thank you everyone, this is beautiful.
I am downright worn out by the competitive atmosphere in my high school, so I’m really happy that college will provide a different kind of experience.
if anyone has insight on the second part of my question:
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but for ex. if saw a SWAP thinking that I have at least a reasonable chance to be considered or a reasonable chance to thrive in the community there, I would apply 100%. those who know me tell me that I can get into these schools, but I don’t know because “the grass is greener on the other side” thinking distorts my perspective when I look at another applicant’s credentials. this is especially because I go to a magnet school with a lot of high-achievers who have the undoubted ability to make themselves an ideal applicant. realistically how much effort should I devote to researching match schools relative to reach schools? and what’s it like out in the real world – what kinds of people are applying to these schools outside of ridiculously brilliant students who are seemingly made for college applications? are there people like me applying to these schools?
Stop talking to and listening to other people unless it’s your guidance counselor/college counselor, or your parents. Simply put, other 17 year old’s have no clue where you can get in, where you will thrive, whether or not you are an ideal applicant.
Stop making this so hard!
I have a family member who is a relatively recent Wesleyan grad. He majored in a humanities discipline, but by his own admission, spent most of his time playing music (not his major). Jamming with friends, participating in organized music groups, performing, rehearsing, trying his hand at composing.
And yet-- I keep hearing that Wesleyan is a place for preppy kids (he is not) who focus on their grades (he did not) and are obsessed with prestige (is a local coffee shop a “prestigious” place to perform? I dunno!)
Stop talking about college with other HS kids. You will have opportunities for visits, virtual visits, actually getting the vibe of the campus. I’ve never met a “cut-throat” literature major although I’m sure there is a mythic grade-grubbing lit major out there in the popular imagination whose paper on “The role of religious leaders in the works of Jane Austen” was INFINITELY better than someone else’s essay on “Social status and marriage- a comparative look at Edith Wharton and Henry James”, and the Jane Austen author won’t let ANYONE see his notes or collaborate. At all.
yep, you’re completely right. I completely agree with everything you’re saying, and yet it’s hard when most people just want to talk college (I personally want to do otherwise). off topic but social interactions are pretty limited at my school because of this obsession with college.
Wesleyan, by the way, is a college I visited and thought that it was a match school for me. I would visit every school if I could schedule them and show up. I love all of your suggestions.
the thing is, my counselor doesn’t discount my chances at any college (even something like Princeton). even though I know next to nothing about college admissions, I know for certain that it’s a hard ask for me applying to Princeton… so I don’t know what to make of his advice (apparently the counseling dept. is compiling a list of applicants for each college. my school sends so many applicants that even they admit it’s a competition within the school).
of course there is no such thing as a cut-throat lit major. but high school has been so stressful in this way that I don’t want to be with the same people during college.
sorry that this is a tangent, but this means a lot.
TLDR: I know for sure what I don’t want because I’ve experienced it.
I don’t have as specific an idea of what I want, but that’s fine with me since I still have a general direction and trust my instinct to decide which school would be the best experience for me.
Definitely take the chance to talk to students at these colleges though! The admissions office should be able to connect you if you don’t get a chance to visit in person.
If you said that you wanted to go to Princeton, I imagine everyone on the board would say you think you have a shot. Princeton had a 5.8% acceptance rate for this fall’s incoming class, so even if you are two or three times as likely as a regular Princeton applicant to be accepted, your chances would still be about 12-18%. And most people think that if one’s chances for acceptance are less than 20%, that it’s a reach. That is not saying that you don’t have a legitimate shot at it. If you did research and found that Princeton (or any other highly selective/rejective school) was a good fit for you, I think it’s entirely appropriate to throw an app its way.
I think the issue that arises is when a high school senior’s list of college applications is really dominated by schools where they have low odds of admission. So I wouldn’t necessarily eliminate a school because it has a low chance of giving an acceptance, but I’d make sure that I’d be happy to attend any college on your list, no matter how selective/rejective it is. A school’s admissions rate is not an indication of the quality of the academics at a school. There are many schools (many of which have been mentioned) that offer strong academics without being highly rejective.
I would look at colleges’ websites, Niche, Fiske, Princeton Review, etc, to see which schools feel like they may be a better fit for you. Then of that narrowed down list, watch some student panels, look at the social media of the university and its students, etc, and see if that helps give you a better sense of the school’s population (though admittedly, people who post frequently on social media may be part of a certain “type” of the population and not necessarily the population on the whole).
For schools you think are getting even better in the fit department, try visiting the college campuses while school is in session. See if you can talk to students who attend their now (whether an alum from your high school, friend of the family, or just someone the admissions office puts you in contact with). If the school has a club that reflects your particular interests, reach out to the students in the club to see if you can talk with someone about the vibe/issues you care about.
I will say that I think you’re going to do well, wherever you land. Wishing you the best.
thank you so much AustenNut. this is great closure for me. I’ve started doing the things you’ve suggested, but obv I will dive deeper.
I’ll update this thread with any news later on.
thank you to everyone else for such compassionate advice and for putting up with my bs . I can say now that the college admissions process has gotten less intimidating for me.
UChicago, preppy? I was always under the impression that the overall vibe at UChicago was kind of nerdy/intellectual. The rest, I might have guessed… but not UChicago.
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More apropos of the thread/OP:
OP, I think you have a fairly good handle on things, as long as the schools you are considering are affordable. It sounds like you love your safety(-ies) as well, which is very good.
