I have followed the thread, and IMO the “tangent” started not with my comment, but with you again second guessing the OP’s decision making process. Specifically, this time you challenged the statement that it would be “amazing” for the OP’s daughter to get into Bowdoin, then added:
Nothing wrong with gently reminding parents and students to carefully consider the financial issues. But you and others have repeatedly steered the discussion in this direction throughout the thread, even though the thread was started after the application process by an OP who was very aware of the financial issues, and who specifically requested the conversation focus on admissions questions relating to her already chosen list. Some snippets from your previous posts in this thread . . .
“can you afford Tufts? They offer no merit aid. Total cost is $84,600 per year. Is it really worth that?”
“I can’t see what you are buying other than a bumper sticker based on the career path your daughter wants to follow. It just makes zero financial sense. It’s why our son didn’t apply.”
" letting her apply to Tufts, you’ve placed both of you in a very awkward position. The very best thing that can happen is that she gets rejected."
“paying $200k more for Tufts won’t offer any material advantage for what she wants to do.”
“With the possible exception of quantitative analytics at MIT, I don’t think ANY undergraduate degree is worth what full pay at Tufts costs.”
“What do you hope the extra money will buy her?”
We all have issues we feel particularly passionate about, but for many parents and students the college application process is much more than just an exercise in maximizing ROI, and while they all are terrific schools there are reasons one might strongly prefer Tufts or Bowdoin to Trinity other than “selectivity.”
IMO it might be more productive if after flagging the ROI issue we let parents and students make the decisions themselves, rather than repeatedly telling them what to do. And certainly it isn’t productive to make assumptions or cast aspersions or about the reasons families might prefer one college over another. Just my two cents.
@Ok_tx, congratulations to your daughter on her terrific acceptances and waitlists. It is a brutal process, and she has reason to be proud of herself no matter how the Bowdoin waitlist turns out. Good Luck.
…but Harvard has more grad students than the LACs, so to be fair you need to divide the total endowment by the total number of students. (if someone already mentioned this, then never mind)
Even using total number of students (undergrad + grad), Harvard is top at $2.75m per student. BTW Tufts has an equal number of undergrad & grad students, so halve that too.
PS. I have a huge typo in the Harvard number. It should be $7m.
I’m highlighting this quote as it could be applied to many threads on CC.
I’m not calling out anyone in this thread at all. I do think we (myself included) sometimes let our personal enthusiasm for a particular topic overshadow what an OP is asking for. Thank you for the reminder.
What is one to do when the OP themselves says that they don’t think any school on the list is worth $80k (the price of Bowdoin with transportation) except “maybe” one they’ve already been rejected from? Or, that they have a maximum amount they want to pay and the school in question exceeds that number…by a lot, $120K in this case? This isn’t a situation where the OP clearly said budget is not a concern. I understand that they want to do what is right for her child, but they are conflicted. No one is giving tone deaf suggestions in a vacuum.
I meant it when I said I wasn’t calling out anyone in this thread. I was not directing my comment toward you and have no interest in participating in the back and forth about finances. I removed the verbiage “ROI” to make a broader statement.
That being said, the OP made some contradictory statements about finances, and the overall message I got was that any school was affordable without financial hardship but may require what the OP considered acceptable financial adjustments. (e.g. short term loan to cashflow until year-end bonus). But I may have misunderstood. If this becomes more than a hypothetical conversation, I hope the OP will let us know.
This happens fairly frequently. On a very recent thread I got called out for similar financial advice when the OP literally said they’d never be able to retire if they sent their child to the more expensive school. Was it hyperbole? Who knows? Those were their words.
The cheap choice certainly isn’t de facto the best choice. These decisions revolve around lots of nuanced factors. It is far too easy though to justify higher expenses without really understanding the long term ramifications, either on the leveraged family or the leveraged student. I have a patient who just made his last student loan payment…at age 62. I have another who is a veterinarian, making good money, who outright told me had someone walked him through what the debt service would have looked like, he would have been an electrician.
Hopefully posters come out here looking for honest feedback and not just affirmation and those chiming in will read the whole thread so that they understand the subtleties.
Yes, after that post it was specifically mentioned that Tufts and Middlebury might be worth $80k. Bowdoin was not on that short list. Who knows? Maybe it is now.
Thank you for remembering and asking! Unfortunately, my work intervened, meaning we couldn’t go. But at this point, I think my daughter has narrowed it down to Trinity or getting off the WL at Bowdoin. TCU is about $10K/yr more for a program that’s excellent, but not so much better as to justify the cost given that it’s still in TX. Trinity at $15K annually, with the track and choir programs at her level, is a better option if the NE education isn’t happening.
She withdrew from most of her accepted schools at this point.
Thank you for the update on your D @OK_tx. I also want to thank you for being a trooper through this whole thread. There have been posters (and I’m not excluding myself) who may questioned you, your daughter, the motivations, the rationality, etc, etc, etc, and you have borne it all with grace. (Note, I think the questions/comments were intended to be helpful and not hurtful, even if they didn’t always feel that way.) You have remained engaged in the conversation, have been thoughtful in your responses, and we so appreciate the updates as we love to know how things turn out. Best of luck to you and your D!
Wow, you guys… I’m a lawyer and even I don’t dissect prior witness statements to this level . But if we’re going to, then my $80K comments were directed to estimated annual cost of attendance as published by each school. And Bowdoin’s (at the time I looked) was $71K. That’s the only reason it wasn’t mentioned in the quote above. Not because I think it’s not worth its price tag.
Could have never imagined the debate my bumbling attempts to understand 2022 US college admissions would bring!
First, off, thank you everyone for the spirited debate. And I’m sorry if I confused ya’ll . Wasn’t trying to. But I also didn’t try very hard to say I don’t need financial advice. I’ll attempt that now.
Put simply, (and trying to stay as anonymous as possible) I net enough each year to cash flow my daughter’s $80K tuition/costs every year if it were to come to that (we’re not talking 2-3 times). But I don’t see the reason to cash flow if I have zero to 2% short-term loans available to me, to be paid in 12 months. (Also, I have a law degree and an MBA, I’m not saying this because I’m a naïve optimist).
I just think a $25K/ per SEMESTER paid via cash flow, with the remainder financed below inflation levels, (or even at 0% with bonus credit card miles) is the better way to go.
Thank you so much for saying this! It means a lot. I’ve learned so much here, and I’m grateful to every person who commented. The ‘tough love’ may have rubbed on my insecurities at times, but it was a necessary, incredibly helpful, and appreciated type of education in college admissions.
For what it is worth, I think you were clear and forthcoming from the get-go. There is no reason why any poster should have to submit to continuous cross-examination or an IRS audit in order to have their questions answered.
Fair. But….there are tons of students who post here thinking their parents can afford anything (based on vague/hopeful statements by the parents) and it turns out not to be true.
This OP is a parent who knows her own finances well. But many posters here have seen students who are optimistically naive about what their family can actually afford, and I think that some of that tends to carry over even when it shouldn’t.
I was not directing my comment toward you and have no interest in participating in the back and forth about finances. I removed the verbiage “ROI” to make a broader statement.
. But if we’re going to, then my $80K comments were directed to estimated annual cost of attendance as published by each school. And Bowdoin’s (at the time I looked) was $71K. That’s the only reason it wasn’t mentioned in the quote above. Not because I think it’s not worth its price tag.
. Wasn’t trying to. But I also didn’t try very hard to say I don’t need financial advice. I’ll attempt that now.