<p>Thumper1–that’s true. I was just trying to give some perspective on some of the populations of these schools. Of course not all Ivy students are like that, but those are the kids that are applying. </p>
<p>As I said in my response, a school will admit you if you stand out from the crowd and they feel you have something to offer, which usually means that you have something unique that you are offering. That could just be a great essay, a great group they started, etc.</p>
<p>OP…again I ask…what sort of “music” does your son want to minor in? That could make a huge difference in the schools he considers. If he wants to minor in performance, he will not be able to do so at Yale. Their performance music programs are masters only.</p>
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<p>You said upthread that a “prestigious name carries a lot of weight.” Yet if I am reading you correctly, you and your spouse are Indiana University grads - and you’ve been successful enough economically that you can afford to send your kid to a $55,000/year college full-pay. (Good for you!) I think your own success coming out of Indiana should help keep you grounded so you don’t fall prey to the common misperception that success can only be had out of a handful of schools.</p>
<p>Does your son have a preference for larger vs smaller, campuses with an active sporting / athletic life, urban / suburban / rural? Does he like an atmosphere that is more laid back or more intense? Does he have a particular part of the country he might see himself in? Does he want a school that is highly active politically or not highly active politically? These are some of the questions to begin asking. When he thinks of a “good school,” what defines “good school”? Think beyond the label Ivy League when answering this one.</p>
<p>not performance. He attended several international competitions and competed with kids from China, Korea and knew immediately he doesn’t have much chance to become a performing musician. His first choice of major is mathematics.</p>
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<p>bcgirl - I think that’s irresponsible to suggest to this family that Dartmouth and Cornell are “good fits if not definites.” No school at this level of selectivity is a definite for anybody at all.</p>
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<p>I believe at Yale that these are masters courses of study. And I’m also not sure anyone can “minor” in them at Yale.</p>
<p>I believe Princeton does have composition for undergrads. </p>
<p>Has your son considered Oberlin?</p>
<p>Took the words out of my mouth, thumper - I was going to suggest Oberlin, too.</p>
<p>I thought about Oberlin, too, but again we know nothing about this student except that he plays piano (very well) and gets great grades and test scores and is regionally tilting toward the NE (as of now). Maybe Rochester?? I’m also not sure if non conservatory kids at Oberlin have access to teachers, performance, etc. I’m sure someone will chime in on that or it’s easily searchable.</p>
<p>At Oberlin or Bard, he can do a double degree program (BM/BA) and cover all of his interests. Tufts also has a double degree (BA/BM) w/New England Conservatory. Other schools have BA/MM’s for music majors, but that does not seem to be what this family wants.</p>
<p>I can say with certainty that the Harvard student body is not some sort of super race. There are all kinds of people there: that is the point of admissions, honestly, to create an interesting mix. So it really isn’t so much about the individual as much as how the individual contributes to that mix. And many are immature, or narrowly focused, or unmotivated, or depressed, or whatever else you find anywhere else.</p>
<p>I don’t understand this family’s values, though they should probably be respected. I don’t think a young person should give up on music just because there are superior musicians in international competitions. Music isn’t about winning competitions. Sure, technique is important, but music is so much more, and there are so many ways to live a life in or with music. And he is still young: lots of things could happen.</p>
<p>Yale does have a music major, but it is a BA not a BM, and not a performance degree (though students do play in some classes, and there is a chamber music class, for instance). Same with Harvard (though a composer can do a composition for a thesis). These schools have theory, music history, score analysis, composition, conducting, musicology and ethnomusicology courses. I cannot say much about Princeton or Cornell: I have no personal knowledge.</p>
<p>People often think of Yale because of the Yale School of Music, which is a grad program. There seem to be pros and cons for an undergrad, with the SOM there. Was the summer camp affiliated with the college or the SOM?</p>
<p>Anyway, and I am rambling, but the music seems to be the most relevant part of this student’s resume, in terms of admissions. I hope that he is enjoying music in and of itself, and not just resume building for admissions. If he really loves piano, I would suggest a school where he could do performance plus history or math, and there are schools where that could be possible. Again, Oberlin and Bard stand out, but there are others.</p>
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<p>That’s wonderful. (Seriously) Just understand that being changed musically is the important experience he took away from that summer. And he could use that wonderful experience as a launching pad to apply to many schools & programs where he might get a chance to perform often, and to continue to be inspired. Yale, as wonderful as it is, has no monopoly on that. :)</p>
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<p>Weight for what? Employment? And what jobs in particular? When one is looking at college choices, and being concerned with employment outcomes at the same time, it’s good to look at possible specific or general career paths that might develop from a major, double major, etc. I mean, for example, a student can graduate with a non-arts degree from an arts college, without any intention of working in the arts after graduation. In such a case, a degree from a “prestigious” arts college will not be of much use if a different field is ultimately pursued.</p>
<p>“Weight” is often more attached to the field of study at a school than the school itself. There are non-Ivies that have particularly well-received programs in the world of employment. Depends on the field. </p>
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<p>Fabulous. Especially the part about the full merit scholarship, which could equal or surpass any supposed gap in starting salary between a graduate of Harvard, Yale, or Princeton, and a graduate of Maryland U – if there is any gap.</p>
<p>What I mean by that is that entry-level salaries are pretty universal, as you may know, but it bears repeating here. My Ivy-grad daughter and her (different) Ivy-grad friend were given entry level salaries that would be the same for any other graduate of any other university in this country. If you’re hinting that mere employability (not salary) can be contingent upon school name: maybe, maybe not. Again, depends on field of study, location of employment after graduation, and content of any recommendations/references from professors, if those are pertinent and allowed.</p>
<p>Since college admissions is new to you, speak to your school guidance counselor about developing a list that moves past Ivies.</p>
<p>Apply to Ivies, sure, but just as others are saying, find other schools that appeal as well.</p>
<p>My son was very interested in music. We read on the Williams web site they the school looks for musicians. It’s not an Ivy, but I would say it offers an Ivy caliber education. S was accepted and did play in the orchestra his entire time there. For other reasons too complicated for this thread, it was a very good fit for him. He chose over Brown and Cornell and Dartmouth. He didn’t apply to the other five Ivies. (He wasn’t accepted at Dartmouth but Williams would have been his top choice anyway.)</p>
<p>If you read websites you can get a feel for other schools that your son might like.</p>
<p>And I wouldn’t rule out MIT either. I’m sure they’d love a kid who loved history and music if he loved math and wanted to do their core.</p>
<p>Here are some schools you might research. Many of them were mentioned already.
