Multiple LAC acceptances wouldn’t offer you additional utility if you ultimately would choose Middlebury. The relevant question, then, appears to pertain to whether you have researched potential choices sufficiently thoroughly to be certain of your preference for Middlebury.
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The OP is a very strong candidate for admission to the most selective schools in the country. Excellent likelihood that OP will be admitted ED to Cornell.
OP: Have you visited Cornell ?
Other than Cornell, I think that OP is aiming too low for his area of interest.
Before you ED, are there cost issues / concerns - or alternatively, if you’re full pay but U of A (right now) would be $9K or so tuition, would your parents prefer you to attend there vs. $60K a year?
If the answer to both is no, who cares if you forgo LAC acceptances at the expense of Midd if it’s truly your favorite - outside of Cornell.
It’s awesome to say - I got in here or there.
At the same time, you’re only going to one - that’s it.
And if you have 10 more applying to RD vs. 9 more - the only difference would be - now you have 10 RD (all or most who will prefer ED) instead of 9…
Go for ED - if and only if your parents can afford it and want to afford it (vs. UA or Montana State).
Good luck.
PS - I’d be more concerned about curricula as your desire is somewhat narrow - and some “lower ranked” schools might fit better - and I pointed out a few above - as some LACs have public health and perhaps that can be doubled with your ES major, etc. so I would check curricula moreso than names…
The ED deadline for Cornell was 11/1 so assuming this poster is a senior, they’ve already applied.
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ED agreements can be withdrawn at anytime prior to a formal admissions decision for that particular student.
For example, if one applied ED to a top 10 university but was subsequently awarded a substantial scholarship to a rolling admissions university prior to release of ED decisions, the applicant may wish to withdraw the potentially binding ED supplement to the first university.
I’m aware of the ED rules. The poster I responded to started with “before you apply ED” and I was pointing out that the student already submitted.
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Really? I think he has a wonderful profile but fail to see how that gives him (as an unhooked student) an excellent chance of being admitted to Cornell. Not because he is lacking in any way but because the acceptance rates are so miniscule.
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Yes but for ED2 i’m saying - and Midd.
But yes once he’s into Cornell - then it’s game over.
And of course, he won’t see any other schools he got into!!!
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I think your plan is very solid, and actually in many ways resembles the plan my S24 has put together. If he is not accepted to his REA, he will also have to decide whether he does an ED II. If he still has a clear favorite at that point I will definitely support that, but I also think it will be fine if he doesn’t, since I think more likely than not he will get some good choices out of RD anyway.
So my only advice is to make sure whatever you do is for your reasons, and do not get sucked into the mindset that you have to maximize your odds of getting into one of your most selective colleges by choosing somewhere to ED II. You can if you would like because you really have a favorite, but you don’t have to.
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Yes. The OP has an outstanding class rank, a perfect GPA, great AP scores, and a clear interest supported by his ECs while adding geographic diversity.
Somewhat surprised that he plans to apply to only one elite National University based on his academic area of interest.
I mean, the OP is also applying to a top 2ish LAC (I am talking here according to “elite” academic-based reputational factors), and a couple more top 5-10ish.
I personally think it is smart to resist the type of thinking that suggests more selective/elite = better to begin with. But particularly for a person who seems to like LACs, I’d say that is plenty of “elite” schools (four including Cornell).
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Would love to read more about why OP selected the schools on his list. I understand Arizona and Colorado as safeties within his geographic region and I understand Cornell for his area of interest, but I am curious about the LACs and OP’s statement regarding results of students from his high school; is the bias toward LACs his own or the preference of his school college counselor ?
And why isn’t Duke University on his list in light of the student’s interest & qualifications ? Duke offers a combined BA/MA program and depth & breadth in his preferred area that no LAC can or does match.
Sure, Duke’s program is great, but maybe OP didn’t like that vibe. Personally, I’d be thinking anyone who had Oberlin and Duke on the same list had not really thought through what environment they wanted. Otoh, maybe they will go back and look at it.
The OP asked to be chanced, not a critique of their list.
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Not true. OP specifically asked about other match schools and about the other LACs on his list.
Agree that Oberlin is an oddity in light of the other schools on his list.
Maybe OP was unaware of Duke’s extensive, outstanding offerings in his area of interest.
You’re in great shape mountain1! You seem to understand that this is a very tricky process and you have cast a solid, wide net. If you would be thrilled to get into Middlebury (only upon receiving a rejection form Cornell) then go for EDII. I would also say that if you do choose to EDII, take that commitment seriously. While it is not a legally binding contract, it is one that you are expected to sign with honesty and integrity. Good luck to you!!
