Chance me for MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Caltech

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Demographics
Male, Asian & White, Public School, NJ, Middle Class

Intended Major(s)
Math

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
SAT/SAT II: 1570 (800M 770RW), 800 on Math II

W GPA: 4.804, No Unweighted GPA, No Rank

AP Tests: Taken Already: Physics 1 and APUSH, both 5s
This Year: Calc BC, Physics Mech, Physics E&M, Chem, Lit

Coursework
Freshman: H Algebra 2, H Bio, H US History, H English 9, Chinese 3, Orch, Gym
Sophomore: H Precalc, AP Phys 1, H Chem, APUSH, H English 10, H Chinese 4, Orch, Gym
Junior (current): AP Phys C, AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP Lit, AP Chinese, H Orch, Gym
Senior (next year): Multivariable, AP Stats, AP CSA, AP Lang, AP World, H Orch, Gym

Awards
USAMO Qualifier
ISEF Finalist (Participated 2020, ISEF only a gallery, no competition)
Many awards at local level Science Fair
DHR AMC 12
USAMTS Silver Medal (Hopefully Gold This Year)

I have other fairly basic awards to fill space in the application.

Extracurriculars

  1. Independent Research Project: Soccer Analytics Researcher (Got me to ISEF)
  2. Research Project: Sum Edge Coloring (SEC) Researcher Worked with Mentor on the complexity of SEC. Proved SEC on multitrees efficiently solvable, constructed direct NP-hardness reduction of SEC on bipartite graphs. Conducted experiments.
  3. Principal Cellist, New Jersey Youth Symphony (NJYS)
  4. NJ All-State and Regionals Orchestra Cellist
  5. Paterson Music Project Volunteer Taught underprivileged cello students, create inventory records of instruments for the Paterson MusicProject. Create solo performance videos for nursing homes during Covid-19
  6. High School Soccer Represented school at all levels from the freshman team to Varsity
  7. Research Club President Standard Club Stuff
  8. Math Honors Society President Standard Club Stuff
  9. Power the People Project (Online) Expand electrical access in sub-Saharan Africa. Identified rural homes in Kenya. Ugandan satellite images to train computer vision algorithms to automatically extract home locations

Essays/LORs/Other
Essays will def represent me as a person. Plan to use the majority of summer to work on them. Assume my essays mostly range from 7-8/10 range.

LOR from Calc and Chem teacher will be good. I would imagine they will be a bit higher than the classic “higher end of average”. English Teacher letter I imagine will be quite standard.

Schools
Mainly asking about chances for reach schools such as MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Princeton.

Thank you for reading :slight_smile:

EDIT: Money will not be an issue, so do not consider that as a factor.

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Male, Asian & White, Public School, NJ, Middle Class

Well - these schools already have ridiculously low acceptance rates so it’s a far reach. You are FANTASTIC - but so are the thousands applying there.

And you lack diversity - because everyone applying there is Asian.

If you were a black female, you’d be a long shot. As an Asian or white male, you’re really a long shot.

But again, you are incredible. Albert Einstein is a long shot at any of these schools.

Great reaches - your targets should be a Rochester, Case Western level and your safeties a Rutgers or if it’s too big a mid size solid state school (Rowan) or one where you can get fantastic merit - such as Missouri S&T - which you are way above - but if you want that size.

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Apply and see. With 5% or so acceptance rates, you can figure out the odds yourself. 95% or so are rejected…and in that group are some very well qualified applicants.

So…you have a great set of stats….apply and see.

Are these colleges affordable?

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This will turn some heads at MIT and Caltech. Make sure you think they’ll fit. They don’t for everyone. Good luck.

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You should be able to figure out your unweighted GPA. If you have only had A’s (guessing from your unweighted GPA), then it is 4.0.

Did you just finish your junior year of high school, and will you be starting your senior year in September (or late August)?

Are your parents okay with being full pay, or have you run the NPC and are you and your parents okay with the results? Do not trust your parents saying “cost does not matter” unless they understand that this means “more than $300,000”. “Middle class” is sometimes (depending upon details) the people who get squeezed out by the cost at top schools.

Are you fine with working very hard for four full years without a letup, and are you fine with suddenly becoming an average student they day that you show up on campus? I am going to guess “yes” based on how very well you have done up to now.

Being Asian and White will not help you. Being male will not help you.

MIT at one point said that 85% of their applicants are academically fully qualified to attend. Stanford at a different point said 80%. You are clearly in this 80-85%. You do know however what percentage of academically fully qualified students are accepted and what percentage are turned down at these schools.

