Yes, as demonstrated by the stats I posted.
In the 1980s CMU’s football players were all engineering, science and/or business majors, and they still beat teams in their division from less academically challenging schools.
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@nathanhurts - first thing is, you have to clarify budget with your parents.
UVA COE for engineering next year is $47,906. This assumes you have health insurance - otherwise it’s another $3900.
Tuition is $25,390.
So you quoted a # that is just over half of COA - so that’s a discussion you need to have with your folks now - because it makes all the difference.
So - colleges basically don’t match - and others can correct me. Where they might match is need aid of a comparable or higher school…especially on a meets need basis. There was recently a student and I hope I have the order of schools right - but Colgate gave them a better need offer than Hamilton by like $5K. And Hamilton matched. They are peer schools. There have been similar mentions of Ivy’s doing so. But you don’t have need and if you don’t have need, it’s a different game.
So if we take your COA out to $50K, then
I’d remove Penn State - you can get close - but there are other schools you can do for less - Minnesota, Ohio State and more. Of course there’s annual inflation. GA Tech will get you right there.
Then you have to run the NPCs - because MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, don’t offer merit aid. Cornell is $88,150. It’s what you’re paying. So replace with a Vandy or WUSTL or Rice that offer some, albeit not a ton, of merit aid - but the merit they offer could be substantial - if you still want that “level” of school - which is not necessary in engineering.
So check with your parents on what you have - and then ask, if you spend less, will they give you the difference. As noted, where you go in most cases matters little.
As an anecdote, my kid was into Purdue with $10K merit. Yet after visiting Alabama with friends, he chose to go there (his own dorm room the primary reason).
Fast forward 4 years, he’s just graduated. He had two internships - the first year living with 2 Ga Tech kids in an Air BNB. He was invited back a second summer; he said they weren’t.
He had 5 offers in the fall b4 he stopped interviewing (interviewed with 20 companies. He now works for an aerospace company as a MechE - and he’s in a big program with kids from Michigan, Purdue, CWRU, NC State, Auburn, Utah, Missouri S&T, W MIchigan and more.
Engineering is hard. All these kids are smart. A school like Alabama specifically buy kids in which was lucky for me as a full pay dad. I was all set on Purdue but turns out I saved $80K or so - lucky me. And as my son points out - he has the exact same outcome.
So if your parents say - yes - UVA COA - that’s a whole different ballgame than what you posted above - and take your shots - and like my son, you might decide, I don’t need to spend my budget. I need to visit schools and find the right school for me.
If your budget is $25K, it’s not remotely close to the end of the world - because whether you study Electrical Engineering at Christopher Newport or W Carolina not on your list but ABET accredited) or you go to Va Tech, you’re going to be fine.
Schools like Bama, Arizona, Mississippi State, UAH do especially well in engineering because they buy great kids. Bama has more national merit scholars than anywhere and 58% come from OOS including more than 1000 from each from Illinois, Texas, and CA. A destination school if you will. Just showing you - you’re not dead in the water if you end up a school that you believe has less pedigree. You believe it, likely because a magazine told you so. But a magazine doesn’t represent the real world.
And if you want the big name private - like I said above, there are others.
You asked for a chance - I put it above - your likelies will all be yes and I’d lean toward yes on Purdue although it’s still a toss up. The other 6 and Cooper Union will be hard. btw - if you looked at Cooper Union and I might be wrong in comparison, but have you looked at Olin?
Really - like every kid - the mistake you made was making a list without understanding the budget. So that’s step one. UVA is below (without inflation so it will be more for you) and without the health insurance (which hopefully you won’t need from them as it’s nearly $4K).
Good luck - and don’t be afraid to open your mind school wise if needed to meet budget.
| School of Engineering, First-Year | Virginian | Non-Virginian |
|---|---|---|
| Tuition | 25,390 | 62,732 |
| Fees | 3,504 | 4,186 |
| Subtotal | 28,894 | 66,918 |
| Additional Categories | 19,012 | 19,012 to 20,292 |
| Total | 47,906 | 85,930 to 87,210 |
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Interesting, I thought schools such as GA Tech were trying to diversify gender wise. Guess I was wrong. Hurts my chances a little bit for CMU but not that much, doesn’t impact my decisions.
