Chance me for ED II in computer science ;)

I really like Emory, and I want to do computer science and pre-law and maybe pre-med. Computer science at Emory would be possible to get the GPA necessary for those (which is why I do not care for Tech).

Basic:
*White male from Texas
*GPA: 3.7/4.2 (UW/W)
*Rank: 8/440
*ACT: 31 (E 33 M 30 R 28 S 32)

EC’S:
*Cross Country - Varsity 4 years - State Qualifier, District Champion, Regional Qualifier
*Track - Varsity 2 years
*Texas Boys State
*Black belt in Tae Kwondo 4 years
*JROTC - 1 year
*United States Academic Decathlon - 1 years
*Worked at golf course - 8 weeks and 30 hours a week
*Volunteered in the Houston flood relief for a month ~300 hours
*Cycling 4 years
*Programming 1 year

Awards:
*National Honor Society
*AP Scholar

Recommendations:
*Generic, generic, generic.

Essays:
Very unique but not the best.

I am in a gap year right now, volunteered and worked so far. Once I finish apps I am going to backpack Europe (not using in application, doing it for experience). Responses appreciated

I think you have a strong application to Emory and close to the average gpa for admitted first years (3.75) and pretty good ACT score(majority of accepted applicants have btw. 30-36). Good Luck!

@cappex Huh?! I think Emory for pre-law is just better than Tech because of the majors and things offered for someone doing that route. Also, CS is not a notorious grader at Tech…and most of the pre-med core science courses and supplemental science courses other than say physics (and of course calc. I guess) are generally tougher at Emory both content wise and grading wise (general chemistry and biology over there are actually noticeably easier and ochem with someone decent instructors at Emory…no contest. Most upperlevel biol courses at Emory are also less memorization intensive than theirs and yield similar grading patterns because they focus more on problem solving, data analysis and don’t have as much multiple choice). The only way Tech is significantly harder than Emory for pre-health is if you do engineering over there or just intend to take only easy instructors at Emory which will likely waste your money and lower your MCAT score. I recommend you seriously think this through and avoid jumping to conclusions.

As for chances, they are ok…but far from shoe in, especially RD. Chances for Tech may actually be lower since you mentioned them (Tech is WAY more stats sensitive since going to common app).

@bernie12 I won’t even apply for Tech, UT is better and i am in state if i want to go that route. I know I am not a shoe-in at Emory, but I am applying ED II, and I assume the 33+ers are using Emory as a safety for ivies and are applying RD for Biology or other pre-med majors, not CS.

@cappex. A 33 for Ivies…no, many 33ers aren’t using Emory as a safety. Wrong Again. Maybe 34-36, but not 33. 33 is nothing special for the Ivies, and is not even top quartile for an Emory admit. They would have a better chance of getting in than maybe a 30, but not good enough for considering Emory a safter. 30-33 at Most schools is the “somewhat random” range. If a school is stats sensitive, like WashU, Vandy, Chicago, MIT, HYP…then a 34+ may help more substantially than elsewhere (especially if the 34+ is not with extraordinary EC’s) and HYP, and MIT (all 4 tend to target students with both very high scores and extraordinary or focused EC’s. Others indeed have high scores, but are not as score focused and care more about EC’s and “character” and so are more likely to randomly deny many with 33+ who may have indeed thought it was a safety…but the idea of hardly anyone using a top 25 as a safety is interesting as it assumes that you “fit” merely for having amazing scores…)

@bernie12 Well Transcript is the most important followed by test scores, so clearly if those are on par with top 25 schools then it counts as a fit. Even if the individual had basically no EC’s and crap essays (which isn’t common considering they are motivated), the schools are likely to overlook that because they are focused on improving their college ranking.

Huh? I’m confused. No…that’s not what I was getting at and it is nowhere near that simple. Only some schools currently function like that, but most don’t (most would certainly like to improve their rank but don’t use admissions as much. If that was the case then every school would have a 1500 SAT average which isn’t the case, even among the most prestigious). There are a few schools whose reputation is much lower than their score range (these are the ones you maybe unintentionally speak of) and many others (in fact most) whose reputations are amazing and yet have lower ranges than the schools I allude to…get where I’m going? Places like Duke and Stanford for example are NOT using the same scheme as Vandy and WashU. They are happy with their scores within a certain range (don’t necessarily try to increase them each year) and mainly once that threshold is achieved, they clearly start looking at other things. Those schools are not silly or trying to pump up their rank at this point because their reputations in education and research have been cemented (as have many other elites a tad below them) so they have much more “liberty” in admissions (they don’t need to worry about their rank as much so as long as it doesn’t drop precipitously which is basically impossible with the current metrics).

