<p>Ok here is an Updated list.</p>
<p>Reaches-
Princeton University
Columbia University
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill</p>
<p>Matches-
Vanderbilt University
University of Michigan
Dartmouth College
Williams College</p>
<p>Safeties-
CUNY Hunter College
SUNY Binghampton</p>
<p>Maybe Brown if I have time?</p>
<p>Does anyone else think that maybe Williams is in the reach rather than match category?</p>
<p>The average accepted students has an 89.83 gpa and a 1265 sat (which a 35 act is much better than).</p>
<p>collegehopeful:</p>
<p>Do not put too much weight on GPAs and SAT scores. Adcoms don't. If you look at the list of acceptances and rejections at various colleges on your list, you will see many with lower stats who got in and many with higher stats who did not.
Some who got in may have had extrinsic hooks, by which I mean being a rich donor's kid, a legacy, a faculty brat, a URM; some may have had intrinsic hooks such as extraordinary artistic talent, athletic prowess or academic achievement (e.g a gold medalist in an international academic competition, making it to the nationals in some artistic competition, and so forth).<br>
Right now, what you present to us is the profile of a great but not stellar student who is unable to convey to us--and thus to adcoms--any deep interest or commitment. Even the research that is supposed to yield a publication, you describe to us in such terms as to make us think your role in it is insignificant and you are not learning much from it. This may be totally misleading a picture, but that's the one you are presenting us. If I were an adcom, I'd wonder what you would have to contribute to the college community. With that in mind, Dartmouth and Williams are both reaches.
Forget about comparing yourself to other students. There's nothing you can do about it. Concentrate now on making yourself sound like the most attractive possible student to the adcoms of the colleges you are considering.</p>
<p>Wise words from marite, college.</p>
<p>Word of thumb for elite high school students is that their stats must match the 75th percentile of the school--not the 'average' 50th percentile. The average takes into account athletes etc.</p>
<p>I don't know you, college, but I feel you aren't listening to your GC. I cannot believe a BS GC told you that Dartmouth is a 'match' for you. I know those elite school GCs. They are very careful about what they say. If Dartmouth was a match, then it follows that he/she owuld say that Princeton would be a doable reach for you. AS far as I can tell, the GC said no such thing.</p>
<p>Be happy with the fact that BS thinks you might have a shot at Dartmouth. Start researching Dartmouth and find out what sort of student they look for. Start working on your essays.</p>
<p>Use CC as a sounding board. </p>
<p>I believe you've misuderstood the term 'match' and I believe you may have misunderstood your GC. My guess is that he/she told you that Dartmouth is a doable reach for you. Can you email him/her for clarification?</p>
<p>No she circled the ones that were matches and on that list were Binghampton and UMaryland too.
Also this is just an forum so I am not exactly describing everything the way they could. Thats what my resume will do.</p>
<p>Collegehopeful - I have known gifted HS students who (very successfully!) glided through life without regard to typical preparations. Perhaps you are one of those. If so, then kudos. Everyone else, which encompasses the remaining 99.9% of the population, rely on preparation. "Elites are a reach for everyone" and "many elites reject applicants with perfect scores" are not meant to discourage students from applying. Instead, they are signposts that wise applicants use to prepare themselves, their college list, and each college application.</p>
<p>Your record has both pluses and minuses. Your applications should highlight the pluses, and show how your strengths would benefit the college community you wish to join. It's not enough to say "I was in some clubs and did some volunteer work. And oh yeah I'm taking a bunch of APs senior year but grades and scores for those won't be available until after you decide whether to admit me." You might start out by thinking of how you'd present yourself if your ACT was 30 instead of 35. A score of 35 on the ACT is excellent, but that alone won't get you into your reaches IMHO. A compelling application PLUS and ACT of 35, well now you're talking!</p>
<p>Good luck in this endeavor.</p>
<p>Hmmmm...was that the extent of your conversation with the GC? That's a pity. You need clearer guidance because BS has a special set of applicaiton circumstances--namely that they have an abundance of truly gifted applicants. Clearly Dartmouth and Binghamton are not same-tier schools. </p>
<p>Safeties:</p>
<p>UMich seems like a great match for you--a good place to start with rolling admission. If you get that rolling admission--you can skip your safety applications. Agreed? Can you get that applicaiton done by Sept 15th? </p>
