chance me HYP etc.

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hey CC. I’d really appreciate it if you guys could predict my chances of acceptance into the list of colleges at the end of this document!

ACT: 34 (35E, 33M, 34R, 33S) and a 10 on the Writing test.
1460 PSAT
1520 SAT, 17W (will not submit)

GPA
Freshman year: 3.98 UW GPA, 4.53 W GPA end of freshman year (3.97/4.56 S1 and 4.0/4.65 S2)
Sophomore year–4.0 UW/4.74 W GPA S1. 4.0 UW/4.74 W GPA S2. final: 4.63?

Courses:
9th grade:
Honors Ancient Literature–1st semester A-/2nd semester A
Honors Biology–A+/A+
Honors Latin V–A+/A+
Honors Classical Rhetoric–A/A+
Western Civ I–A+/A+
Algebra II–A+/A+
Comparative art (semester course)–A+; American Music (other semester)–A+

10th grade:
Honors Rhetoric of Style–A+/A+
Honors Western Civ II–A/A
Honors Medieval-Enlightenment Literature–A+/A+
Honors/CIS Latin VI–A+/A+
Honors Chemistry–A+/A+
Pre-Calculus–A+/A+
Health–A+/Gym A+

Junior year
AP Capstone: Seminar
Honors American History
AP Bio
Honors Genetics
Honors/CIS/AP Latin VII
CIS/AP Calculus AB
AP English Literature

Senior year
AP Research
Civics and Economics
AP Calc BC
AP Stats
AP Physics C
Honors Anatomy and Physiology
Honors Latin VIII
Honors Post-Enlightenment Lit and Honors Melville

AP Tests (NOT YET TAKEN)
Seminar-J
Lang-J
American History-J
Bio-J
Latin-J
Calc AB-J
English Lit-J
Calc BC-S
Physics C-S
Stats-S
(and research, but that’s just a senior thesis)-S

Extracurriculars

MOCK TRIAL
9th-present. Competed at an international competition in San Francisco and got 3rd/28 teams in 2017. see the awards section for more! I’m hoping to make my school’s top team this year–I talked to the head coach and he told me I have a very good chance. WE PLACED TOP 3 NATIONALLY THIS YEAR, so it would be great for me to make it on. Also, I love mock trial and have a lot of friends on the top team, so it would all-around be a great experience.

MODEL ASSEMBLY
–basically a mock State Congress/State government. 9th-present
Was voted Steering Committee Chair for my delegation this year (basically captain) 10th.
Organizing Students Vote–mock gubernatorial election.

Student Senate
–elected position. One of 3 representatives of my grade. Was voted into office freshman year and re-elected last spring.
Vice President junior year 2018-19

Science Club
–co-founder and president. Not competitive–a bunch of nerds sitting around and discussing scientific ideas every other week during lunch. I love it. 9th-present

Volunteering at local hospital emergency room
–I really love doing this, and I will probably rack up 200+ hours by the time college apps come around. I have around 70 right now. Honestly it’s always one of the highlights of my week. This is one of THE most generic things I’ve seen though. Started 10th

NHS–not that special. I’m committee leader of the Blood Drive…? Going to run for prez this year and there’s a high likelihood of a win because I know almost everyone personally. 10th

Rowing/crew–I’m really terrible at it. Seriously–I have an 8:56 2k as a lightweight girl. It’s bad. But I’m 5’9" so at least that helps I think? This is only in summer. Not a chance of recruitment or even improvement honestly. Started summer after 8th

Camp Neuro: neuroscience summer camp. Week-long day-camp…Kind of selective, but not anything to brag about. But it was really fun. Not sure if I should include this on college apps. Summer after 9th.

Volunteering on political campaigns–doorknocking and phonebanking for Dems. summer after 10th

Job at Old Navy–yeah. Summer after 10th. probably not permanent because of schoolwork

Democratic Coordinated Campaign Fellowship–help with communicating to voters and organizing events. Junior year–2018 elections

Student Election Judge–idk what we do yet but I am signed up and excited to learn more about what happens on Election Day. 2018 election.