Johns Hopkins
Carnegie Melon
Tufts
Georgetown
Stanford
Rice
U of Chicago</p>
<p>Less selective:
NYU
Boston University
Boston College
University of Southern CA
Vanderbllt
Northwestern
Emory
Brandeis
Here are some publics:
U of Michigan
U of Wisconsin
U of FL Gainesville
U of Texas Austin</p>
<p>Here are some smaller colleges:
Bowdoin
Williams
Wesleyan
Amherst
Grinnell
Oberlin
Colby
Bates</p>
<p>And this is just a beginning. Good luck!</p>
<p>We will check out Oberlin. Always thought it’s a conservatory, you get admitted, assigned to a primary teacher…</p>
<p>About values, there obviously is passion there, otherwise it would be hard for a teenager to sit alone and practice 3 hours every night, 8 hours per day on weekend and continously goes through the self correction motion. But he always has clear plans for future, major in math, get trained in logical thinking which eventually opens the door to many things, finance, economics, law… Along that process, if there is a college also helps keep his music training, that will definitely be a bonus. </p>
<p>This blog helps us manage our expectation. Thanks again. We will do more research this summer and try our best. I am now heading downstairs to listen to a “live” performance of Chopin Concerto #1 :)</p>
<p>fiveacres - What qualified your son to get a full merit scholarship at UMD before the application season? That sounds really good.</p>
<p>Ivies are a crapshoot. If your son likes anything outside of Ivies in the top 25, he has a very good chance. I think he can get into some Ivies but you can’t find out unless you apply to all of them.</p>
<p>Mythmom - I would nt put Northwestern and Vanderbilt in the second group of less selective.</p>
<p>Last time I checked Williams was number 1 on LACs?</p>
<p>Your son sounds terrific, fiveacres - and the really great thing is, there are SO many terrific places for you and your family to learn about … that you can rest assured that his success in life will be largely dependent on his own efforts, and he can find opportunities and an intelligent student body at so many places.</p>
<p>winning a math competition in the state of maryland.</p>
<p>fiveacres, you’re probably ahead of me in this, but naturally have him apply by November 1 to Indiana U, to qualify for the Hutton Honors College. </p>
<p>I really like the fact that your family is looking at options allied to math. There’s nothing wrong with liking merely theoretical math, and many students really need to satisfy that intellectual passion during their undergrad years, but we all need to think practically in these economically demanding times. In that respect, look at the allied majors, undergrad and grad, when you are making your plans – such as schools which have great econ/International Econ + finance courses. The reason I say that is that, regardless of what his next step after college will be, it saves time and improves success rates to get a feel for a practical math field before one graduates, so that one can focus graduate or certificate, or professional efforts, if that’s where one is additionally headed. One is helped by opportunities to explore that ahead of time.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned Rochester. I so love Rochester. And their music performance opportunties, as well as their opportunities to get inspired by the ‘surround’ of music there, might be important to him.</p>
<p>Yeah, some of my list was just as things occurred to me. I added Northwestern as an afterthought and probably put it on the wrong list.</p>
<p>I really didn’t mean anything by my categories.</p>
<p>Yes, Williams has that distinction, but I think those rankings are a bit silly. Don’t you? That’s not why S loved his time there. He graduates on Sunday.</p>
<p>Oberlin has a convervatory and a liberal arts school. So do BU, NYU and Northwestern.</p>
<p>He sounds like a really great kid.</p>
<p>Well, I wasn’t going to say it til epiphany’s post above, but if your son is interested in math with practical applications, he should check out the MMSS (Mathematical Methods in the Social Sciences) program at Northwestern. [MMSS</a>, Weinberg College of Arts & Sciences, Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/]MMSS”>http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/) </p>
<p>fiveacres, if you and your spouse went to school in Indiana, I’m a little surprised that you haven’t heard of some of the other schools beyond the Ivy League and MIT?</p>
<p>The rankings kind of fuel the madness in terms of the increasing number of applications. I am under the impression if Williams is number one in LACs, they must also have 10-20% admit rate or is it higher?</p>
<p>OP - Your son has fantastic credentials. But as you’ve read, there are MANY highly qualified students applying to the Ivies… so it becomes a bit of a crapshoot for all. By all means apply and hope for the best.</p>
<p>Also appreciate the fact that cost is not an issue. That allows you to widen the net for the much larger list of very high caliber schools too. Carnegie Mellon comes to mind as an example, but other parent have had good suggestions too. Hopefully the music teachers are giving some guidance since they know your son very well.</p>