Almost everybody has to deal with the reality of finances and how that affects their choices. That is reflected in everything from the clothes that we buy, the cars that we drive, the houses we live in, the vacations we go on, and yes, the colleges that we attend. Even if someone’s dream is to have Versace clothes, with a Lamborghini, a multi-million dollar abode, and luxury vacations, people still thoroughly enjoy and have fun with their thrifted clothes, sportier economy cars, a place that fits their personality, and any kind of a vacation, including a staycation. It is not the outward “worth” of an item but what we take out of every experience. Essentially, it’s our attitude that will determine whether we are happy with what we get. After all, there are people who might be unhappy that they can “only” afford Ralph Lauren clothes and a BMW instead of a Lambo, and a 3500sf house instead of a 7500sf house, etc, when others would be ecstatic to have what the others can “only” have. It’s all a matter of perspective and attitude.
Okay, that seemed awfully preachy, but all of your hard work has been paying off for you. It’s gotten you a tutoring job that you really like. It’s gotten you interesting internships. It’s helped keep you fit (and surely also reduced some of your stress levels). It’s given you discipline and study skills that will prove valuable no matter where you go. It’s given you joy of being on the stage and singing and is something you hope to continue. So whether all of these things you’ve done lead you to CMU/Duke/wherever or they lead you to VA Tech or if they lead you to your local community college, you still have all of these positive experiences and strengths that you will take with you for the rest of your life. And frankly, that’s pretty amazing.
So, moving on to possible colleges with a $25k budget…You may want to consider U. of Louisville. Its Speed engineering school is well-regarded and has a strong hands-on focus. It’s also trying to attract more out-of-state students like yourself.
If you live in one of these counties, then you’d be eligible for $16k in merit from U. of Louisville. If you’re not from one of those counties, then it would be $15k.
Select Virginia Counties
- Alexandria City
- Arlington
- Clarke
- Culpeper
- Fairfax
- Fairfax City
- Fall Church City
- Fauquier
- Fredrick
- Loudoun
- Manassas City
- Manassas Park City
- Prince William
- Stafford
So what does that mean in terms of costs? $24-25k for tuition, room & board.
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Hugs to you. Please understand you are not alone. The reality is many kids who worked hard to earn high stats and have amazing ECs must make trade offs due to financial constraints.
You are embarking into adulthood and it is important to master the ability to make pragmatic decisions that will best help you to realize your goals. It doesn’t mean it’s easy, and it’s entirely normal to experience a moment of grieving for unrealistic dreams.
You sound like an amazing kid who will have wonderful opportunities due to your hard work. Concentrate on that. 
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Thank you so much, very kind of you. Everyone in this thread has been so sweet, had no clue this would become a therapy session but I’m not complaining.
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So, takeaway is to swap out Cornell and Penn State. Those both make sense- thank you. Multiple people I know got into Cornell but ended up going to UVA/GA Tech because Cornell FA sucks.
In terms of the Olin matchup, part of the attraction of Cooper is the half tuition scholarship on admission and the location. Not sure I’ll want to switch that out.
@DramaMama2021 - I would also argue that kids like yours (who excelled and now is on a full ride) and @nathanhurts hard work has paid off. Mine as well - many schools have thrown money at them - and it gave them choices since like @nathanhurts parents, I limited my kids budget wise as a full pay parent (hence they couldn’t apply to Cornell, Gtown, etc.)
If @nathanhurts had a 3.3 and a 1200, he wouldn’t have near the amount of schools considering him or and he doesn’t realize it yet, throwing money at him. He just has to open his mind.
So the hard work has paid off handsomely - especially when your parents are limiting your budget.
Well done to you - you have options - and not everyone does. You just have to be open to exploring them - maybe a Delaware or UMASS vs. a Penn State, etc.
There’s many a thread where someone is heading off to school but realizes they are thousands short (there’s one right now in fact) or they can only get into full pay but can’t afford or has to drop out due to finances after a few years.
You have MANY options to stay within your parents rules - and that’s because of what you’ve accomplished. Not everyone would have these options.
Schools don’t throw money at everyone - but many good schools will throw money at you!!!
Good luck.
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I didn’t specify which schools do and which ones don’t. That would be something you could easily search though. It is getting better, but schools doing like MIT is for example where 5% of males get in and 15% of females do is not the general rule out there. Interestingly, it’s the opposite at Brown. It’s an easier admit for males.
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The reality also is, especially in engineering, that the trade offs don’t impact long term success. A student that has the stats to be competitive at “top” schools, but is locked out due to finances is statistically just as likely to be successful if they matriculate at a “lesser” school.
I would go on and argue that what we bill as “top” and “lower tier” is really just all smoke and mirrors for engineering. There are a LOT of really good engineering programs out there.
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It doesn’t stink - it’s need based only.
So I talked to Cornell - because my daughter wanted to apply. It’s three years ago - but their exact quote to me was any family with a million dollars in assets won’t qualify for aid - anywhere.
Now all schools calculate that differently - some include home equity, some don’t.
