Chances for Goldman Sachs???

Career Opportunities & Internships Investment Banking
1

<p>I am a 2007 BA grad from one of the top institutions in the US. For the past two years, I have not been much beside traveling the world and investing in my private time. In the summer of 2007, I started with 70,000 dollars. At the end of 2008, my portfolio is now at 270,000 dollars. During my time, I have been studying intensively both fundamental and technical analysis. I feel that I have a strong grasp of both approaches in my investment.</p>

<p>My GPA coming out of college is not strong at all -- @ 3.23. In college, I did not do any extracurricular activities nor demonstrate any leadership by participating in clubs and fraternities. However, I def feel that finance is def something for me -- not the slave job at the desk but the strategy part of the job. </p>

<p>At some point in the future, I want to start a private capital investment fund on my own or with other people. I feel that the work experience and connection at GS will be invaluable.</p>

<p>So, here is my main question:
What are my chances at GS? If so, what divisions and what positions are best suited for me?</p>

2

<p>So you made $200,000/yr before commissions</p>

<p>Why work for $50k a year haha. I would look into prop trading for you, or just keep doin your thing. S&T would be the dept youd probably work in. 3.23 gpa is very low; what school are you at</p>

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<p>Nah, that is about 100 k/yr after tax and commission.</p>

<p>Why does gpa matter that much when I have proven that I am more efficient than 95% of the big fish on WS for the past two years? As for school, I ended up going to Columbia University, where I did nothing with my education except sleeping during the day, watching youtube clips at night, and missing classes. It sucks that I was a major bum in college.</p>

<p>The only reason that I want some exposure to WS is that I need to know the dynamics of WS and its culture. A year or two would def be enough for me.</p>

<p>Does anyone have a good idea about my chances here? Thanks</p>

4

<p>none if you have no family connections there...no one cares about skill in banking...its all about the name of ur school, what you know and maybe a little bit of academic ability...and most importantly your ability to kiss ass</p>

5

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<p>Nah, that is about 100 k/yr after tax and commission.</p>

<p>Why does gpa matter that much when I have proven that I am more efficient than 95% of the big fish on WS for the past two years? As for school, I ended up going to Columbia University, where I did nothing with my education except sleeping during the day, watching youtube clips at night, and missing classes. It sucks that I was a major bum in college.</p>

<p>The only reason that I want some exposure to WS is that I need to know the dynamics of WS and its culture. A year or two would def be enough for me.</p>

<p>Does anyone have a good idea about my chances here? Thanks

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<p>I'll tell you about the culture, I spent a summer hanging with investment bankers in NYC while interning. Its pretty much, "I make 500k per year, you're an intern, you dont get to pay for **** because you're ****ing broke." Although, my closest friends are bankers, they are very arrogant. That's the culture, best of the best, cream of the crop, and that's why I love em.</p>

<p>Just imagine playing russian roulette(spin the bottle) with the dinner/drink bill every night. My boss used to be like, "its not about what your job title is, its about how much money you make."</p>

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<p>GPA will matter for getting an interview and nothing else. If you can get that far, it sounds like you're reasonably skilled and competent (or lucky!) so you'll probably have a decent chance. Apply to the securities or investment management divisions - you'd probably hate banking.</p>

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<p>0 chance.</p>

<p>You went to college and admittedly did nothing there (bad gpa, no activities, etc.). You then graduated and did nothing. This isn't a job (or firm) for someone who (on paper) has no initiative.</p>

<p>I'd suggest looking at a small/boutique firm with wealth management operations. It will give you good exposure to the field (and you can actually see if that's what you want to do), you can network, and you can actually show some initiative. It sounds like you're looking at GS to put the name on your resume rather than to learn/accomplish something.</p>

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<p>I'm going to have to agree with the poster above. A 3.23 is not the cream of the crop that Wall Street is looking for, especially not GS. </p>

<p>I don't see how you could have made 200k during the financial crisis except by taking heavy short positions. A technical analysis would not have led you to do that; luck maybe</p>

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<p>I want to know how your portfolio coming out of college was 70000. And I agree with astonmartin and truthcomesout. Gonna be hard for you....</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'd suggest looking at a small/boutique firm with wealth management operations. It will give you good exposure to the field (and you can actually see if that's what you want to do), you can network, and you can actually show some initiative. It sounds like you're looking at GS to put the name on your resume rather than to learn/accomplish something.

