work when I feel good about it, not when some competition is about to end or some journal’s time for submission is about to end.

@Thumper1, I never really understood why people do this thing where they just assume nothing happens ever. I don’t know to me it feels really belittling when people just assume things will never get complete. I mean hell the community service thing you just assume it doesn’t happen despite it literally being a requirement for me to graduate from my IB program. I feel as if this post as a whole was meant to just make a mockery of things I’m interested in and things I work towards which I do not appreciate at all. I do hope I am misinterpreting your post however.

@circuitrider, maybe not but as stated earlier working at a maccas or some other place isn’t difficult, it’s a major time sink yes, but not difficult. Hell, from my experience I think the only situation someone could get fired is if they didn’t show up to work for a month straight or if they beat up their manager. Anything less than that and I’d be surprised if I saw someone get fired for it. All that a job shows to me is just that someone has a lot of free time lol.

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I never said these things wouldn’t get completed. I said…that until they DO get completed, they aren’t worth anything.

Come back here after your junior year has ended with what you REALLY have accomplished, not a long list of things that might or might not happen.

Many high schools have mandatory community service. The service you choose to do and what you actually do will be more important than fulfilling the mandatory hours. And likely won’t move the needle for acceptance to your reach schools anyway.

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If you want to learn fly fishing, it pays to learn about fish- their habitats, behaviors, life cycle, etc.

Similarly, if you want to be admitted to college, it pays to learn ABOUT college- the things adcom’s value in an applicant, the things faculty value in the students they teach, etc.

And if you are looking for substantial financial aid, it REALLY pays to understand the world of paid employment. If you are eligible for federal work study (which I suspect you are if you are getting all these free application offers) you will be required to work for a portion of your financial aid. And at least for freshman year, it’s unlikely that the work will be glamorous or sophisticated or impressive sounding. Making waffles in the cafeteria? Handing out keys in the housing office? Shelving books in the library? That type of thing.

And even if you don’t get work/study, you will still likely need paid employment to cover your incidentals while on campus. Scorning ANY type of honest, paid labor is not a good way to start your life-long relationship with work, pay checks, and the capitalist system.

But I’m starting to understand your dilemma. You are not the first HS kid on CC who posts looking for affirmation and then gets mad when the seasoned adults suggest that you have your facts wrong. So-- you posted here for help. We are trying to help you. What you do with that information-- ball is in your court.

You gave me a big chuckle about “working with hard deadlines just doesn’t work”. Yeah, we all see that. Doing something on a timely basis- starting, digging in, concluding-- is not your thing. But we are trying to help you with baby steps to fix that (it is a terrible habit to take to college btw. College is FILLED with hard deadlines. And professors don’t care what does and doesn’t work for you. Hand a paper in a day late? You get docked a full letter grade).

So we are suggesting baby steps. Showing up for work on time when you’d rather be sleeping is a baby step. Submitting a short story to a literary journal is a baby step. These will help you when it’s time to finish your senior thesis and your old procrastination habits start creeping back…

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Adcoms don’t care if you found the work boring. They know what working at McD’s is like. Adults are not as dumb as you think we are.

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Agree that “planned” ECs aren’t worth anything to AOs.

Also agree that returning for feedback after junior year grades are finalized and OP can share actual accomplishments will allow posters to provide better guidance. There’s too much wishful thinking and a lack of demonstrated commitment to much of anything to provide any meaningful feedback.

If OP wants to share their hobbies and interests (research, etc) on the application, the Additional Information section would be appropriate.

I wish OP a successful junior year. Hopefully they will give serious consideration to the pretty consistent advice in this thread.

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