I do not think that your chances are much different than the overall acceptance rate at each school, and your chances are probably slightly lower. Many slots will be taken up at each school by URM applicants. Many more at Stanford and Princeton by athletes. Stanford will consider legacy status. MIT will not (as an MIT alumni I am very happy about this – I believe that legacy should not be considered for admission at a university that is this academically challenging). I am not sure about the other two.

Regardless I think that you are an excellent student and you will do well wherever you attend university. I have seen students who were as strong as you from NJ who attended Rutgers and did VERY well both in university and in careers after graduating from Rutgers.

You definitely need to apply to safeties. However, these four top universities are IMHO worth an application.

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Or TCNJ.

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  • 1 B+ in freshman year in English
  • Money will not be an issue
  • Finishing Junior Year in mid-June. Senior Year Starting end of August.
  • Will def apply to safeties, was just curious about chances at the top of the line schools

Thanks for all the feedback!

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Unless your family is little yacht to get to my big yacht rich, money should ALWAYS factor into the calculation. Why? Because there’s opportunity cost for the money you save by choosing a less expensive option. Let’s say Rutgers is $200k less than MIT, a very possible scenario. If you invest that at historic market returns, you’d have almost $3M at age 62. That’s how much MORE you’d have to make just to break even if you choose any full pay, $300K school. You will not make that much more.

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Let me rephrase. I understand money will never not be an issue. However, my parents have put aside a separate bank account for my college funds since I was very young simply so money would not be a hindrance to my decision over which college to attend. Obviously, paying less is ideal, but my point is that I would like to initially increase the likelihood I would even have the opportunity to attend a top school such as MIT, and then consider money as a factor once my possible colleges have been narrowed down further.

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What doe attending a “top school” get you? Most assume they’ll be much more successful and make lots more money if they do, but engineering and CS are VERY egalitarian. @DadTwoGirls would certainly sing the praises of of MIT and I’m sure is a proud wearer of the brass rat. He’d also acknowledge that there are many that he’s worked with that went to less prestigious institutions that are very good at their jobs. What you do determines how much you’ll make and whether you’ll advance. That’s largely determined by your drive, curiosity and work ethic.

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I’m sure there are many people that go to less prestigious universities that perform extremely well at their job. Attending a “top school” simply allows for more opportunities and makes it easier to get said jobs. It is impossible to deny that these “top schools” have names that carry a certain weight in today’s society.

Anyways, I’ve seen this exact dispute many times online, and it has nothing to do with the intention of my original post. I don’t feel the need to participate any further in such an argument.

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The former is not necessarily true, but the latter is. Several who went to MIT post regularly on this thread and would be the first to confirm that.

I’m not arguing for one or the other. I’m simply pointing out that there is an opportunity cost. If you invested the difference and then decided to be a barista for 40 years, you’d have $3M AFTER INFLATION.

My son had the opportunity you are looking at but for graduate school. He passed on Stanford and stayed at his state school for a terminal MS, because that money math made no sense. He landed an awesome job, gets paid a bunch, and didn’t choose the prestigious name. It was a smart move. He’s $200k (saved tuition plus an extra year of income) ahead right out of the gate for having made that choice.

An ad hominem response is not needed. In fact, no response is needed. I think you get the point. It’s up to you to do as you want with the information.

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Your confirmation bias is overwhelming. Instead of having a “good job”, maybe your son could have started a firm with a classmate that would have made him a billionaire…doing something he loves more than his job. We’ll never know what your son passed up, but if money were no object, I’d bet on the OP’s path at any of the schools listed (with Princeton being the last on my list and closest to a flagship).

@imimaginary - I think your assumptions are valid. Is there any chance you could play soccer in school (especially Caltech or MIT)?

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Your grossly incorrect assumption is that I would make such a statement based an n of 1. I do indeed know better. It was an illustration, no more. One need look no further than Dale and Krueger in 2002 and the subsequent studies to know what I say is true.

Don’t buy that? Take the advice of a patient who worked for JPL, taught at Caltech, had a dual PhD in Math and Physics, and managed one of the biggest NASA projects of all time. He directly said “It doesn’t matter where engineers go to college. Trust me, I’ve been able to hire the best and brightest and there is no correlation to where they went to undergrad.”

As for my son, considering he was the first new grad hired by a company started by deeply seasoned industry insiders and featured in Wired, Fastcompany, and Financial Times after he joined, I think he’s doing OK.