APPLIED: United States Senate Youth Program

APPLIED: My state’s HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PAGE PROGRAM

I also recently volunteered with a Court of Appeals judge for an event, and she gave me her card. I am thinking about getting in touch with her as soon as the fellowship and blood drive and Students Vote are done. She was really nice and intelligent, and I think she might be able to help me get involved in some kind of position in the Court of Appeals–maybe a volunteer bringing people to the courtroom? Even if not, it was a really cool experience.

Teacher recs:
should be glowing. I love all of my teachers and have good relationships with all of them. Pretty sure I know who I’m gonna have write my letters already.

Awards/certificates:

Varsity letter in Mock Trial 2016-17

State Bar Association Certificate of Merit for 2017 Mock Trial

Outstanding Attorney Award at a trial invitational competition 2017

Member of a team that placed 3rd at that same invitational in 2018

3 Silver medals on National Latin Exam (took levels 2, 3, and 4 Prose).

1 Gold medal on National Latin Exam–5 Prose

My team got 3rd/28 teams at that San Francisco mock trial comp I mentioned above. This is actually a major accomplishment for my school (different invitational than the first one in this award list–please direct your attention to the ECs pocket)!

Outstanding Spirit of Mock Trial 2017-18

Varsity Letter in Mock Trial 2017-18
(QUESTION: Should I include school awards like letters and “outstanding spirit” awards on my application?)

Class Rank
My school doesn’t do class rank, but I’m the only person in my class of 64 people to take 5 honors in 10th and 7 honors/ap/cis classes in junior year, so I think I am probably the top student.

School/family background
My school is ranked #1 in the state by US News.

Schools I’m interested in:
Harvard
Dartmouth
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
Georgetown
UMaine
UVA
UNC Chapel Hill
Occidental

I also would love some help choosing some safeties besides Maine.

What do I need to do to improve? I am a junior at the moment. Thank you!!

2

Your 2K ERG score really needs to be BELOW 7:40 to be a competitive crew recruit for HYPS & G. IMHO that might be your only “backdoor” as crew teams are given very few slots so coaches and AO’s look for potential walk-on’s. (See: https://www.elite-rowing-coach.com/blogs/rowing-coach-xeno-muller/15459477-urgent-college-recruiting-information-female-high-school-rowers-need-to-be-trained-differently-then-their-male-counterparts)

Other than that, your stats look pretty standard for the average Harvard applicant – meaning, good but not really a stand out. Without a nod from crew, it would seem like you would be a deferred applicant in the SCEA round and a rejected or waitlisted applicant in the RD round.

3

Well you are a lock at UMaine-assuming you are a resident. For the rest you are a toss up. Excellent academics but otherwise nothing that really stands out.

4

@gibby I appreciate the feedback. I don’t think that lowering my 2K time is really in the cards. Do you have suggestions as to what I could do to become a stand out?

5

I think you’re a solid candidate, so long as you have a junior year in the same model that your previous years have been. However most of the schools on your list are stupidly selective, so make sure that you temper your expectations and you should be fine.

6

I graduated from an ivy and my two students were admitted to elite colleges. My two cents is that you got too much here and the good stuff is getting lost. How do you want to present your strengths and your unique contributions to any community you join? What do you spend time thinking about (intellectual life?). In terms of activities, you likely want to present top 7 and prioritize them in terms of interest to you, identify your leadership positions and any awards won. How do you tie your passions with what you want to accomplish in life. Have you had to overcome any obstacles or challenges in your young life? Write well crafted and well written essays that are interesting. Avoid common topics. Good Luck!

7

Sharing @ucbalumnus’s very helpful thread: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/2095312-generic-chance-answer-for-super-selective-colleges.html (@ucbalumnus, I want a cut of your residuals…)

I agree with @preppedparent: pull together your ECs into a narrative arc.

Also, when you next do ‘chance’ threads (ideally not before next summer, when you have marks from Grade 11), you don’t need to include such fine-grained info: 'all honors courses / most rigorous curriculum, top of (small) class, 3.99UW/4.xxW) tells us pretty much the same thing.