Edit:
ED1 to Bowdoin and (if necessary) ED2 to Wes or Kenyon would be fine. Or, if preferences change, that’s fine too. Just do visit any schools you are considering for ED application(s), before applying.
OP- you are going to be FINE. There are likely 30-40 colleges which would be fantastic places for you to thrive and grow and learn.
Here’s the trick- let’s say you love to surf (making this up) and so one of the reasons you live college A is its proximity to surfing. Well- that’s an inflection point for you. Are you willing to attend a college which might not be as good an academic and intellectual fit, JUST because it’s close to surfing? Or are you OK telling yourself “I’ll surf on vacation and move to Honolulu after I graduate from college but I’m ok giving up surfing during the semester for four years”.
Once you have clarity on this point, the rest is much less fraught.
If you had posted nothing about yourself other than you wanted to study literature in an environment with other students (and faculty) who love literature, I’d be suggesting colleges as disparate as Beloit, U Chicago, Brandeis, Bard, Bowdoin, Kenyon (for sure), Connecticut College, U Michigan, Rice, Iowa, Carleton, Macalester, SUNY Binghamton, Wesleyan, Fordham, Haverford, Holy Cross, Brown. And about 30 others which likely includes one of the public U’s in your own state.
Once you did a deep dive, you would likely learn that most of these colleges are not super-preprofessional if you aren’t interested in the pre-med required classes, or need a particular GPA for grad school/Wall Street. And then on your next deep dive you’d figure out which places would allow you to study other random things AND switch majors late in the game without needing an extra semester, if that comes to pass. Etc.
And you’d be super excited about most of the colleges on your list (which is appropriate and wonderful since virtually all of them are fantastic places.)
Cutthroat is likely mainly found where there is a highly competitive goal (e.g. medical school) or where there is highly competitive secondary admission to major.
Yes, being in a major popular with pre-meds is likely the bigger factor than the school name in how cutthroat the environment is. That JHU is known as a popular college for pre-meds does not necessarily mean that it is any more cutthroat than average for those who are not pre-meds and do not take courses that are filled with pre-meds.
With the OP being interested in literature and philosophy, that does not seem to be a concern. Certainly, there may be some grade-focused pre-law students, but pre-law students tend to be more dispersed across majors.
I can think of a few schools that are tough to get into (so attract kids who thrive on excelling) and have enough selectivity built into admission to clubs, sororities, special programs/internships that they breed and feed a certain amount of competition/cutthroat behavior. It can spill into different arenas.
OP, none of these is on your list, but I think the characterization of “only pre-meds and xxx are cutthroat” isn’t entirely accurate.
A lot of good background, though it’s hard to prioritize without your help. Several of the schools, it appears from @AustenNut 's research, don’t offer Japanese as a major. I didn’t read your comments to say you wanted to major in Japanese, but maybe that’s a fair thing on which to focus as it might affect opportunities to study Japanese literature. IDK. Is that a problem? If it is, eliminate those schools. Then you have Kenyon, which does offer it apparently, and is a great place for writing.
Setting Japanese aside, you’re going to get a solid education in literature and philosophy, and you’re going to hone your writing skills, at any of these schools; so if it were me I wouldn’t try too hard to find “perfect” and focus on bigger picture things, such as, will you like being there.
Your comment about having an ‘outsider mentality’ brings Wesleyan to the fore, IMHO. It’s one of the schools I know best among the LACs, and having an independent and unusual take on things fits the culture there to a T. Btw, any interest in Brown? I had a D at Wes and have one at Brown. The two schools have a lot of overlap, and though my D is a math concentrator, Brown seems like a wonderful place for interests in literature and philosophy. I absolutely love the place myself.
IDK, notwithstanding the other considerations, the presence of a Japanese major + extraordinarily robust writing programs seems to suggest Kenyon. But if the Japanese part of it isn’t determinative, then you really can’t go wrong at any of them.
Btw, there will be “bro” factor at all the New England LACs, Wes included, but it’s probably least pronounced there. From Kenyon’s fraternity scene and some issues with overboard drinking from a few years ago, I would hazard a guess that Kenyon has a bro population too, but I don’t know how prominent it is. My take on that is hang out with the people you want to hang out with and ignore the others. There will be more than enough non-bro at any of these schools.
Lastly, based on some experience, I don’t view Pomona as a cut-throat place. Also have never heard it described as such.
I was looking at literature/philosophy mainly, so relieved right now since I’ll be in safe hands anywhere for those (this goes for student culture too). about Brown… what kinds of things did you like about the place?
Nothing specific to the areas of study you’ve identified other than my D has reported great experiences in the humanities courses she’s taken. She mentioned great professors and experiences in a couple of philosophy classes she took (logic and I can’t remember the other one). I meant that I personally love Brown because it seems like a great place for an intellectual kid (which is a good description of my kiddo) and because I love the area on and around campus; and I am fond of Providence and RI as well. My D at Brown reports a lot less about her experiences as compared to her siblings, so I’m still getting to know Brown as a parent. But the overall experience for kid and family has been great. Others, like @blossom , can speak to Brown’s place in the humanities better than I. It is, of course, much bigger than the LACs you are considering - 3x the size of the largest (Wesleyan).
It seems you have intentionally called attention to an often immaterial distinction. Kenyon is, of course, commonly recognized for its creative writing program:
I speak from first hand experience, my daughter was an English major with a creative writing concentration at Kenyon.
. I can say now that the college admissions process has gotten less intimidating for me.