Chances on the Waitlist?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington University in St. Louis
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<p>A critical piece of all of this waitlisting is that the Class of 2010 was significantly overenrolled. More students accepted Wash U's acceptance than anticipated. It caused problems in many areas: housing, classes offered, class sizes, etc... </p>

<p>Regardless of whether Wash U. would like to be given a high rating by US News & World Report, or others, they must carefully manage the following classes to regain equilibrium - and their preferred size of school. They do not want to risk admitting too many students again, particularly not while the Class of 2010 is still on campus - and that's another two years. Facilities and personnel are intended to serve a certain number of students. So, it makes sense to me that the school would admit fewer students and put more on a wait list.</p>

<p>However, being on a waitlist is absolutely terrible. I do see that. You must wait to make plans, you are not able to get closure, it leaves an open wound. My sympathies to all who are going through this.</p>

<p>If Wash U. wasn't one of my first choices, I'd think to myself "good riddance! I will find the best school for ME."</p>

<p>If I was in the situation of being waitlisted and Wash U. was my first choice, I would contact my admissions counselor and tell them so. I would ask them what they thought my chances were, how many kids they took from the wait list last year. Then... I'd act accordingly. If the chances aren't good - think of it as a rejection and move on emotionally.</p>

<p>I wonder what the admissions counselor would say? I wonder if s/he would give different answers to different kids?</p>

<p>I'd be interested if anyone contacts a counselor, to hear what their response is/was.</p>

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<p>What exactly does accepting a spot on the wait list entail? I mean, if it's like one of my top 5 choices, but i do not know if i got into other schools yet, should I accept a spot on the wait list and then try and contact admissions and everything and then if i get accepted somewhere else just withdraw my name. Is that alright>?</p>

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<p>I think if you click on the highlighted words in waitlist letter, they'll take you to waitlist page and it explains you what it means and what you should do.</p>

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<p>Sheed30 - Accepting a spot on the WL means just that. As spots open, WashU will contact people who have accepted a spot. The person is then given a set period of time (usually 1 - 2 weeks) to either accept the spot or reject it. At no time are you under any obligation and you can always remove your name from the WL. If you want to attend WashU and accept a spot on the WL - be proactive - contact your admissions rep - update them on any additional achievements you may have and write them indicating that you will attend if offered a spot. As NUgraduate mentioned above. Due to the over enrolment situation 2 years ago - WashU has made it a policy to reduce the number of initial admits and use the WL more extensively to fill out the class. Good luck</p>

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<p>@grad08
I read in a college book that WashU like to accept those who are just short of Ivy League material. People of Ivy League material attend an Ivy League school over WashU</p>

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<p>hopeworks, the problem with that argument is that someone knew what an Ivy League material really is. Ivy League schools normally reject many many high stat students so it is really hard to say who is truly Ivy League material and who is not.</p>

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<p>ST2 thanks...i accepted a spot ! :D</p>

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<p>Now that decisions have been sent, a number of students are trying to assess their chances of being admitted from the wait list. A thread has already been started trying to count how many CC students are on the wait list. It is up to 54.</p>

<p>Nobody really knows the size of the wait list, although everybody knows it is big. If you call the admissions office to ask about it, you are politely forwarded to an admissions officer. They carefully tell you that they don’t know the size of the wait list because it doesn’t start until applicants return their cards saying they want to accept a spot on the wait list. If you ask how big it’s been in the past they tell you every year is different and they don’t know exactly the size last year. The only information provided is that getting in off the wait list is a “long shot.”</p>

<p>Last fall I did a study to try to determine the size of the wait list at Wash U. Since the school won’t provide any useful information on this topic, and they don’t release their common data set which includes wait list statistics, I tried a different approach. I looked at the admission results for 50 of the top 1000 high schools listed by Newsweek, using data supplied on the Naviance system. This represents over 2,200 applicants.</p>

<p>Based on this sample, almost 55% of the applicants were placed on the wait list! No other college or university in America wait lists as many students.</p>