8

@margeu Unless you have a hook, your chances are as good or as bad as the next kid with stellar credentials. All your achievements are laudable, but as one of the posters mentioned, many of the kids applying to Harvard have similar credentials. As a female crew athlete, if you can get recruited and be offered a recruitment slot by the coach, then it will almost be a guarantee with your academic stats of being admitted. Perhaps you can put it all in to become much better in crew. Many of the athletes in Harvard have practically spent “25hrs/ day” on their sport and not much in any other ECs to become an elite athlete. You’re actually doing too many things and need to focus and become passionate in one specific area. Again, the crew may perhaps become your hook, if you like it and become passionate about it.

9

This is a fallacy that just keeps getting repeated and repeated.

Here’s the good news. No, there are not going to be many applicants even at Harvard who scored 1520 on the SAT as a sophomore, are sporting a ~4.0 GPA, and are also the top student at their school. Keep that record up through the end of this year - and maybe raise your SAT 30-40 points - and you will be comfortably within the top academic index decile of Harvard applicants, meaning comfortably within the top 10% of Harvard’s applicant pool based on academic stats. Not “similar” or “standard” at all for the applicant pool, and probably not even wholly representative of the admits.

Now, for the bad news. Even within that top academic decile, historically only about 15% of white students were admitted, and about 12% of Asian students. These numbers might be slightly lower now (they are based on classes of 2014 through 2019), but I suspect not by much if at all. Another thing working against you, unfortunately, is that your school is small, which will affect the weighting of your GPA in Harvard’s academic index model. If you stay at the top, though, the effect should not be too severe.

Note that for legacy, with those stats, the admit rate would be well over 50%. So, OP, assuming you are not legacy, your admission chances are very much dependent upon what else you bring to the table besides academics.

I’ll let others give you advice about that, but I do think it it is useful to clear up the nonsense that there is some huge pool out there of academic superstars. Hardly.

10

@SatchelSF Not sure where you are getting your stats, but whites are certainly not 15%. Last year and this year Asian admit rate was little above 20%, blacks 14%, but the whites were in the majority. https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics With close to 50 thousand students applying, good number of those students would have excellent credential similar to the OP’s stat. Yes 1520 on the SAT is very impressive and commendable, but if you look at the average scores of the admitted class, it is about average.

11

@noanswers - My numbers are good. All these data have come out as a result of the Asian discrimination lawsuit.

Note that I am comparing OP to the applicant pool, because the claim was made that she is about average for Harvard applicants. I agree that for the admits, her stats would be much closer to average, although if she improves a bit she will be comfortably above average even for the admits, on academic measures.

There has been so much discussion on the documents on cc over the past few months that I am reluctant to post the links again. But see here for cites to some source documents: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21686501/#Comment_21686501

12

@noanswers - I think I now see your confusion; it’s probably my fault as I could have written it more clearly.

What I am saying is that if you are a white applicant whose stats place you within the top academic decile of all applicants (so, you are top 10% on stats), then your admit rate has been ~15% over the classes 2014-2019. For an Asian similarly situated the admit rate was ~12%.

Legacy confers an extraordinary advantage. For legacies who basically were in the top 50% of the applicant pool on academic stats, the admit rate was 55%, extraordinarily high. The data do not have enough granularity to figure out the admit rate for legacies within that top 10% of applicants, but it would have had to approach 80-90% I’d imagine to get a blended rate of 55% for the top half.

13

First off . . .

I’m still not used to the new SAT, so I have to use the concordance tables to translate the new SAT to the old 3-part SAT. When I do, a 1520 on the new SAT translates to a 2210 on the old SAT (https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf).

While that is impressive and commendable for some colleges, it is an average SAT score for colleges such as HYPS See: https://features.thecrimson.com/2014/freshman-survey/admissions/

Also see Harvard’s Common Data Set, C-9 Data points: https://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2017-18.pdf

Secondly . . .

Harvard does not break-down the number of white students admitted, but you can infer the approximate amount by adding up the ethnicities supplied by Harvard and subtracting from 100. Doing the math, Harvard would then be approximately 49% white (not 15%). See: https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics).