<p>If you turn in a great app on Sept 15th, I think you could make UMich your safety--as long as you can afford it if you get in.</p>
<p>Matches:</p>
<p>Do you need funding?</p>
<p>If you need funding, Vanderbilt might be the place to get good merit money. Are there any other merit money schools that intrigue you? WUSTL? USC? UMiami? BU? It might be worth adding one or two of those IF you need major funding--esp as you want to go to med school.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is NOT a match school. It has to go in your Reach Pile. Is there another GC you could talk to at BS? You need to know which reach is your best shot--which one needs more BS Indian males who are interested in science and medicine.</p>
<p>Williams, from BS, is also not a match school IMO. How many BS students are applying to Williams? If it is more than 5, then then Williams becomes a reach school.</p>
<p>Matches with Money--where a Bronx Science grad will be an asset:</p>
<p>Vanderbilt
BU</p>
<p>Now--I would advise you to think strategically about your reaches.</p>
<p>Reaches</p>
<p>Princeton (no harm in tossing in an application--but don't get your hopes up)
Columbia (do they give preference to NY kids?)</p>
<p>Dartmouth
Williams</p>
<p>What about Georgetown? You've overcome huge adversity and family illnesses. Your story may fit in well with their mission of social justice. </p>
<p>That's still nine schools--too many apps if you ask me. Three reaches is probably enough. If you don't need merit money then maybe one match is enough--withthe UMich in hand.</p>
<p>I am guessing about 8 people will apply to Williams.
I think I could get the UMich app done by the 15th but I need money.</p>
<p>Some of the big state universities are not too generous with money for OOS students, and Michigan is expensive. However, rolling admissions (unlike ED) does not require you to attend if accepted. I don't know if I'd call Michigan a safety...seems more like a match to me. They get a huge number of NYC elite school apps every year, with poor yield, and are getting pickier about who they're accepting. Also, you should calculate your MICHIGAN GPA...(how to do this is discussed on the UMich board.) Michigan doesn't care about your 35 ACT if your Michigan-calculated GPA is low. There were some big surprise deferrals and rejections this past admission cycle.</p>
<p>Another school you might consider, esp. if you need finaid, is the University of Pittsburgh. You will almost certainly get a full-tuition scholarship there, and it's an excellent place to do premed. Pitt's hospital was just ranked in the top 20 in the country, and deservedly so.</p>
<p>If you can afford the fees (or get them waived) and have the time and energy to do 10-15 apps, my feeling is, why not? S sent 11. It's nice to have a choice in April. Just make sure that every school is a place you'd be happy to attend, and you can't lose.</p>
<p>So its advisable to do about 10 to 15 apps?</p>
<p>Then The list would probably be</p>
<p>University of Michigan
Princeton University
Stanford University
Williams College
Dartmouth College
Columbia University
CUNY Hunter
SUNY Binghamton
University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
University of Virginia
Boston University
Cornell University</p>
<p>Keep it down to 8--and throw in an addl three if you have the energy. It's time consuming to do apps.</p>
<p>Money changes everything kiddo. It's fine to keep Princeton and Dartmouth on your list but really, with med school in your future, you need to get as much money as possible. Prestige with money would be great--but realistically, other schools will give you more money.</p>
<p>Start by reading the thread titled: Schools Known for good Merit Aid. Merit aid is not loan based.</p>
<p>You only have one merit school on your list--what happened to Vanderbilt?</p>
<p>What about:</p>
<p>Vanderbilt
BU
University of Pittsburgh
Johns Hopkins
Emory
Rice
Grinnell
Case Western (sizeable Indian population)</p>
<p>Research at the pre-med programs at those schools.</p>
<p>You are getting great advice from Helimom--but you might also PM curmudgeon. His daugther is going to med school. She got into Yale but they gave her next to no money--and she took a full ride at Rhodes and has loved it. carolyn would also be a great resource for you.</p>
<p>Maybe UPittsburgh could be your safety?</p>
<p>cheers - Columbia does not give preference to NY kids, if anything it's harder to get in from NY/NJ because so much of their applicant pool comes from there.</p>
<p>My family inceom is undert 25,000 so If I did get into Princeton?dartmouth it would be a full ride anyways.</p>
<p>Well, I am not the expert on Fin Aid but I believe that when they say 'full ride' at Princeton and Dartmouth--they mean they will lend you a large part of the fees in the form of interest bearing loans. This is why Evilrobot did not go to Yale. He got a 'full ride'--but much of it was in the form of debt. The money from Vanderbilt was a straight gift. He could go to Yale for $80K of debt--or he could go to Vanderbilt for free. He chose Vanderbilt because the merit award was a straight cash gift.</p>