I wouldn’t necessarily say it sucks because they are paying in full for some kids. I would say - kids getting no or little money are determined to have no need or little need. If you’re against giving to some but not others, then add schools (and there are many) that pay, not on need, but on stats. You have a certain GPA and SAT and you know up front the merit aid - then everyone is equal. That’s why the schools I listed have so many applicants - kids earn based on their accomplishments and they know the amount even before applying.
If you’ve been born into a family that could truly afford life - I wouldn’t complain. Others can’t - and these colleges choose to help them. It’s their right. But for those who can afford their schools, they want the families to invest in you. You have a choice - if you don’t like their ways or costs, you simply don’t bother with your time and effort. It’s really not that hard a choice to make.
Here’s another anecdote - my daughter got into W&L and in my income range, 88% got a $38K grant. My daughter got nothing. I asked why. They said - because you have more than average assets. I asked what’s that - and they said 2x salary. So I got no money because my assets were more than $500K - which isn’t a lot - especially for a school that costs $350K.
You have the wrong perspective my friend - and frankly, it doesn’t matter - because the schools get to decide how to spend their money.
I can’t tell you how to plan your list - until after you re-engage your parents.
You gave a # up top and now contradict your own #.
So you need to ask your parents - is my budget $25K - in which case we blow out most the list and no, it’s not the end of the world.
Or is my budget $48K - the UVA COA - or $52K because I need to buy health insurance.
I can’t give you school list guidance until then. In my original response, I gave you school list guidance on $25K - because that’s what you listed.
PS - I didn’t say to switch out Cooper. I just asked if Olin might be another similar to look at. They also get 1/2 scholarships - although it looks like COA would be over $50K.
Yes, they do. They don’t offer merit aid.
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Yes - I type too fast. Sorry - i’ll go edit. Thanks for catching.
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Not sure if I’m misinterpreting this, but it feels oddly like a callout. My budget contradicts because my parents have been cryptic about it, I should have outlined that better in the initial post. That’s on me of course.
I’ll get the NPCs done when I can, definitely been told to do them enough times in this thread.
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Thank you for the kind words about my kid.
For OP @nathanhurts i want to stress that my kid made adjustments to her application list based on our financial constraints. She has med school as her goal and we gave her a budget to apply across 8 years, rather than 4. We strongly discouraged using the full budget for a private undergrad (we were full pay) so that we could help pay for med school.
So while her stats put her in reach of Ivies, she removed them from her list. She concentrated on in-state options, lower tier LACs and competitive merit schools. Admittedly, she left one school on her list that doesn’t offer merit aid in case she changed her mind about med school. She was accepted but turned down as her goals had not changed.
As @eyemgh pointed out, since you’re interested in engineering you have so many options!!! ABET accreditation is the most important criteria. Similar to what we told our kid… one can get the med prerequisites almost anywhere.
I wasn’t going to go into this detail about our anecdotal personal situation, but I wanted to make it very clear to you many families understand the trade-offs.
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Yes - that’s what I’m saying -
Your list will be completely different at $25K - which is what you posted - vs. $49K.
So while your parents have been cryptic or opaque, sit down with them and do three things:
1… Show them UVA cost of attendance - with and without health insurance (another $3900) - are they covering this? $47,906 for this year so will be more for you.
Start with that - if they say - no - then go to #2
-
OK - you’re not covering COA - here is the tuition $25,390. Are you only covering this?
-
With them or only them, get the NPC filled out for a Cornell or CMU - and get the cost. And then ask - are you covering this? They may not want you to know their financial situation - and they know their #s - so it’s important they do this…whether you watch is up to them.
Basically, without a budget, you can’t make any true decisions.
So it’s good you started the conversation - but now you know in order to truly have a conversations and solid list, you have to hit the most important qualifier first - which is money.
Thanks
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Seems to be the thing to do. Thanks for your help!
Very pleasantly surprised with the sheer amount of help I’m getting here.
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@nathanhurts please don’t take any advice as a personal affront. Everyone here has your best interests in mind, and sometimes reality hurts to hear. I have been on the receiving end just like you are. After taking a minute to breathe and digest it, I realized the advice is sound, and honestly it took that piece of stress out of my daughter’s search. We reworked her list, ran the NPCs, and we’re in a happy place right now.
The advice to clarify your budget is SOLID. You definitely don’t want to get into a college you love and then have your parents see the cost (don’t forget that includes tuition + room and board + travel to/from + books/fees) and say they won’t pay that much.
Best of luck! You’ll find a great school(s).
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Just an FYI, none of the football players at these schools are just there to play football. I would bet that most of them are engineers.
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