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<p>Wealth management may be a good way to go. Especially in NYC, as your target client base will be wealthy bankers. Maybe build a strong network of senior traders and when one of em goes to start a hedgefund you can measle your way in.</p>

<p>One of the first things that my vp said to me coming into my internship last summer was, "if you've got contacts, you can go anywhere." and nyc is the place to make those crucial banking contacts. Its just a matter of making the right contacts. So many students have a bottom down approach to networking. They seek to network with peers when they should be networking with senior vps and executives.</p>

<p>Would you rather be managing a rolodex of 100 analysts or 10 senior vps?</p>

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<p>WOW, some people here are really harsh on me.</p>

<p>Let me make my case clear. My college career in Columbia is not as lackluster as I had made it out to be. I did do something extracurricular activities, and took some leadership positions. In my opinion, all of those activities and positions are fluff pieces that are virtually worthless to me and probably to my future employers. There will probably be quite a few people in elite institutions who would admit to these sentiments behind the curtain.</p>

<p>For your information, I did get some decent job after college. But, is it my fault that the company went bankrupt shortly? Afterward, through some research about the fundamentals of our economy, I realized that this economy is screwed for the next 3-4 years. Then, I decided to travel across Europe, Africa, and Asia and do some part-time teachings as voluntary work. In the meantime, I made small money through my investment to pay for my expenses. After the market failed to break some technical resistance points in the summer of 2008, I decided to load up on my short positions on financial companies and make up about $40-60 K playing the technical resistance and support points for short entries and covered targets.</p>

<p>To truthcomesout, I could care less if it is GS, MS, C, BAC, MER, or any other dog on Wall Street. The only reason why I had mentioned GS because it has the strongest likelihood of coming out of this crisis alive, and without being partially nationalized. You seem to be one of those analysts who thinks that they are doing something worthwhile in their 10-12 hours/day and 6 days/week job. In fact, they probably know nothing about the dynamics and core business of the sector that they are covering on. Otherwise, their clients would not have lost 60-80% of their portfolios in the past year, while these same fools kept advising those poor people to average down. Quite contrary to your accusation, I believed that there is much to learn in any prestigious institution. For anyone, the key is to realize that there will always going to be someone who is greater than you. On the other hand, there is nothing to accomplish at GS. If you are someone who has been with the same i-bank for the past 10-20 years, you may commend yourself for being an obedient puppy. In my opinion, you are nothing more than an incompetent fool who needs his master to survive. Without the i-banking company, your life and value would be worthless. If you are truly talented, you would learn as much as possible and start something on your own in 2-3 years. Please spare me the lecture about doing something worthwhile at any of these i-banks. Let me make my point clear to me: they do not give a damn about your belief, thought, or passion.</p>

<p>To astonmartinDBS, how do you define "the cream of the crop"? Do you based that on pure IQ scores, EQ scores, or what? Most people out there seem to based this definition on GPA. If you are someone with a 3.8-4.0 GPA, you can go out in the real world and brag about it. You can call yourself a genius for all I care. In my opinion, a high GPA score does not indicate one's true intelligence. It only indicates to employers that you can do an entry level job to an proficient level, so that you won't embarrass the company. College does not improve your productivity; it only certifies that your intelligence is in the 51% quartile or higher.</p>

<p>Also, who said that I made money solely on fundamental or technical analysis? It is based on the fact that I have a solid trading strategy that I can rely on through good and bad times. The strategy does not keep me from losing money. In fact, the strategy's purpose is to put me in a position to maximize my profit and minimize my losses. I won't go in details to how that system works here. I will only say that it works best in a volatile market.</p>