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Getting back to the intent of the post. OP, I have some experience with applications to each of the reach schools you’ve mentioned and my own kid has been accepted to two of them in the last cycle.

Please ignore anyone who says that your odds are no greater than the average applicant (so, 4% at Princeton, e.g.).

That being said, even with a stellar record, as an Asian male with a generalized STEM focus, you will find that each of these will be a high reach.

I recommend applying early to MIT (and possibly Caltech as well if that is of interest). USAMO qualification and AMC12 DHR on top of your overall strong profile will count for something there. Your odds are what they are - no one can tell you for certain without knowing a whole lot more about you, your application, and the actual competition at the time of application. But kids with your profile in my very subjective experience are admitted on average to MIT at a rate of about 25-50%. There are only going to be about 250 domestic USAMO qualifiers applying in any given cycle, but unfortunately for your application about 150-175 of those are Asian males (girls are generally less than 20% of USAMO qualifiers). My very rough guess is that half will apply to MIT.

I do not think your odds of getting into Princeton or Stanford are great enough that I would forego the early option at MIT by going SCEA at Princeton or REA at Stanford, even though MIT says there is no advantage to applying early and there certainly is some advantage early at the others, though I suspect that advantage is not large for an unhooked Asian male.

Overall, obviously your record is extremely strong. The only thing that struck me from your description is that you don’t seem to have done any formal advanced math. Yet you obviously have interest in the subject besides just the competition aspect (USAMTS and graph theory research, for instance). I would guess that the vast majority of USAMO level kids applying to MIT will have gone through multivariable calc and linear algebra prior to applying. Perhaps keep in the back of your mind as you are writing the MIT essays to highlight any depth of study in topics outside the standard curriculum. Obviously, highlight the graph theory research, don’t be shy about describing the mathematical aspects of your ISEF project. Plenty of kids focus on the competitions, and you have solid credentials there, but how can you show the passion for the subject? You could turn your math course progression into a positive here by showing your extracurricular pursuits of the subject.

Good luck, and congratulations on that stellar record.

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Your conflating HIS ability to hire with others ability to GET hired. Machines do a lot of first review now on hiring. Just for yucks…where did your patient go to college / grad school?

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Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others."

and

“College Confidential forums exist to discuss college admission and other topics of interest. It is not a place for contentious debate. If you find yourself repeating talking points, it might be time to step away and do something else. Some topics, such as politics, religion and moderation on the forums, lend themselves to debate. If a thread starts to get heated, it might be closed or heavily moderated.”

A chance thread is not the place for off topic sniping. Focus on the OP and their question.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/guidelines

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These are two very different questions. Where one goes to undergrad doesn’t matter much. Where one goes to graduate school if it’s not for a terminal MS does.

Look at the directors of all the NASA facilities. Every one went to state schools for undergrad except one. He went to RPI. Not one went to MIT, Caltech or Stanford.

i think we’re far enough off track that it’s probably best I bow out. :wink:

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[color=orange]Caltech[/color] is a research institution. It is not for everyone and is very specific in whom they select. Based on our personal experience there, it is expensive for a middle class family, even with a 529 account.

Meals are M-F. Cold-cuts in your dorm, on the weekends, which merit a trip to Lake Avenue in Pasadena, for your weekend and holiday meals. That means constant cash out for your meals and Uber delivery because the students want to stay on-campus. Amazon is frequently on campus. Did I mention that Pasadena is very expensive? Most people fly in and out from the Ontario airport, so you need to pay for the expensive shuttles.

Everyone is a National Merit Winner.
Everyone has won a national prize in something.
But it is not for everyone.

It is very small and smaller than most public high schools.

The professors lecture.
They go back to their offices and work on their research.
The grad students create the tests, grade the tests, and submit the grades to the professors. The grad students aren’t great with developing tests.

[color=red]Stanford[/color] is very green and appears to like students who fight for environmental and public causes. Even with three legacy children, admission was not guaranteed, but son had his interviews and instead chose to go to Caltech.

Agree.^

Apply broadly, but know, going in that every one of those American 35K valedictorians, is applying to those schools, every year.

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This is wrong. This person has USAMO, and in my personal knowledge of dozens of USAMO recipients, about 60% get into at least one HYPSM. The “worst outcome” I have seen is that one student who had USAMO, nothing else notable, and was known as “the obnoxious kid” got into CMU CS.

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