Lastly . . .

Harvard Admissions is on record as saying that 80% of applicants can do the work on their campus, and fully 40% of them are top students with exemplarily credentials.

Now, last year 42,749 students applied to Harvard. If 40% of them are tippy-top students, that means 17,100 students are the best-of-the-best from across the country and around the world – truly stellar students with top grades, test scores, recommendations and essays!

However, Harvard only has room for 1660 students in their freshman class, which means over 15,000 terrifically qualified students just like you were rejected last year!

That means you need to be realistic about your chances at a school like HYPS. Do you have a chance? Sure, but how much of a chance is anyone’s guess, as none of us are Admissions Directors who are seeing the full pool of applicants.

Colleges such as Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and Georgetown are all ultra-high reaches for any applicant, so you need to find more target schools and add them to your list. For example, have you investigated Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin, Pomona, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Duke, Rice, WashU in St. Louis, College of William & Mary, Wake Forest, UMich, UCLA, etc. You should have more of those schools on your list, as right it now it is skewed towards the ultra high reaches.

Remember: Selective colleges uses a student’s teacher recommendations, guidance counselor’s Secondary School Report (SSR), Essays and Interview Report to choose one high performing student over another. They look for wonderful scholars of “good character” – that’s an old fashioned word meaning the way you develop your inner qualities, intellectual passion, maturity, social conscience, concern for community, tolerance, inclusiveness and love of learning. And your application must tell a story, paint a picture of who you are, that allows an Admissions director to see beyond the grades and test scores. A great place to start is actually on Yale’s website: https://admissions.yale.edu/advice-putting-together-your-application.

Best of luck to you!

14

MODERATOR’S NOTE:

However, this thread, where the OP is asking for chances, is not the place to have in-depth conversations on this topic; feel free to continue on the linked thread and use this thread to assist the OP

15

OP is a junior now. She has a year to form her narrative. No need to pressure her to meet some assumed expectations. Would be better to point her to the more direct source: what these colleges actually say and show about what they want, what sorts of students they tout.

OP, there’s a lot good in your activities, but what’s the possible major?
Why not submit the SAT? I hope you aren’t assuming it’s not good. Anything over 730 is the right range on the new tests. (The bar is lower, but this is a good shooting range.) What are the individual scores?

Tippy tops don’t care that OP scored this as a soph. There is no penalty or tip. There is no saying, “Oh, but not many sophs score this.” Scores are scores. And plenty (read it: plenty) of applicants will have top scores and a 4.0.

So, you’re qualified to apply. I’d expect you to get past first cut. (That still leaves several layers of review.) But how you fare depends on how well you put your app together, what attributes and qualities come through. Adcoms don’t guess, based on lots of activities or interesting courses. You have to show what they like, in the app/presentation. You’ll need the right LoRs and a good interview. And geo diversty or your major may affect how you get through final rounds.

Do you know what these colleges will like, what they look for?

Tell us the possible major.

16

“I also would love some help choosing some safeties besides Maine.”

I will also assume that this means that you are an American citizen living in Maine.

What is your budget? Do you know whether you have any budget restrictions?

The Ivy’s and Stanford are of course reaches. Your stats are typical of the students who are accepted, but are also typical of many of the students who get rejected. You might have a bit more A+'s and a bit fewer A-'s than some who are rejected.

Assuming that you are in Maine, you have a very long border with your neighbours to the North and East. Pretty much any university up there would be a safety with your stats. Many of them are relatively affordable.

17

OP, assuming you continue your academic trend, you have a much better chance than the average applicant because your stat’s put you at the average or above of admitted students, 2 very different groups. However, based on the objectives that we can see ( and assuming you do not have additional hooks like URM, legacy, etc…) the admit rate for students with similar stat’s is probably well under 50%, maybe something closer to 20-30% (totally a guess, but based on some data in the Harvard litigation and schools that used to report admissions rates by subscores) . Your individual probabilities will be determined by the strength of subjective factors evaluated through the LoR’s, EC’s and essays.

