<p>sevmom- I am sure you correct. My thinking though is that the other stuff shouldn’t matter very much (at least not in extreme cases of obvious intellect). For example: take a kid who is fantastic at math but shy and wants to major in theoretical physics or something. Why should it matter that they don’t write a good essay or weren’t outgoing in school and didn’t participate in ECs? College shouldn’t just be for the smart who are socially adept and can write extremely well. I think there should be room for the very smart who might lack one or two other skills (like writing well).</p>
<p>It’s not a perfect system, wavelet and TV4caster, I’m sure , and there may be people who embellish things. Hopefully, not many! SAT’s and ACT’s(with extensive and sometimes costly prep) and GPA’s (taking the right courses or sometimes easier courses , some teachers are easier than others,etc.) can certainly be gamed to an extent .</p>
<p>While GPA, SAT and ACT scores are more objective measures, gaming the system does occur. There are instances of cheating that we hear about (Long Island and Landon Prep come to mind) and others that we don’t hear about. What about the fact that some international applicants are hiring firms to create their application packages? Or the fact that the wealthy can afford SAT prep classes that us poorer families cannot? Like sevmom pointed out all high schools and teachers are not the same. Some are more generous with As than others. Face it, college admissions should be holistic because there is no one perfect measure to create an interesting class of students. Admissions officers do their best with the information given. </p>
<p>There will always be people disappointed after admissions decisions are released. That is the way it is when you have 9 times as many applicants as spaces. Part of our learning experience is learning how to deal with disappointment. It is easy play the blame game and scream about the process being unfair. Life is full of situations that seem unfair and wrong to me. The important thing is how you deal with these challenges. If the worst thing that ever happens to you is being waitlisted or denied at a college, count your blessings. I know a family who would give anything to have their child be going to a community college next year. Their extremely intelligent daughter died tragically. Whenever I think about how bad something seems in the moment, I remember that things could be much worse and my problem seems somehow less monumental.</p>
<p>I hope that people frustrated with their admissions decisions and with the decision making process can find some peace and move on.</p>
<p>^^^This times a million. Lets face it, if you are smart and capable, in the grand scheme of things it is not going to matter where you went to college. Intelligent, hard-working people who do things with class and integrity will always find a way to succeed. Life is not always fair (as most of us have realized at one point or another), but it tends to work out for those who exhibit passion, energy, and spirit. You can either let a bad draw eat you up, or you can overcome and go create new opportunities for yourself.</p>
<p>I should also add that I am looking at this objectively and from a philosophical point of view because my daughter has not been denied at any school she applied to, and I think a big part of the reason is that a holistic approach favors her. So, I am not sure if the comments were directed at me that were about people who are supposedly bitter because they don’t think the current method is perfect but, as I said, I have no dog in this fight. I just think things could be improved.</p>
<p>I love everybody here telling me just to shut up and go away. This is a message board right? Normally a message board is for discussion and debate in my experience. Why so hostile? Why this notion that I am somehow doing harm to myself or anybody else?</p>
<p>^^^No one is saying that at all. Ultimately we can’t change your daughter’s decision. So why argue the impossible?</p>
<p>VADAD1: I think this is a great place to express your frustrations. I don’t think you should shut up at all! My husband and I have been following this thread with great interest. My kids are in VA high schools and every year the guidance counselors tell them they should try for UVA - that they have a great chance of getting in. Not true. I wish UVA would spend some time educating the VA high school guidance counselors on their admissions standards because the counselors don’t seem to have any idea of what it takes to get into that school (I don’t either for that matter!). This is probably not practical, but would help alleviate some of the disappointment these kids feel every year. </p>
<p>The middle school kids even go on a school sponsored field trip to UVA in order to “inspire” them. It’s just too much of a reach for most of these kids. The trip should be to JMU, CNU or somewhere attainable. This UVA adoration should stop. It’s not the only game in town.</p>
<p>I can tell you from watching scores of friends fill out college apps, these EC’s are often embellished and burnished to a remarkable degree. I was shocked by one of my friends completely misrepresenting his role in an organization we both belonged to reflect his “leadership.” And I have never heard of any college following up to check these claims out. There is far more gaming of the system in that respect than all the prep school programs out there.</p>
<p>Oh and for heaven’s sake, let’s drop this reverence for the “holistic” review. If that list provided above is any indication, in UVA’s case “holistic”=“meaningless.”</p>
<p>People want VADAD to shut up for the same reason they tried to shush the little kid who pointed out the emperor had no clothes. He is pointing out some unpleasant truths .</p>
