You are 100% correct. Me being new, and her being a kid, we tend to think shorter term but you are right on all points.
“Likely letter” for URM’s? Never heard of this…
College of Engineering at Cornell does non athlete likely letters. I’m not sure of the other colleges there but a family member got one last year.
I’m going to PM you because I’m getting a warning message from CC that I should message you instead ; )
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Very nice, starting to make some good progress!!! Remember you don’t need to decide today and I’ve found that it can be overwhelming if mom/dad are constantly asking questions about college. One suggestion that worked well with my D was to have a scheduled touch base, can be once a month for now then will naturally ramp up. Between meetings, I would have her do a few specific things (maybe a virtual tour, or review some specific programs…) and then let me know her thoughts the next time we met.
Right now the focus shouldn’t be on a specific school (example Phila (Penn only)). If she likes Philadelphia as a City, then likes BC as a School, then you may want to add Villanova. If she likes Vassar, then maybe Swarthmore…
Have her dig down to the next level in her major? Look at the difference between a BA in Math vs a BS in Math. Look at the different types of Engineering programs and see if anything clicks (Look at RPIs project based curriculum, the CO-OP program at Drexel, what type of Engineering seems the most interesting (here think general types, Civil (large construction projects, buildings, roadways, bridges), Mechanical (machines, automotive, aerospace), Chemical (Chemical Mfg), Electrical and Computer.
Right now it’s OK if your list is expanding, it will eventually shrink as you dig deeper
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The class rank (maybe listed as Decile on her transcript) will help complete the picture, together with the UW GPA.
Based on the ACT and SAT scores, she is a great student and there are many respected/recognized colleges (like Northeastern), where she has promising odds.
However, at the highly selective schools/Ivy’s, most candidates will be at least at a 34, or 1500, of which >90% still will not be accepted, dampening chances quite a bit the further one is below those numbers. While she does have commendable ECs, those are not atypical, so probably wouldn’t offset the bare figures.
Having lofty goals is not wrong, and including CC/BC/NYU makes sense given the proximity - as long as the focus is on getting excited about some of the other, more attainable schools.
Oh no - some of the selective schools and any merit aid that she might be offered will be because all that “extra stuff” made her a good match. Ultimately, admissions is for the “complete package”, and all her efforts will make her stand out and open doors for her that otherwise might have been opened for someone else.
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Here is a complete list of colleges that do fly ins for URM students. I’ve only kept the ones here that might fit the bill given much of what you have mentioned so far.
- Amherst College
- Babson College
- Barnard College
- Bates College
- Bowdoin College
- Brandeis University
- Bryant University
- Bryn Mawr College
- Bucknell University
- Carleton College
- Carnegie Mellon University
- Case Western Reserve University
- Colby College
- Colgate University
- College of the Holy Cross
- Colorado College
- Connecticut College
- Dartmouth College
- Davidson College
- Emory University
- Franklin & Marshall College
- George Washington University
- Grinnell College
- Hamilton College
- Haverford College
- Johns Hopkins University
- Kenyon College
- Lafayette College
- Lehigh University
- Miami University
- Middlebury College
- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
- Oberlin College
- Pomona College
- Reed College
- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
- Rice University
- Smith College
- St. Olaf College
- Swarthmore College
- Trinity College
- Tufts University
- Tulane University
- Union College
- University of Denver
- University of Richmond
- University of Rochester
- Washington and Lee University
- Wellesley College
- Wesleyan University
- Whitman College
- Williams College
- Worcester Polytechnic Institute
You can afford 50-60k. Many of these colleges are close to 80k a year. Will you qualify for any need based aid?
Otherwise, look for merit scholarships to fill in the rest. For her, I think she could have a shot at scholarships at WPI, U Roch, U Rich, U Den, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Kenyon, Connecticut, Trinity, Davidson, Grinnell. All of which are excellent colleges.
If your D needs that money in order to attend, she might want to consider giving up on her strict desire to be in or near a city. Many of the best colleges are not in the Boston’s and the LA’s and the San Frans.
One year at Cal, for this year at least, is $69,000. Can you afford that, along with the annual price increase? It is probable that by the time your child graduates five years from now, annual tuition will be $75,000 a year, if not more. If you can afford it, I might say it’s worth it, but if you can’t, I don’t think the Cal degree will get your kid farther in life than the WPI degree with a good scholarship.
Most students/parents come here looking for schools that are “in or near an urban area.” Then as they learn more, they begin to understand that in order to get what they really want, geographic considerations might be the first to go. This was true of my own kid.
If money is a significant issue that can’t be overcome, that really needs to be the starting point. Applying to Stanford and getting in is fantastic, but not if it’s unaffordable.
