<p>My list was just meant as a place to begin – not definitive at all.</p>
<p>And yes, the admit rate at Williams was 17% which is a whole lot better than 6 or 7.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, Oberlin has a college where a student could study math, history or music (BA in music). It also has a conservatory where students get a BM. Oberlin offers a 5 year double degree program that includes degrees from both the college and conservatory. Also, students can move from the college to conservatory, and vice versa. The downside is that music students in the college might have fewer opportunities due to the presence of the conservatory.</p>
<p>Bard also has a college and conservatory. I have heard that college music majors who are composers have quite a few opportunities there. I don’t know about performers. The important fact is that at Bard, all conservatory students are required to do a double degree program, which is five year program.</p>
<p>Since the son seems headed away from any performance major, these schools would probably not fit the bill, but in case anything changes…</p>
<p>We also know a very talented musician who is headed to Tufts to study physics. He has the option of doing the double degree program with New England Conservatory, but he is not starting out that way.</p>
<p>Ivies are really crapshoots. He should definitely apply, but remember that there are hordes of Asians apply with even better resumes</p>
<p>try looking at the following resources
[America’s</a> 25 New Elite ‘Ivies’ - Newsweek](<a href=“http://www.newsweek.com/id/39401]America’s”>America's 25 New Elite 'Ivies')
[50</a> Top Colleges](<a href=“http://50topcolleges.com/]50”>http://50topcolleges.com/)
[America’s</a> Best Colleges - Forbes.com](<a href=“Forbes List Directory”>Forbes List Directory)</p>
<p>Others have given you excellent advice about choosing schools for his application list. I’m going to address something else. </p>
<p>Why on earth did he take all of those SATIIs?</p>
<p>I don’t want to offend you, but it makes him look like the stereotypical Asian student who thinks that the road to “success”–determined by admission to any Ivy or similarly prestigious school, regardless of academic strengths or other fit factors–is paved with standardized test scores and competitions. Little or no genuine intellectual or artistic passion, lots of discipline. </p>
<p>As you have responded to questions, it sounds as if that is not actually the case with him. I think that once you and he have determined his list, you should be careful to pay attention to crafting an application that shows him as the passionate learner and musician he is. While discipline is certainly a good thing, the schools at which he is aiming are not interested in test-taking robots. His recommendations could go a long way towards establishing this, as well as his essays. (And speaking of recommendations, don’t hesitate to get one from someone who knows him well in his musical life. One or two recommendations in addition to the standard 2 teachers and a GC is fine, as long as they address different aspects of the student and the person really knows him.)</p>
<p>BTW, according to what one reads, there is a glut of Korean and Chinese music students who are extremely technically proficient but very much lacking in musicality. There has been discussion of that here in the past. Your son might go much further than the kids he met at competitions, in the long run. He should not be discouraged.</p>
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<p>Tee hee, no kidding. At a glance there’s 17 APs + or - on this resume too. I would have probably died of a heart attack if I had a teen that would put themselves through 17 APs and all those SAT IIs. And if I would have asked them to do anything like this they would be on milk cartons as missing children. OP consider yourself lucky in the dedicated kid department.</p>
<p>OP´s son definitely has the credential to consider HYP. It doesn´t sound like the parents believe HYP or bust, and that´s a healthy attitude. Out of those three, Princeton is more actively pursuing students with performing arts background, the reason is an alum donated $100mill+ few years back, [Princeton</a> To Receive Record Gift For the Arts - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE3D7123FF932A15752C0A9609C8B63]Princeton”>Princeton to Receive Record Gift for the Arts - The New York Times)</p>
<p>D2 visited Princeton this Spring, took a ballet class while she was there. She met with head of dance department, and was instructed on how to submit an art supplement. D2 said dancers she met were of high calibre. Princeton is know for math, physics, but with this donation they are pushing to beef up their performing arts. After th visit, D2 crossed out Princeton because she didn´t “feel it.” OP´s son should consider EA Princeton if he is interested. With his good stats, he probably could get into many top tier schools during the RD round.</p>
<p>It is interesting to see all who are concerned with narrow focus on Ivy? My own D. never wanted to be at Ivy, despite strong recommendations by conselor at HS as well as pre-med advisor at UG. But if one wants to and financial side is not concern why not? They do not care about money, then job compensation is irrelevant. OP stated clearly that they consider Ivy, and I believe the guy has reasonable chance. They have narrowed down choices, good for them! Not very many will be in their position.</p>
<p>fiveacres - Consolation has given you excellent advice in post 45. Please read it and take it to heart. The road to these schools is not through piling on scores. That is a common misperception. The road to the elite schools is about making yourself a compelling, interesting, unique human being that an adcom will react to by saying - gosh, I don’t want to miss out on this kid, he sounds like he’d really be an interesting roommate / participant in activities / addition to the community. The glut of high scores doesn’t say any of that. It connotes drudge and it connotes an attitude of “what I think impresses you is demonstration of my intellect as measured through scores,” which isn’t true.</p>
<p>You want a storyline to your kid. You want an application essay that if it were mixed in with other papers, someone would pick it up and say - That’s fiveacres’ son who wrote this, no one else could have written this. </p>
<p>Right now, you have a bright son - but you have the kiss of death if he’s “merely” a smart math / music student with great scores. Do something novel, interesting, unique. It matters not if it is award-winning. My kids got into top 20 schools based on (in my opinion) interesting essays that revealed their souls and on some extracurriculars that were interesting but not necessarily competitive / award-winning. </p>