<p>
We do try! We visit high schools for a few months each fall (and often in the spring, as well). We host a counselor program here in Grounds. We email out counselor newsletters. We try to attend those “Junior Night” programs if we can, though our staff is small and those programs are often scheduled during our busy time (reading season and Days on the Lawn season). </p>
<p>I personally try to schedule a visit with every public high school in the area I cover (Arlington, Fairfax, and Loudoun counties). The counselors don’t always come to our presentations, but the Career Center Specialists do and they are well versed in our process. My school visits focus on what we look for, not on “selling” (which is the strategy other schools use during school visits).</p>
<p>
I completely agree. As a Virginia transplant, I’m often stunned at how quickly natives dismiss the amazing options they have here. A politician was quoted a few years back in the Washington Post as saying something like students are forced to leave the Commonwealth for college if they aren’t admitted to UVa or William & Mary. It makes no sense.</p>
<p>I can’t even believe some of what I’m reading here. An objective view putting all of the weight on SAT scores and a GPA? No one is getting robbed by UVA admissions because someone else with a 1500 on the SAT lies about out of school activities and manically robs the stellar 2300 student out of his/her destined spot. It just doesn’t happen. UVA admissions is known for focusing on academics as it is. Go right to the undergraduate website and read how it blatantly states an emphasis on coursework and grades. My extracurricular activities were incredibly weak, but my academics were strong. I got accepted. The truth of the matter is there is something about the application of VADAD1’s daughter that he’s not really telling us. If his daughter took a full AP courseload among all core subjects, was at the top of her class, and scored a 2300 on the SAT, she would have been accepted to UVA. That is the bottom line.</p>
<p>The emphasis on the SAT here is puzzling. I don’t know if you know this, but that test is pretty much worthless. Please don’t go and quote Collegeboard on its extreme significance in determining success. If I administered it, I’d say the same. I’ve seen so many people who are gifted intellectually perform poorly on that exam time and time again. The most mathematically gifted student I’ve ever had the chance to know scored in the 600s, albeit he only took the test once. We don’t need any more emphasis on that test. In reality, it is more of a measure of who had the time to do hundreds of practice questions and memorize the style of the exam.</p>
<p>Dean J, you blocked me from your blog!! I was gonna be nice from now on. Meanie.</p>
<p>You are just wrong. </p>
<p>I don’t know how much more simply to say it. You are just wrong.</p>
<p>4.5 GPA
Class Rank of 8/417 = Top 2%
2330 on SAT in one sitting - 790 CR, 780 MTH, 760 WR
2340 Superscore with a previous 770 on WR
760 SAT II Chemistry
750 SAT II Literature
730 Math II</p>
<p>1 AP class and 2 Dual Enrollment classes last year, 6 AP classes this year - AP Calculus, AP Chemistry, AP Euro History, AP Government, AP English, AP Spanish, Honors Physics because AP Physics is not available.</p>
<p>Before Junior Year, she was in the IB middle years program. Her counselor insured me this morning that she took the most rigorous schedule available.</p>
<p>In state.</p>
<p>Chemistry Club, Spanish Club, FBLA, Summer Governor’s School, Copy Editor of School paper, Academic Challenge Team (District Champs), and Model UN.</p>
<p>No Disciplinary Issues.</p>
<p>Strong Counselor Recomendation, I read it this morning.</p>
<p>Yes, I know it seems unbelievable. Nobody can believe it. I’ll redact my daughter’s name and link you to anything you want or e-mail you any document you want if it will get you to stop calling me a liar.</p>
<p>Rather than calling you a liar, I am saying that these numbers are easy to confuse. Also, one thing you haven’t said is unweighted GPA. Many students who apply to UVA have a 4.0 without weight. Another important thing is you haven’t actually detailed your daughter’s course load outside of saying an objective number of AP classes. Did she take AP courses in every subject? Did she reach high level math and science? Many other pertinent questions could be asked outside of basic numbers.</p>
<p>I think UVA should revamp the Common Data list. I’ve seen a number of colleges that have outright false info out there. That legacy and race are in that first category, makes no sense at all, and I find it difficult to believe those are the most important things in the app process. SAT scores should be up there as should Talent. I know a slew of atheltes that are in the school only due to talent as they went the athletic route. Superb talent will get you into most any school over most attributes if it that talent is to the benefit to the school. I also don’t believe test scores fall below recs.</p>
<p>I added the courses after the fact, my bad. Just to rehash.</p>
<p>AP Chemistry
AP Calculus
AP Spanish
AP English
AP Government
AP European History
Honors Physics only because AP Physics is not available.</p>
<p>Fermat, I am going to tell you right now, that this statement you made is flat false, unless you don’t consider being in the top 2% close enough to the top of the class:</p>
<p>If his daughter took a full AP courseload among all core subjects, was at the top of her class, and scored a 2300 on the SAT, she would have been accepted to UVA. That is the bottom line.</p>
<p>
Your comments offended a number of readers. You changed the tone for a place that has traditionally been a cathartic forum for students to express their feelings.</p>