<p>To put this in context, most schools put between 0 – 25% of all applicants on the wait list. The elite schools are at the low end of that range (Cornell 10%, Dartmouth 8%, MIT 3%, Princeton 7% and Yale 3%.)</p>

<p>Using the most recently available data on the total applicant pool of 22,200 (Class of 2010), this would mean 12,200 students were offered a spot on the wait list. (If Wash U experienced growth in their applicant pool like every other major university over the past 2 years the size of the list would be even larger.) </p>

<p>Assuming this figure is correct, if everyone who was accepted to Wash U declined their offer of admission, and the entire freshman class of 1,350 was taken from the wait list, you still would only have a 1 in 9 chance of being admitted. </p>

<p>Of course this isn’t going to happen. As mentioned in other posts, two years ago the school overenrolled and no one was taken off of the wait list. Last year they did go to the wait list and roughly 100 students were admitted. Nonetheless, based on recent history, you have between a zero and 1% chance of getting in off the wait list. That certainly is a “long shot.”</p>

<p>Even if this analysis is flawed, Wash U wait lists at least as many students as they accept, and probably they wait list more than double the number of students that they accept. This would put the low end of the range at 4,500 – 9,000.</p>

<p>So, if you want to get in off the wait list at Wash U, write a letter showing what you can add to the school, let them know about new awards that you’ve won, and call your interviewer to reiterate how Wash U is really your first choice. Then send your deposit to a school where you were accepted and plan on going there.</p>

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<p>Even if your "research results" are correct, and WUSTL waitlisted 55% of applicants from the top 50 HSs, it by no means can be inferred that they waitlist 55% of all their applicants. (Just like the acceptance rate from those schools can't be assumed to be the actual acceptance rate.)</p>

<p>Getting in off the waitlist is a long shot at every school, and should never be counted on.</p>

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<p>ACT4: Bravo for your research; I couldn't have said it better myself....Someone on another thread exclaimed how 12,000 was an unrealistic # for the waitlist...Hmmmmmmm, not so......</p>

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<p>Updated info for ACT4 research: In our upper middle class suburban NJ high school, 1 URM acceptance, 25 waitlists, 2 rejections.....Waitlist included valedictorian and very qualified others with lots of "demonstrated interest"....</p>

<p>Message received #1: apply ED or don't bother applying at all.....(then again, many just probably hit "submit" on common app...)</p>

<p>Message received #2: If Wash U visits every other competitive school in your area except for yours, get the message.....</p>

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<p>OK, a scenario and some questions, because I think I'm missing what everyone is trying to achieve here.</p>

<p>Here's the scenario:
----All schools including Wash U have emailed all students and sent their acceptances and waitlists and rejections (we wish)
----All schools including Wash U announce that all students who were offered a spot on the waitlist have been superfast and have already responded and declined or accepted their place on the waitlist
----All schools including Wash U volunteer their data on the number of students on the waitlist this year and for the past 4 years
----The 5 years worth of data confirms that Wash U is waitlisting a significantly higher percentage of applicants than other schools. </p>

<p>For the sake of moving the discussion forward and honestly trying to understand what people are trying to achieve, I'll stipulate that the 5 years worth of data showed that Wash U was waitlisting 55% of applicants and I'll also stipulate that the 5 years of data shows that other schools unanimously only waitlist the aforementioned 0-25%.</p>

<p>Here are the questions:
1) If all this was true, are you saying that Wash U would in the scenario above be inflicting some sort of harm on people by waitlisting a higher percentage of students? If yes, can you describe the harm, because I'm missing what it is. I'm not being difficult or antagonistic, or anything like that, I'm being straightforward and telling you that I don't understand the harm, and I need someone to make me understand.
2) Are you saying that if students knew that the percentage waitlisted at Wash U was higher than at other schools they would be less likely to apply, or less likely to accept their waitlist spot? Because I don't think that is the case. Thousands of kids apply to HYPS every year, fully understanding that 9_% of students will be rejected but saying to themselves "but I might be the one who gets in." Same for kids who choose to accept a waitlist spot. It's kind of like cancer--if it happens to you the chances of it happening to you were 100%. Yes I know that's not true statistically, but I'm sure everyone understands the sentiment I'm trying to get across.
3) Say there honestly is some sort of harm going on here that I'm not getting. Would you push for some sort of regulation of what percent of students were allowed to be waitlisted, or push for publicity about waitlist size so that people could make more informed decisions, or what? If yes, then what would you expect the outcome of the increased regulation or increased information to be?</p>