Your daughter can only take out loans that will totally about $27k over four years. That’s manageable, but still sizable. Do you want her saddled with debt as a postgrad? Does she understand how these loans work? That she will accrue interest right away? That interest is money?
It’s in both your best interests to be 100% upfront about exactly how much you can afford and how much she will be expected to contribute. Working in the holidays and summers is great, but once she gets to college, many of them will only allow kids to work a max of ten hours a week. College is work and it comes first. We all know stories of adults with kids now, and they are still paying off student loans. Run the NPC for all colleges of interest and see if you will qualify for any need based aid.
Take advantage of flyins to some of the schools on this list. Bear in mind that she will still need to keep up homework, etc… I think three flyins is about the max for many kids.
Encourage her to be realistic with her wish list. She needs to stop fixating on names and prestige.
NYU is notorious for poor FA. It will almost certainly be unaffordable. It’s odd to say Philadelphia is ok, but only for Penn and not for Swarthmore, Haverford, or Bryn Mawr, three of the best LACs anywhere. She is fine with DC, but GWU is not known for good FA. AU isn’t particularly known for her majors.
She’s got a list of cities and famous names, not a realistic list of affordable colleges.
Luckily she’s a junior and you both have plenty of time to do a lot of research before this time next year. Keep us updated.
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It looks like you have an older child, a senior? Please Chance me at SUNY's. Low SAT, high GPA without H's or AP... I need help
Or maybe you have twins? At any rate, your FA might be affected by this. Your financial situation is private, but it would help us if you could clarify so that we can better advise you.
WRT to SUNY schools, btw, if she is willing to consider Bing, she can look at some of the CUNY’s too. Stony Brook is out? I’m not sure she’s going to get what she is looking for at New Paltz or Albany.
We will not qualify for anything. Income is too high- even though we have the same quality of life as someone in the midwest with 1/2 the income. Don’t get me started. Our net income is probably the same as their, but we look well off based on income.
Yes- I have a senior who will very likely attend a SUNY, and a Junior who will likely have many more options. And then a third in a few years.
Saved the same $ for all 3 kids. Anything not used by #1 will flow to #2 and then anything left to #3.
#1 going to SUNY helps, because it will free up $ for #2. I don’t they will care less that we have multiple kids in school. I don’t expect a break. #2 merit is really all I can hope for. Based on #1 going SUNY, I expect to have 60-65K for #2. If she takes out Staffords, budget gets to 65-70. If we really had to and it was worth it, we could go out of pocket for her during her 4 years for an additional amount not to exceed 15K.
So in sum- we could handle 80K if it was an absolute necessity.
However, it drains the coffers for grad school entirely.
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So start looking at some of the excellent colleges in my previous post that offer merit. WPI is a really great option, seriously. It’s in Worcester, a city, and a quick train ride away from Boston. They offer a full catalog of courses, not just engineering stuff, and she will probably get a lot of attention from them.
Some of the colleges mentioned in this thread offer scholarships to a very few tippy top students. She might have a shot, if her teacher recs are really good, her essays, etc… Maybe there is more we don’t know about her ECs. But her GPA is good and if she has more rigor next year, it will help her (only if she can maintain high grades though.) Rigor is really important, but we don’t know the context of what honors and AP courses are offered at her school.
I think she should be looking for merit seriously at Lehigh, Lafayette, Davidson, W&L, Union, Trinity, U Roch, and WPI. U Denver will almost certainly give her a LOT of money, and it has a kind of preprofessional vibe. Great city. CMU is a reach, but amazing school. She might qualify for merit. Emory is worth a shot too.
I suggest you get the Fiske Guide. https://www.amazon.com/Fiske-Guide-Colleges-2023-Edward/dp/1492665002/ref=asc_df_1492665002/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=552882832481&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5861136948590191513&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052039&hvtargid=pla-1443343455741&psc=1
It’s one of the very top sources for learning about colleges. You can get last year’s edition at the library. She can also look at niche, which will give her a more student-centered idea of the campus vibe.
P.S. To clarify, many of the colleges on the flyins list offer ONLY need based aid. It is possible that you will qualify for something in the next year or two with two kids in college and a third to follow. Are you prepared to scrimp and save for #2 just for the sake of the college name? Many of the colleges on the flyin list DO offer merit to students, but many don’t.
If I had a choice between Williams at full pay and Oberlin with a $30,000 a year scholarship, I think I’d follow the money in your situation.
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I admit I had a similar feeling at first — why did my kid take such rigorous classes and get such great grades only to — in all likelihood — end up at a school equivalent to their brother’s (when he skated through doing the minimum)?