<p>JPNguyen, you make it sounds like these senior VPS are interested in speaking to chumps. In fact, if you have nothing to offer to them, your chances of networking with these people are next to nothing. You may think that a 3.8-4.0 GPA is enough to entice their attention. I would beg to differ. In fact, three years ago, I had met alumni from Columbia who are holding senior positions in JPM, GS, and MS. Most of these folks' academic records are not as impressive as you think. Therefore, unless you have done something exceptional, they only pretend to notice your presence because of politeness.</p>

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<p>S+T experience will not impress IB, so I'd advise you to apply S+T or GSAM. Also, make sure to indicate the size of your personal account and your Sharpe ratio. Sharpe ratios are impressive, not returns.</p>

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<p>0 chance. I’ll be at Goldman this summer. Way to argue after asking for advice.</p>

<p>I also know a guy from Bowling State who had a 2.9 and is a partner at JP. He’s 43 years old. What’s your point? Look at your competition and look at the current environment. No offense but you sound like a huge tool.</p>

14

<p>its definitely possible. just get some networking done. I know someone who got hired at goldman this summer whose GPA was around your range but he had great networking.</p>

15

<p>lfecollegeguy,</p>

<p>That is big talk coming from some loser who is accepted as an intern. For your information, I am up 55 K at the end of Feb for 2009. For this month, I am up another 10 K. That is a total of 65 K for the year 2009. That is a hell lot better than you busting your ass and trying to prove your worthiness. </p>

<p>Sorry, greed is good in the corporate world. Regardless of your belief, you are pretty much worthless right now.</p>

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<p>You’re the huge tool here, kid – I’m embarrassed to know that you’re going to be one of my peers this summer. I never knew landing an internship with Goldman Sachs “Janitorial Services” could make someone so cocky.</p>

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<p>I think for firms it’s just a safer way to play GPA and schools and whatever else they rely their hiring standards on. I mean it’s obvious you’ve “prove” yourself and your capabilities as you say right? But let’s remember, your time frame of proving yourself is only a few years at best. Just say you are making a killing in this market shorting everything and getting rich…but does that make you that much better than everyone else? Just having a good year or two or three doesn’t mean you’re necessarily better than the next guy right? So I think that what these people are saying is that GS and any other company for that better just goes with what has proven to work for their system. Do they miss out on the occasional diamond in the rough which you might be? Of course…but they are also trying to maximize their gains and minimize their losses imo. And fyi, I don’t really know too much about investment banks per se, just what my friends tell me. But looking at it from any company’s point of view, it’s easy to go the safer route and miss out on the occasional diamond isn’t it? And with all the money you’re making, just find some GS guy who will mentor you and open up your own firm anyway haha.</p>

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<p>Your best way in to any firm right now is to network. While you do have impressive returns, as previous posters have said, a lot of getting your foot in the door is about either knowing someone or having a top GPA (at least 3.5). Trust me, I don’t think 3.2 is terrible… I know people on Wall Street with 2.2’s, but the played their connections. Goldman may be difficult, considering they don’t even give many interns full time offers, but my impression is that you are using Goldman more as an example of a top place you’d want to work?</p>

<p>If I were you start cold calling people in Columbia’s alumni database, or email some of those people you mentioned you met a year or two ago. I would also apply to some prop trading firms like DE Shaw, Jane Street, Optiver etc who basically will hire you if they think you are smart. It seems as though you would be happiest doing trading rather than making pitch books for 100 hrs/week in IB.</p>

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<p>Why do you even need a job? You seem to be doing better than any employed person I know, $65K in less than 3 months !!</p>

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<p>He wants to set up a fund later down the road. You need connections for that sort of thing. GSAM sounds good. Just curious, what did you major in at Columbia? Something quanty?</p>