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<p>Psychologically speaking, colleges must disappoint thousands of students. Some take the rip-the-bandaid-right-off approach (I'm thinking of Stanford), feeling it's fairest to send a huge batch of denials so the students know where they stand and can move on with planning their futures. Fabulous kids are rejected, their dream at this school at an end. Hard feelings ensue. </p>

<p>Other schools may feel it is kinder to recognize those students who are fully qualified to be accepted, but due to reasons beyond the student's control (too many other tuba players with better letters of rec, gpa, whatever?) that year, they don't have space for that particular student. In this case, the school "softens" the rejection with a Waitlist offer. Fabulous kids are put on hold, horrified to think they must now jump through more hoops, show more love, prove more worthy--and for what? The chances for admission from WL are so slim. Hard feelings ensue.</p>

<p>While both scenarios are pretty devastating to an applicant for whom the school was their clear #1 choice, arguments could be made for both. On the one hand, the bitter news of a clear rejection allows a student to turn away from (and against?) that school, allowing her to bond with another choice. And with WashU's apparent policy, the WL shows a little honor to the worthy student and gives a tiny chance that a proactive, energized student may be able to persevere (About 100 students won against the odds last year) weighed against the who-knows-how-many more who will strive to gain acceptance off the waitlist, prolonging their struggle, only to be denied in the end.</p>

<p>Rejection, whether instant or prolonged with some extra hope, hurts. My heart goes out to all the hard-working wonderful students who face too few open spots--but I see a wonderful world ahead where these motivated and active people will achieve great success no matter which university they attended for undergrad.</p>

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<p>"push for publicity about waitlist size so that people could make more informed decisions".....Yea, I think if Wash U was more forthcoming about this and other admissions data, people could make more informed decisions...this was certainly not my d's first choice, but we would have liked to have known what was to follow in regards to our own particular situation; at least we would have saved the airfare to St. Louis..</p>

<p>The outcome of the increased information is so that people like janetlover and others like him/her would not be spending endless hours trying to figure out what they did wrong....they did nothing wrong.....</p>

<p>In addition, if you know that 12,000 or so are being waitlisted for the possibility of 100 or even, 200 spots, that is going to be very different than being waitlisted as one of 1000, 500 or whatever at another selective school; In Wash U's case, you know that you are moving on (and not looking back).....If you have the information......But this is a moot discussion; the information does not exist....</p>

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<p>edit: cross posted with madbean</p>

<p>madbean: very eloquent, I might add.....another reason why information would be preferred for those who SHOULD move on, but can't because of that little glimmer of hope....</p>

