Chances at Penn/ Harvard/ Yale? ED/ EA?

Chance Me / Match Me!
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  • US citizen
  • State/Location of residency: Northeast
  • Type of high school : Private, nationally ranked top 10
  • Asian Male
  • Legacy Penn

**Intended Major: Business/ Economics

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores- 4.17, top 5% of the class, school doesn’t rank, SAT 1580 (790M/ 790V), 1st attempt, SAT II 800 Math, 780 Physics, 760 Chemistry

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.1
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.5

Coursework
All honors, High level math, highest level computer science Economics, Psychology, Capstone Economics
AP score 5 in B/C calculus, Macro Economics, Microeconomics, Computer Science

Awards
Cum Laude induction in junior yer
Community service award by the area rotary club

Extracurriculars
*(Include leadership, summer activities,
High level cellist- 10 years, performed aboard and at prestigious venue within US
Elected President of 2 large clubs in school including a community service club
Summer volunteer work at music camp last 2 summers, attending for 8 years every summer
Student prefect
Peer educator
acapella singer
Piano player- 8 years
Athletics-
2 Varsity letters for volleyball
JV team for soccer and basketball
3rd degree black belt TaeKwondo

Summer research at an Ivy League University

Essays/LORs/Other
Recommendation letters should be strong especially from the English teacher
Essay - Not written yet.

Cost Constraints / Budget
Not constrained

The above stats are for my son…He is trying to figure out if he should apply ED to Penn or EA to Harvard. At Penn, he would apply to Wharton…not dual degrees. Any advice/ match for early decision/ action? It would be great if he can continue to play at the college orchestra as he is quite passionate about playing his cello although does not want to major in music.

Although he has a strong resume in Economics …no direct experience on running or working at a business….something he wants to explore in future. Most experience and passion for volunteer/ community service work so far.

Highly analytical and passionate about what captures his imagination. Does best when he is led by his own passion/ thought process not by conforming….

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Since your son wants to major in business and since he has legacy status at Penn, ED to Wharton appears to be the obvious course of action to take.

Is there a concern that Penn-Wharton is less prestigious than Yale or Harvard ? If so, such concern is misplaced as Penn-Wharton is the best business school in the country and, probably, in the world.

In my opinion, it would be a mistake to take Penn-Wharton for granted and a mistake thinking that Harvard or Yale is more prestigious than Penn-Wharton.

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Thank you for your input! Have no concerns about UPenn Wharton being any less prestigious than Harvard or Yale. Being an independent thinker…he is considering all options and does not want to just follow his dad’s or sister’s footsteps.

UPenn is highly selective as well as Harvard and Yale. I am not sure if his resume speaks of a match with one and mismatch with another? Not sure if his emphasis on community service vs business related activities ( such as business clubs etc) puts him at a disadvantage for Wharton……?

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I may be wrong, but my understanding is that legacy status at Penn only impacts the ED round.

I understand the temptation to apply EA to Harvard because it’s Harvard & because it is non-binding. But, it seems reasonable that your son’s chances at Penn-Wharton would be higher than typical in the ED round due to legacy status combined with superior qualifications. But, what if Harvard does not accept your son in the EA round ? Seems like a potentially huge opportunity cost.

P.S. I disagree that business ECs are necessary for strong admission chance at Wharton as an undergraduate. Wharton will look for proven math skills & abilities, not business related clubs or activities in your son’s case.

P.P.S. Penn-Wharton will want evidence of leadership and community involvement but not business ECs for undergrad.

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Wharton seems out of reach with no business ECs, is he not interested in Econ in Arts and Sciences? Seems a shame to give up the legacy bump, if Penn A&S would be appealing.

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I think your son will likely be admitted to Penn if he applies ED to maximize the legacy boost. He has stellar grades and test scores and his ECs show a commitment to service which Penn loves. I don’t think a lack of business ECs will hurt him either. He will need to write a compelling essay that shows the AOs why he’s passionate about Penn aside from being a legacy.

I believe he’s a strong candidate for RD too, but his odds of admission decrease without the legacy boost. If he likes both Harvard and Penn equally, then it’s down to game theory and you’ll have to decide which school is more likely to admit him.

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Thank you! That’s very encouraging to hear!