They know they are set because they are ranked higher than schools with higher stats…). No need to take a dull/typical high achievers/scorers in every(or even most) cases (they are getting much like Harvard where they can just deny most perfect scorers) when they don’t have to. Their scheme has worked in getting them the prize (post-grad) winning students that the other two just don’t have anywhere near as many of. The idea is that once someone is in the or near middle-50 of the previous year’s class (and I am not even talking admits…I mean enrollees which is lower than admits…anyone in either range will be taken seriously) at most schools, the EC’s (more so depth and type than abundance) and essays are so obviously the deciding factor (Stanford makes its essays about creativity and innovation for example). Rarer schools like the ones I mentioned are I suppose trying to support their rank, but the success is so limited (like a spot or 2) because the outputs (like graduation rate) don’t change that much as they were already high (WashU just dropped some because of the shuffling and Vanderbilt would not have moved up if it wasn’t for the shuffling from things like ties being broken or made). The only thing that can change is selectivity which doesn’t count that much(though low acceptance rates can aid in yield control).

Even Emory, for example, has more national prize winners than some of such schools even after they started to dramatically pump up their scores…However, overall Emory is an oddball out in that it isn’t taking the opportunity to pump up its scores to the level of peers yet even though it could (and maybe should have) have started last year. It seems to be taking the Duke/Stanford (or insert JHU or whoever else) approach with its current score levels which is strange, but it doesn’t seem to be hurting it outside of USNWR category. Admittedly, if Emory played the “pump up the scores” game for a short while, it would likely return to the top 20…however, that would kind of ruin the “class-shaping” going on where they seem to be trying to get less pre-professionals and more humanities majors (along with more students that would go on to major in and support newer departments like quantitative social science) and those (URM or not) on the lower SE spectrum (I believe Stanford does this to some degree as well, much more so than its ultra high scoring peers MHYP). Even when accounting for the misreporting, Emory’s scores at one point were actually a little higher, but the class was more homogeneous academically which I guess they don’t want as much anymore. Many pre-healths for example, would be on the higher scoring spectrum of it all (often science majors have higher scores).

Basically most schools are in the following mode: “36 does not make me say wow unless it comes with X,Y, and Z”. They are not that desperate to pull someone with a 36 that is relatively dull. They will leave that to the state school fellowship and honors programs which use score cutoffs…or a school that is never comfortable with its already ridiculously high score range. Most of these places are pretty far along when it comes to class-shaping and institutional development and are thus past the stage where a perfect score looks more shiny than a high substance candidate with a middle 50 (or slightly below) score.

@bernie12 That all makes sense and is evident, but then it begs the question of what makes a candidate "dull’ and another “high substance?” How much can a 500 bundle of words compare to 4 years of work? I suppose that is where EC’s step up to the plate, but what makes one EC more “high substance” or “valuable” than another? Awards? Hours? Rarity? The only true way to have a standardized comparison is test scores.
And it has been well known that Vandy, Wash U, etc. game the system, but what if a student truly likes those schools, yet their scores are slightly under the 50% for admitted? (Not sure where to find the scores of enrolled). Should they just accept that no matter how “high substance” they are that they simply do not stand a chance due to these schools’ priorities and not apply?

@cappex : Mostly its awards or “depth” (with respect to the schools strength or current direction which is the hard part to investigate)…for example if I am applying to HYP (or any other very STEM heavy school) as a science major…for better or worse, a person who placed well at say ICO or IMO will likely be more impressive than a person who won a state science fair (same could be said for a good performance at Seimens) and may certainly be more appreciated than the pre-health with butt-loads of volunteer hours and I guess what one considers “stereotypical” leadership positions. I think the value of a resume or sheet loaded with EC’s has kind of declined especially in the “leadership” department because many schools have caught on to the fact that many students may “found” organizations so as to claim that they were a leader but in reality the org. may not have been very active or active at all (as in, to adcoms, it is beginning to look like people are inventing things just for college admissions and not for themselves or to serve others). Many schools seem to like those who were clearly passionate about a few (say 2-3) areas and pursued as much as possible or to the best of their ability…and of course rareness plays a role. Don’t ever believe that places like HYPMS just expect geniuses or special students to automatically apply with enthusiasm or at all.

They essentially find way of recruiting and then accommadating those types of students. You can tell that those level schools value the students who have pursued an ijnterest, especially an academic one, really aggressively simply by looking at the offerings many departments have for freshmen. You could, for example, take what is equivalent to a graduate level physics, math, or math course at those places and it is specifically for first years (or those entering the department with amazing backgrounds). You don’t “attract” enough people to be able to offer those courses if you don’t actually desire those types. Schools that offer that level of an honors course over many departments clearly value academically or intellectually oriented students. The idea overall is that they all don’t just want the same thing in students, high scores and lots of EC’s. The schools have very different environments due to the recruitment schemes and how the academic offerings support the students usually recruited to such schools.