<p>Good luck to you!</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP - I’d imagine the concern is for two reasons. If an Ivy isn’t the best fit, the child may not be as successful in college (and so afterwards) as if the child were at a very good school that’s a better fit. Princeton appears to have crushed the spirits of some of my very intelligent friends because the grade deflation makes them despair about their grades and future opportunities. On the other hand, I have friends at Princeton who are incredibly happy there and feel they got quite a bit out of their course of study.</p>
<p>Another, perhaps larger, concern is that the Ivies have such low acceptance rates that even for many of the top candidates, there’s no guarantee of admission at any of them. Most of the Ivies are now in single digits for admission rates. Numerous highly qualified candidates are rejected each year. The consensus here seems to be that it’s completely fine to consider the Ivies, so long as one considers schools that have higher acceptance rates at which the child would be happy.</p>
<p>The OP’s son sounds wonderful and could probably succeed anywhere, but I would be worried that his application would make him look like a cliche and therefore adcoms would not notice or remember him, or at least not get excited about him. I say this given the student fits a particular stereotype so closely, there are so many similar looking students, and even the the particular areas of interest, and focus on HYPs…oops, its YHP in this case. Wow that is different ;)</p>
<p>I’m not in a position to comment on odds or fit, but I have a question for those more knowledgeable on this forum: would this be a good case for an admission coach to handle? Given the family can probably afford it, I wonder if there is a way for them to hire an expert to help with his branding? Or if not an admissions coach, what could he or his family do that would highlight what makes him different, so he stands out from the pack? </p>
<p>It just seems he has all the necessarily components stats wise, but he may lack the ability at this point to stand out from the pack or come across as distinctive, memorable, and interesting. Not that he’s not in real life;I just meant when they are reading 10,000 applications it might be easy to see the stereotype and not the real person.</p>
<p>No one can predict whether HYPS will admit someone. However, to say that his application has no unique features would be inaccurate.</p>
<p>I dont know how many kids are out there who can claim to have won $ 13,000 in prize money from music competitions since I dont know a single such person. He also has won a full scholarship to attend any school in Maryland by winning a competition. So his awards section should look good?</p>
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<p>Just point of information: Princeton’s interest in dance (in particular) is hardly recent. They have been pushing in this direction for the last 6 years minimum. :)</p>
<p>The President of Princeton was interviewed 4 years ago when D1 was applying to colleges, and she specifically talked about this push. When D2 was there few months ago, they talked about it again. Princeton was never known for performing arts, especially when it’s compared to Yale, often a reputation is not built in few years. I think if you were ask most people about Princeton, they think about math and science, not performing arts. So I don’t think I was pointing out the obvious.</p>
<p>FYI - Cornell is getting out of dance, even though they have one of the best performings arts center right next to the collegetown.</p>
<p>The discussion of Yale and Princeton’s department does nothing to further what the OP really needs – which is …</p>
<p>1) Get off the HYP bandwagon (it’s easy to like HYP and it’s easy to put them on a college list, what’s not to like?) and explore a broader range of environments/ schools where the son could thrive
2) Help son explore what environment makes him tick - instead of assuming that Ivy = environment that will make him tick and non-Ivy = environment that won’t make him tick.
3) Help the son find passions and interests and ways of depicting himself that will portray him as more interesting and unique than Asian-kid-good-in-math-and-music.</p>
<p>I think OP and her son are looking at a broad range of schools. In reading few of OP’s posts on this thread, she sounds like a smart lady (knows HYPS are high reaches, nice to get, but there are other good schools). I don’t think we need to try to “educate her.”</p>
<p>Then why ask us to chance her kid to an Ivy school?</p>
<p>She is asking us to chance her kid, not to give her a lecture why it’s narrow minded to consider HYP. She is already stated that she is advising him to look at their state school. But it is CC, isn’t it? The minute someone talks about applying to top tier schools, I could count to 3 before someone comes on with a lecture about how narrow minded it is. At the sametime, each of those schools get 30,000+ applicants a year.</p>
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<p>I never said that you were “pointing out the obvious.” I have no idea where you got that. I brought up a “point of information.” 
I will say again, that this is not a “new” initiative. There may be an additional push more recently, but there was/had been a push at least since 2005. (All that was publicized at that time as well.) And specifically I am talking about the dance department. Arts departments are not built overnight, as I’m sure you know. Naturally it takes awhile. Terrific news about the recent donation.</p>
<p>And it’s hardly just Yale they’re competing with. I understand that Harvard boasts over 20 campus dance groups. (But I’m sure someone else will also helpfully correct me on that number. ;)) All these peer universities are obviously competitive with each other in specific areas of extracurriculars, as well as academics, to remain attractive.</p>
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<p>You mean of the kids at your highschool? How about the 10,000 applicants to HYP? I imagine there are TONS of ‘award winning’ musicians who belong to the math club and the quiz club and who have 150 volunteer hours at the senior’s home…who just happen to have an Asian last name. It’s a stereotype, reinforced by the tons of SAT IIs, almost perfect SAT, endless APs.</p>
<p>Everyone has a ‘unique feature’. The key is to actual be a unique person, one that stands out, sounds interesting, and would likely be memorable from the hordes and likely to contribute in a cool way on campus. I’m not saying he won’t get in, I’m just saying the only thing he can probably do to try to tip the scales at this point would be to escape looking like the asian stereotyped applicant to HYP lost in the masses.</p>