I agree with the other posters here who note that your EC’s/awards are too scattershot as presented. When you present yourself in the app, focus on the ones that will showcase you the best and present a coherent narrative along with your LoR’s and essays.

I would expand your list to include some not so high reaches, but if you remain on track, I’d definitely apply SCEA to one of HYPS. If you get in, you can cut your list way way back and save yourself and your parents a lot of stress, time and money. If you get rejected (other than Stanford which is pretty digital in its decision), you will need to rethink the strength of your app as rejects (especially Harvard) are fairly rare in the EA round. If you are deferred, no harm, no foul. Also consider some state flagship honors programs with rolling admissions. They serve the same function as SCEA to HYPS except they are allowed under the SCEA rules for HYPS.

18

Hello all!! I really appreciate the helpful responses. Some clarifying info:
—I come from Minnesota, not Maine—I am interested in Maine as a safety because I want to live on the east coast (I was lucky enough to visit this past summer for college tours) and believe it would be a good environment. That’s not a locked-down safety though—I have to do more research on the school before absolutely applying. But I will be looking at schools with around the same acceptance rate for safeties.

To address the comments saying my resume is too scattered: what if I edited my extracurriculars to read as follows:

MOCK TRIAL
9th-present. Competed at an international competition in San Francisco and got 3rd/28 teams in 2017. see the awards section for more! I’m hoping to make my school’s top team this year–I talked to the head coach and he told me I have a very good chance. WE PLACED TOP 3 NATIONALLY THIS YEAR, so it would be great for me to make it on. Also, I love mock trial and have a lot of friends on the top team, so it would all-around be a great experience.

MODEL ASSEMBLY
–basically a mock State Congress/State government. 9th-present
Was voted Steering Committee Chair for my delegation this year (basically captain) 10th.
Organizing Students Vote–mock gubernatorial election.

Student Senate
–elected position. One of 3 representatives of my grade. Was voted into office freshman year and re-elected last spring.
Vice President junior year 2018-19

NHS–not that special. I’m committee leader of the Blood Drive…? Going to run for prez this year and there’s a high likelihood of a win because I know almost everyone personally. 10th—

Volunteering on political campaigns–doorknocking and phonebanking for Dems. summer after 10th

Job at Old Navy–yeah. Summer after 10th. probably not permanent because of schoolwork. Should I even include this?

Democratic Coordinated Campaign Fellowship–help with communicating to voters and organizing events. Junior year–2018 elections

Student Election Judge–idk what we do yet but I am signed up and excited to learn more about what happens on Election Day. 2018 election.

APPLIED: United States Senate Youth Program

APPLIED: My state’s HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PAGE PROGRAM

POSSIBILITY: Some kind of work in Court of Appeals office. I have yet to get in touch with her.

IN-PROGRESS: I am currently working on a website promoting ethics in politics. I have a punny name and hope to get people involved in the government and keep them aware of current issues and their morality. Started this past July—still figuring out logistics.

I want my spike to clearly be politics and law. I originally was considering medicine as a freshman, but a number of things changed my perspective and I now have different interests, which is why the original list may appear scattered.

Please tell me if this is a better EC list!

Thanks!

19

FWIW: I think you are misunderstanding the word “spike.” CC won’t let me quote the source of the below, but it speaks to my point . . .

Harvard (and YPS) are seeking to admit students who will “change the world,” So, what have you done in politics and law that speaks to that end? How – as a 17-year old – have YOUR ACTIONS changed the world through law and politics? That is the question Admissions Directors will be looking to find out in your application.

Your response . . .

. . . is NOT going to push you over the fence (sorry).

20

@gibby I appreciate the response. You say that this isn’t going to push me over the fence. What would you say WOULD accomplish that? I am planning on running voter registration drives through my organization and putting out social media ads encouraging people to vote ethically. After the midterm, the plan is to turn out questionnaires and newsletters asking people to consider the morality of politicians’ actions. We are completely nonpartisan and try to focus objectively on actions where the ethics are questionable.

Thank you.