I think he can really do wonders if there is something that triggers his imagination….Hopefully he will find his place!

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Applying to CAS is also possible…However I think, he eventually wants to start something of his own….Business education would be quite helpful.

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Well put @mountainsoul about using Game Theory! This is what what I should tell him :slight_smile: Frankly speaking….City of Philadelphia scares me a bit……but that would be a crazy reason to want to influence his EA/ ED choice!

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I understand that at first glance Philadelphia can raise concerns about crime, but it isn’t as bad as it may appear. Penn students know where to go & which areas of the city to avoid. Same is true for Chicago & most other cities.

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Clearly did not impact his Dad’s education.

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@skieurope, you are right…but having lived in West Philly for some time in late 90s leaves you with some bad memories. I know things have improved quite a lot…still a mom worries….

Any way…all that comes later……if he gets in….For now I just need to encourage him to do what he wants….first step to adulthood…making your choices and owning them.

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Street crime is down a lot since the late ‘90s even with he recent surge. White collar crime is up.

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Why ED? I realize he has the legacy thing at Penn, but if he is that torn, apply RD to all and just take time to make this college decision.

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Because the odds at both Penn & Harvard are not favorable for RD round applicants & because it seems that OP’s son would be happy at either school.

The ED boost is too much to give up in this situation in my opinion. Penn-Wharton is as prestigious & desirable as it gets for one interested in studying business or economics.

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Agree with @Publisher. If OP’s son is indifferent as to Penn-Wharton and Harvard, I’d make use of the ED and legacy bumps. My understanding is that the legacy bump only applies to ED. While ED Penn-Wharton is not a sure thing, REA at Harvard is a lottery for almost all non ALDC ORM’s. While OP’s son would be competitive, don’t see any national level awards or achievements that would distinguish him from thousands of other equally excellent applicants.

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@BKSquared true. He did qualify for national level math competition in middle school, but in high school he has been more focused on branching out than competing in his strong areas. There are, of course, many applicants with very strong resumes….even with ED and even with legacy his chances would be 1 in 4 at best, I think.

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He has a strong chance at Penn only if applying ED. But as with others, I struggle to connect the dots between your son’s ECs and Wharton. Need to make this link more clear. Consider getting a consultant to help package your son.

Also tap into the high school college counselor. They will give you an honest assessment of his chances. A top 10 HS will have good connections with the Penn admissions office. What does Naviance/SCOIR say?

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Private Schools having a direct connection with admission offices is probably a thing of the past. What we are told now is that……any ivies are a reach or extreme reach for all ….For my son, they say all 3 are a reach (thankfully not an extreme reach, which is a polite way of saying don’t bother …or try at your own peril…if you really want to waste your chance😁). Based on Naviance …he should have a fair shot….of course there is also a good chance he won’t get in. Because many from private schools with similar SATs and GPAs also don’t.

I am worried about no business ECs on his resume….but knowing my kid…He is very independent….and absolutely doesn’t want to do anything for the sake of resume……On the other hand he is also the kind who has the ability to do something different if it captures his imagination, do what it takes …If he believes in something …he can make others believe in it too (For example, I just found out a couple of days back that he raised more than 20k USD for this fund that makes private school more affordable for families who need support just by talking to some of his very well off friends who pitched in to the fund)….it is hard to explain….I don’t know if all this will come through in his application……but knowing him ….I have no doubts a business education will be a good fit for him.

I remember in middle school when they first tried naviance……his job match was ….being CEO of a company. We were like…YEAH RIGHT! But then again….he is really as crazy as some of them! :joy:

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Make sure he gets that volunteer fundraising on his app. The thing you can’t see on Naviance is what school (wharton, SEAS, etc.) an applicant applied to.

He can also get an excellent business education at schools that would be safeties for him, such as IU, Miami Ohio, and Dayton. Point being, he should have a balanced college list with some reaches, a handful of matches, and an affordable safety or two. At the schools where the major would be econ (Yale, Harvard)…what if he finds he doesn’t like econ?

It’s relatively easy to identify the reaches, and takes more time and effort to identify matches and safeties that high stats students would like to attend…and statistically speaking they are most likely to be attending a match or safety come Fall 2022.

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