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<p>Forgive the long post, but it covers 3-4 issues that I see coming up repeatedly. Plus, it’s my first post, and I’ve got a lot to say built up!:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Most schools have to have a waiting list or they can’t control how many students they will have in an upcoming class. As several previous posts have mentioned, more people than expected accepted an offer of admission two years ago and it made for difficulties in terms of housing, class size, course availability, etc. Last year, they accepted fewer and added more to the waiting list to achieve their target class size. </p></li>
<li><p>Although many people have provided anecdotal evidence that the students with the highest SATs, GPAs, etc. are being waitlisted while those with lower scores are admitted, I can tell you from anecdotal evidence at my daughter’s school (public) and four others in the area for the past several years that those with the highest scores and/or talent were accepted while those slightly below were waitlisted. Highly qualified people are waitlisted and rejected at all the top schools. What people fail to remember is that every school, Wash U included, isn’t JUST looking for the valedictorians with the highest SAT scores. They want to fill their school with people of integrity, drive, personality and character. They also need to have enough musicians, artists, yearbook editors, performers, goalies, photographers, film board members, class presidents, volunteers, etc. to help the school function. While it is easy to assume that all decisions are based on just SAT scores and GPA and that the reason a person with higher scores was not admitted is because they were “overqualified,” that theory overlooks the fact that other facets of a person’s application factored into the final decision. </p></li>
<li><p>I would be hesitant to trust all data from Naviance or to generalize to the larger population from it. If it is the same system my D’s school uses, and I believe it is, it is based on self-reported data. Some kids post complete info and some don’t. I know of many students who only entered data on what they were most excited about--their acceptances and wait list options. Therefore, those figures may be skewed. At her school, we know that despite what Naviance says, 33 applied, 3 were accepted and 2 were offered spots on the waiting list. </p></li>
<li><p>Finally, as has been posted before, no one is required to accept a spot on the waiting list. If it is easier for you to wrap things up quickly and fall in love with another school, by all means do that. If it is better for you to hold out a small glimmer of hope that you might be accepted off the waiting list, then do that. From personal experience, my D was accepted at a number of schools and offered a waiting list spot on 3 others. She accepted an offer of admission from her favorite school of those that admitted her and accepted a spot on Wash U’s waiting list. She declined a spot on the waiting list at schools she did not like better than the one she planned to attend. While she would love to have been accepted outright at WU, she considered a spot on the waiting list to be much better than being rejected. Even so, being on the waiting list did make for a more unpleasant Spring than if she had been accepted outright. Other kids were wearing their new college t-shirts, joining Facebook groups, starting to look at dorm options, etc. It was very stressful to her to be waitlisted at a school she liked so much. She knew her chances were slim to get off the waitlist, so she wrote Wash U a letter expressing her interest, spoke with an admissions officer once and sat back and waited. She realized it was in her best interest to invest herself in the school in which she would most likely be going which she did. Much to her surprise, in May, she did get an offer of admission off of Wash U’s waiting list which she gladly accepted. While it was a difficult two months not knowing for sure what would happen, she is thrilled to have made the choice she did to wait it out. Once there, she has found Wash U to be nothing short of incredible as have we as her parents. The school is organized, beautiful, well funded, fun, incredibly well staffed and totally focused on making it the best experience possible for the students and their parents. She loves her dorm, her teachers, her friends, her social life and the huge array of courses offered and found it well worth the unpleasant experience of being on the waiting list.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>^^great first post, ccpost. I love to hear about happy endings and I do believe they come along.</p>

<p>While for some the WL is a second chance that works out in the end, for other high-achieving, application-exhausted kids and families, it may be hard to face an extension of the already drawn-out unknown future. You are right when you say no one is forced to accept a spot on the waitlist--but I think it may be the disappointment and lack of closure that comes with a new and pressing decision to be made that adds to frustrations.</p>

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<p>As spots open, WashU will contact people who have accepted a spot. The person is then given a set period of time (usually 1 - 2 weeks) to either accept the spot or reject it.</p>

<p>ST2 - while that may be the way most waitlists work, it is NOT the way the Wash U waitlist works. I know people who came off the waitlist for this year, and for the class entering in the fall of 2005. In fact the letter specifically says that if there is a spot for you they will call and if you accept the spot they will immediately send you a letter offering admission. As I understand it, they give you 24 hours after they call you to tell them you will accept the spot. The assumption is that they do it this way because it affects their yield. </p>

<p>On another note, someone told me that 4 different versions of the waitlist letter went out. Does anyone know if that's true?</p>

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<p>collegestudent: How would we know if 4 diff versions went out?</p>

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<p>I don't know what made this person think there were 4 versions, but he did. Type the first two paragraphs of your letter and everyone on CC can say if they got the same letter.</p>

<p>Personally, my letter was very optimistic so I can believe there were different versions.</p>