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Well, the OP sounds a lot like my S24, and what we found is there are a gazillion colleges that COULD be on his list. Which is great to start, but then you don’t need to apply to all those, you can just apply to a reasonable selection of favorites.
By the way, I note my S24 also applied to St Andrews, and looked at McGill. This is yet another entirely different way of approaching undergrad than just going down the US News National Universities list, and I think for the right person having that sort of experience could be fantastic.
So we can quiz the OP about every single highly-ranked US private research university they could apply to, and are not–but why? As long as they have a nice full list of colleges they actively like, that seems fine to me.
Again, maybe it is because my S24 seems to have been on a broadly similar path, but I don’t find that odd at all.
If you like LACs, and are reasonably broad-minded, you will likely quickly learn there are some great LACs in the Great Lakes/Midwest that have somewhat higher acceptance rates than their Coastal peers (peers in an academic sense).
So Oberlin, roughly speaking, is an academic peer of colleges like Bates and Colby, but it has a higher acceptance rate. And while hopefully the OP gets admitted to one or more of their three most selective LACs (Amherst, Middlebury, and Bowdoin), adding both Oberlin and Colby as alternatives seems prudential to me.
And I know that Oberlin is not an arbitrary choice, they are actually quite strong specifically in Global Health, which is one of ten of what they call “integrative concentrations”:
So to me, Oberlin is a very natural choice for an applicant with this sort of academic interest and also an interest in LACs.
So this is a truism about research universities versus LACs, and yet many students rationally choose LACs. At a high level, they are giving up that depth and breadth in exchange for small classes, close professor relationships, very personalized placement support, and so on.
Of course it is no wonder that many people who choose LACs plan to go on to graduate or professional school, because that is when they can then get the remainder of what universities offer.
Which is not to say other people are wrong to prefer going to a research university right away. But, it is a trade off, there is not one objectively dominant answer as to the best path through post-secondary education.
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Thank you for responding. I do understand all of your points although small classes, close relationships with professors,and mentoring is present at many elite private National Universities and in Honors Colleges at large public universities.
National Universities typically offer greater breadth & depth of subject areas and a wide variety of research opportunities not found at LACs.
Sure, but usually only in a limited selection of courses. At least at mid-sized private research universities, usually the upper level courses in most majors start getting pretty small, but even then some of the most popular ones stay bigger. At larger publics, there is a wide variety of what honors programs even mean, and some do not actually have special honors classes, and in others there is a very limited selection.
This is not a completely universal rule, but in most such cases at least for your first couple years you will have quite a few larger lecture classes, with sections led by graduate students. Indeed, teaching assignments are often an important source of funding for graduate students, so departments have to make sure a lot of students are taking classes where graduate students will have such opportunities.
Part of the appeal of a SLAC is that your small/intimate class experiences will be much more universal. Meaning from the very beginning, you will likely be taking small classes with the top professors in your department. Large lectures are very rare, and while sometimes there are TAs, they can be upper class students, which can be an opportunity for you down the road.
And then there are all the other things a small department can get you, like again very personalized placement support.
Research is another area where it is more a question of tradeoffs than dominance.
Again, it is quite true that the much larger departments at a larger research university will typically have a wider variety of research being conducted. But, the next question is who is actually doing that research.
Because at least at the better LACs, their professors are also doing research, and they also need help. But if there are no graduate students, they need to get that help from undergraduates. So, undergraduates at these LACs can end up doing research that would normally be done by PhD students and such at a research university.
Anyway, it sounds like you are not particularly sold on the LAC approach to these issues. But surely you are aware that LACs have their fans anyway. Indeed, many LACs–including Oberlin–have really high per capita feeder rates to PhD programs.
So, many of the people who choose LACs for undergrad are in fact interested in things like advanced academic classes and advanced research, and yet still think an LAC is a good way to go.
In fact, I just looked it up for fun, and Oberlin has a higher per capita feeder rate to Biological Sciences PhD programs than Duke (#11 versus #30):
Oberlin is particularly strong in that area, but they also beat Duke on the total per capita list–#15 to #35.
So if the OP ends up choosing to start off on such a path at an LAC, they would have quite a bit of company at Oberlin. But of course at Duke too, and I would agree this is actually as much or more about self-selection as value-added.
Still, my point is just that people with high academic/research ambitions do not always choose to start with research universities. And it is demonstrably working out well for many of them, which is likely part of why more then do it again.
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Again, thank you for your response.
There are differences and there are similarities between private National Universities and LACs and public flagship honors colleges.
My focus is on why OP is applying to the schools which are on his list.
(FWIW I have been involved in this area for over 30 years now and I have degrees from both an LAC and National University.)
Edit: deleted to comply with request.
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