<p>I believe curmudgeon's daughter had a similar story. Accepted at Yale but a true free ride at Rhodes.</p>
<p>Other kids have taken on the debt--engineers, business majors--not many who want to go on to medical school. For kids considering medical school, the amount of debt for undergrad becomes a significant issue as medical school itself is very very expensive and it is usually financed by massive loans.</p>
<p>You have a ton of research to do, college--on the typical 'full ride' packages awarded at Princeton and Dartmouth--and on merit packages available from non-Ivy schools.</p>
<p>With an income of less than $25K, you must also consider how you will get back and forth to uni, how you will buy books. The incidental expenses could be a challenge for your family. </p>
<p>Fortunately, you've done a great job in high school. You have a wonderful record in a tough school. You have terrific test scores. Those things should translate into a wonderful college opportunity for you.</p>
<p>Pm sybbie about fin aid at Dartmouth. I believe she has a better understanding than I about the typcial awards at Dartmouth..</p>
<p>Collegehopeful -- the school report is a document that the guidance office puts together that describes the student population at your school, the average GPA and SAT, AP courses available, etc. It's included with the GC report and materials your school will send to colleges to which you apply. </p>
<p>Our school doesn't rank, but will disclose on the school report that XX% of kids in the program have a unweighted GPA of 3.51 or higher, 3.01-3.5, etc. They do the same thing for weighted.</p>
<p>Our school report also includes how many kids took each AP exam, how many earned each possible score, and then how many kids took each SAT-II and the average score. For specialized programs, the school report would also go into the selection process and hopefully disclose that kids who attend these programs are leaving their home schools, and for some, commuting quite a distance, for this challenging opportunity.</p>
<p>TooRichForAid,
We were able to get copies of the school reports from the GC without any problems. (I have the past four years' worth!) The report has been a really useful tool in looking at DS's scores and seeing where his scores would make him competitive.</p>
<p>Collegehopeful, I will keep the advice to a very simple link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.questbridge.org/students/%5B/url%5D">http://www.questbridge.org/students/</a></p>
<p>Study the website, the program, and start your application ASAP -the deadlines are well before the ED/EA dates. The program is not for everyone, but I think it would pay great dividends to you and your family. Reading about how the program works might alleviate concerns about having an income of $25,000. In your case, you may NOT have to focus on merit aid at all. Actually, your focus should be on OUTSIDE help versus direct merit aid. Full rides do exist but they usually have a minimum contribution by the STUDENT (even if parents are exempted) and the only way to reduce that to zero is via outside scholarships such as Gates Millennium, Coca Cola, Toyota, or small local ones. </p>
<p>One bonus is that you may be able to keep many of your favorite schools in the "running" as there is only one application that counts against the maximum number of applications allowed at your school. Take a look at the partner schools:</p>
<p>However, the most important bonus is that it forces you to start EARLY and BE DONE early, thus freeing time for lots of applications to scholarships. Remember that the most lucrative scholarships require EXTENSIVE applications. Do not expect much for the simple applications based on a computer application. </p>
<p>Oh well, I went well past the simple link. But that's me! :)</p>
<p>Post 55 is incorrect, at least as it relates to Princeton. This is a very generous institution. Straight gift. Very modest (proportionally <em>tiny</em>) expected family contribution. On an individual, year-by-year basis, if even the parental contribution cannot be met because of extreme hardship, <em>then</em> a student may take out a deferred-interest loan to cover that small portion.</p>
<p>I hate to post many links to the QB pages, but the site DOES provide a good glimpse at the inner workings of full rides at many schools.</p>
<p>Pay close attention to the lines:</p>
<p>Expected Work/Study Contribution: Up to $2,630<br>
Expected Summer Work Contribution: Up to $1,435</p>
<p>This is also considered one of the MOST generous packages. Student contributions typically fall in the $3,500 to $6,000 range, IN ADDITION to their family's federal EFC.</p>
<p>I think that loans to replace the students' contributions are always available.</p>