Since then, though, I have discovered that many of these non-“elite” schools have really cool Honors Colleges or special programs for certain majors that are only available to top students, along with merit scholarships. I have gotten over my crush on top 20 schools and am falling in love with some of the schools I took for granted before — just like every rom com movie where the character stops pining away for the good-looking popular kid and finally falls for the good friend who has been there all along.
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Yes, it’s hard, easier if you know going in though. My daughter graduated 8th in her class 9 AP’s, tons of shadowing hours, in honors, graduating a year early (saving $), great merit, entering one of the top DPT programs in the country. Her rigor prepared her very well for college (3.9 so far), it definitely wasn’t a waste. She’s having a wonderful experience.
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OK. I have taken much of your input into consideration, and done some preliminary research.
To refresh and update to a degree:
My daughter
- Hispanic female from NY (Long Island)
- Currently junior taking AP Physics, Psych and Stats. 4 on AP Comp Sci as a Sophomore.
- NHRP
- 1450 SAT
- 4.69 W GPA
- 2 Varsity sports
- Volunteer tutoring
- Started peer coaching program: college admissions, assisting ENL students
- Intended major: Math or engineering. Premed hard science possible but less likely
- Location preference is warm or urban. If urban, not in far northern reaches.
- No preference on size of school
- Budget: 60K. So expensive private will require some sort of aid in addition to what she borrows.
I think below are a decent list… would love comments. I think much better than round 1.
Reach
- Columbia
-both parents have masters degrees from, although they explicitly do not count this as a legacy, it can’t hurt
- has an engineering experience directed at URM’s
- Harvey Mudd
- crazy reach maybe, but is in a desirable location for her
- DIII lacrosse which she might be able leverage to an advantage- LI lacrosse is very competitive
- Carnegie Mellon
- not the best location, but…
- accept rate for women is probably better than overall (in fact I know it is)
- not sure $ will make sense
- USC
- checks off all boxes
- $ might not make sense
- Penn
- if admitted, we would figure this out $ wise (we’d borrow for this one)
- would be her top school no doubt
- has programs for STEM URM’s- could be a help
Fit
1&2) Northeastern & BU
- will lump these together, as academics line up with her wishes
- not her preferred location, but are both known to be generous with NHRP students
3&4) Case Western & University of Rochester
- sound like if this school were in a better location, it would be impossible to get into
- seems to cover all bases for her except location
- location might mean they would compete for someone like her harder and show some $
-
Emory
-
GTech (may be more of a reach, but they might compete for her)
Safety
- U of Miami (hopefully she is well above average it would bring cost down)
- Brandeis
- U of San Diego (place looks pretty ideal, but money looks like it would be a problem)
- Santa Clara U (place looks pretty ideal, but money looks like it would be a problem)
- SUNY Binghamton
I do not understand your statement regarding Georgia Tech: “they might compete for her”.
Georgia Tech does consider state of residence even though UGA does not.
A 1450 SAT is commonplace among Ga Tech applicants.
In my opinion, your daughter has a better chance at Emory University than at Georgia Tech although so is competitive for admission to Georgia Tech.
Northeastern, BU, Case Western Reserve, & Univ. of Rochester are match schools.
What was your daughter’s math score on the SAT ?
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If money is an issue then USD and SCU are not safeties. They have to be affordable based on the NPC and if merit is not automatically included in the NPC, then you have to put these schools in the Reach category.
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730 Math
My comment regarding G Tech was more director towards:
- her being female: 35% of all undergraduates
- her being and URM: hispanic students are about 7% of all
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USD and SCU from what I see, typically give about $20K per year in aid to people who fit her profile. That brings the costs much more in line.
She’s be more likely to gets this at USD that SCU
Nothing is guaranteed though- so point taken.
What about Stevens? Hoboken is urban but more significant Path train puts her in NYC in 20 min.
Lots of Engineering programs with good placement and well run Co-op program. Tuition is higher than there target budget but they are very very generous to female athletes.
Worth at least a web search!
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no idea how I missed Stevens! Right under my nose. I am looking at Hoboken out my office window right now!!!
Even though DIII, had 2 female family who were recruited for sports offered substantial merit $$
more than 1/2 of total cost. Older family went somewhere else as she decided not to play sports.
Younger one is there now freshman and enjoying herself academically and athletically. Good luck!!
So you know what sort of level of athletics they play at ? All DIII is not necessarily the same? Do my daughters stats stack up at Steven’s?
Pre-med can be done with any major, but it may be difficult to fit the extra pre-med courses around most engineering majors. Pre-med as a math major is generally quite doable in terms of fitting everything into the schedule, although it may not be as “convenient” as pre-med as a biology major. But math majors typically have better alternate career paths than biology majors in the common case of not getting into any medical school.