To figure out what an individual school wants or tends to like (as in something that will give one an edge) beyond you being in or near the interquartile, a lot of investigation must be done to see if you’re actually a fit and it involves visiting ideally and cruising around on the school’s website (admissions or student news publications or the schools’ newsreels) to get a feel of the direction the school is going (if any-for example, if a school is still in “pump up SAT score” phase, then you may see many recent articles over the past 2-5 years that constantly tout selectivity metrics and how they are changing). You do it both for you AND for sake of strategy.

To me, at Emory, the shift toward desire for more academic (and SE) diversity, and intellectually or artistically inclined students is rather obvious. The faculty and administration wanted (I mean the new Quality Enhancement Plan is something as specific as the “Nature of Evidence” whereas most schools just choose something vague that basically requires them to do nothing more than what they have been doing to "implement) it and the adcoms are at least trying to oblige despite impediments like the schools traditional pre-professional draw. Other evidence involves things like the Voluntary Core (created by faculty members concerned about engagement with the liberal arts) curriculum, revamping of certain science curricula (namely chemistry), return or creation of certain honors courses (like a freshman only comparative politics course or an honors linear algebra sequence that gains students credit for 3 intermediate/advanced math courses), and also the willingness to give more and successfully recruit more Emory scholars.

It is also focused on lower SE folks as indicated by articles that discuss how we have a ridiculous amount of QB scholars.

You’ll also notice things like how the admissions folks (via their website for example) are attempting to sell things like the arts to students and that when you go on a tour, they try to actually take you through academic buildings (such as chemistry) to not only show off how shiny it is, but show off how something is taught differently.

The school wouldn’t sell these things so hard if it wasn’t interested in getting more students interested in them as opposed to merely getting higher scoring students with lengthy resumes of mostly non-academic passions. The creative writing and English Department was being pushed heavily (and it actually is amazing). I wouldn’t be surprised if QSS wasn’t next.

Either, you just have to gauge the school, what it seems to be pushing from its admissions office and what is currently going on at the school. And if you visit, you can maybe get an overall feel. Also, don’t get me wrong, it isn’t that these places don’t take cookie cutter type high achievers, because of course they do, but the reality is those people won’t stand out in a pile of similar applicants and someone who fits the direction of the school and its goals will probably fare better. If you are more stereotypical, a lot of luck will be involved, interquartile or not. A year or two ago me and several posters were VERY surprised at the results for Emory with high scorers who fit the standard profile EC wise(as in very solid laundry list of things) and academically (pre-bus, pre-med, pre-law and in popular majors like polisci for example) were not offered even a waitlist. It was very surprising(but unfortunately not uncommon). The people who seemed a little different, offered something less “stereotypical” seemed to get in even with lower scores (did not matter if they were URM or even Asian).

Anyone else have an opinion?

@cappex Having read over your outline of credentials, I would suggest/recommend the following:

  1. Try to upgrade your math based standardized tests scores. Retake the ACT to get a better math score (and science score too, if possible). Take the SAT II in Math I or Math II and try to get at least a 750 (ideally an 800).
  2. Work on a computer programming related project of your own design. This might mean creating an app for the Apple store, putting together a website for someone, or something more high powered.
  3. Can you sell yourself as someone who can play varsity sports for Emory? Keep in mind that Emory is Division III.
  4. Apply to both Oxford College and Emory College. Oxford College is slightly less selective based on test scores than Emory College.
  5. Both Emory College and Oxford College (2 different undergraduate campuses that will give you an Emory diploma after 4 years) pride themselves on being liberal arts schools. Accordingly, the relatively low reading score on the ACT could bear improvement. You will do a lot of reading and writing at any highly selective school.
  6. Are you taking AP Calculus, AP Statistics, AP Physics or other quant based curriculum?

I have heard that candidates that have standardized test scores that fall below the 75% and are unhooked (not legacy, athletes or URM) are at the mercy of admissions’ committees.

Bolstering the math credentials will be important given your intended major. Likewise boosting your ACT by as little 2 points overall should help a lot too.

@MyOdyssey Thank you so much for the strong advice :slight_smile:

  1. I am retaking ACT in december, I am taking 20 practice tests and reviewing heavily!
  2. I will try :slight_smile:
  3. Yes! My times are fast enough that I would be in the middle of the pack now!
  4. Meh, everyone wants to transfer out of oxford, and I feel if I apply there then they will think “Oh, well he applied here so lets just accepted him to oxford and not emory” Meaning I think it may reduce my chances, correct me if I am wrong!
  5. I read slow, but I read IN DEPTH. I will try and improve to a 32 on reading dec. Any tips on how? (I will try to read the questions first and play where’s waldo)
  6. No, I already graduated…
    Thank you so much for the personalized and in depth help! If I can help you I will as well :slight_smile:

Hi @cappex! You have gotten some great feedback. I have read one of your other posts with a CS question. Here are a couple of thoughts. 1) Have you considered CAL Berkeley? They offer CS in their Arts and Letters (?) school in addition to their engineering school. They love admitted Out of State students as well. They are renowned in CS as well as pre-law. Totally different feel than Emory or the 5Cs, but if you can overlook the class sizes, they offer an excellent education. 2) Run (pun intended) with @MyOdyssey 's suggestion. Reach out to Division III X Country coaches. It may actually be too late, but worth a shot to get on their radar (if you are willing and able to run in school).
3) Google CS programs. They are all over the map. Almost all great schools offer them. They can be very nuanced. Maybe ask someone who is CS grad what they would recommend taking, and then pretend to chart out a course of study. You will begin to find schools that feel like they fit (or don’t). 3)I think your GAP year is really interested. You will gain maturity and wisdom. Don’t undersell it. 4) Show your passion. You have obviously worked hard in HS. Show the Admissions reader at the top schools of your choice that you are really interested. 5) Glad you are retaking the test. Your grades and test scores are solid, it is just that if you will improve your odds somewhat with higher test scores.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
PS The CAL application closes early so if you are interested, you need to apply this month.

@Calliemom Thanks for feedback! :slight_smile:
No, I hate Berkeley, plus I hate OOS tuition even more! I need a private school education with general ed requirements to pad my GPA for law school. I am not that good at math:P
How do I reach out to the coaches, and what should i say? Will that possibly allow me to be recruited? I reached out to WUSTL coach and all he really said was keep me updated on your times -_-
I have worked and volunteered, but honestly the gap year is depressing, boring, and VERY lonely :frowning: I may backpack Europe or U.S. (Visit the schools I get accepted to if i dont get in Emory or WUSTL ED). after I finish application process.
How do I show my interest without Supplemental essays that ask that?
To study is just taking tons of practice released tests on crackact the best method? And reviewing what i got wrong and why?

@cappex You should check this past year’s admitted students’ threads to see the stats for admittees to Emory College and Oxford College. These threads should also tell you whether students are admitted to both Oxford College and Emory College or one or the other. Each college has its own admissions office. I don’t know whether they collaborate. I seem to recall from these threads that students often are admitted to both colleges.

I’m not sure what you mean when you say students want to transfer out of Oxford College. ALL students from Oxford College move on to Emory College after two years. It is by design. Oxford emphasizes small class sizes (typically 25 per class even for introductory science and math classes, hands on teaching and a close knit community).

It’s probably been 2 years since you took precalculus and more than that since you took algebra I, algebra II and geometry. These are the subjects that are tested on ACT math an SAT II math. If your practice tests show that you’re rusty on these subjects, take the time to review your weak areas.

Here’s the link to Emory College’s recruit form for applicants interested in representing Emory in intercollegiate track and field:
http://www.emoryathletics.com/sports/mtrack/recruitForm

Here’s a link to Emory College’s track and field coaches:
http://www.emoryathletics.com/sports/mtrack/coaches/index

Here’s the link to Oxford College’s track and field page:
http://oxford.emory.edu/athletics/teams/mens-cross-country/coaches/

Here’s the link to Oxford College’s recruit questionnaire:
http://oxford.emory.edu/athletics/prospective-athlete-questionnaires/

For a small campus, Oxford actually does quite well in Division III athletics. Last year’s men’s tennis team finished number one in the country: http://oxford.emory.edu/news/oxford-men-are-national-tennis-champions/

Finally, don’t forget that the University of Texas’s application deadline is the end of November and that they don’t use the common app.

@cappex As far as computer programming projects are concerned, you might consider donating your time (and learning some programming) to some open source software projects:

http://opensource.com/resources/projects-and-applications

If you haven’t already, you might consider learning an object oriented programming language. Some of the current popular ones include Python, C++ and Java, which can help you with your open source work if you choose to go in that direction.

I know Apple just introduced a new programming language (“Swift”) to be used on their apps going forward.
https://developer.apple.com/swift/

Oxford and Emory apparently collaborate…

@bernie12 How do Oxford and Emory admissions collaborate?

I will try to dig it up but I think it was explained or mentioned very briefly in an old emory magazine article.

@MyOdyssey ddyseyhttp://news.emory.edu/stories/2014/09/eroxfordjennietaylorretires/campus.html

Here is one of the few places I saw it alluded to…It has been a recruitment strategy happening for a while. I’m willing to bet that main campus admissions officers have some influence over Oxford admissions decisions right? I truly doubt that Oxford has large enough staff to deal with the heavy application volume alone (seriously, a school that small handling around 10k or more apps on its own? This isn’t the big time rich LAC’s we’re talking here).