<p>Alright. How much does Harvard look at you grades? Do they weigh them more heavily than test scores, extra-curricular activities, teacher reccomendations, essays, and major awards, and subjective factors (ethnicity, parental education, and family income)? I'm a Pakistani American and my dad's a doctor and mom has a master's but she does not work. Let's say I have perfect SAT/ACT/SAT II scores, 5's on AP Chem, AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP US History, AP World History, AP English Language, and AP Computer Science A, am enrolled in 6 AP classes my senior year and am taking Calculus III and Organic Chemistry from a community college, run cross country, am on the student newspaper staff, do speech and debate, am a lawyer in mock trial, play the piano, volunteer at my local science center, am vice president of a young democrats club and president of the math club, work at a tutoring center as a math tutor, and do some science research with a professor at a local community college, I've won state/regional awards in piano, speech and debate, mock trial, and math, and have attained very good teacher recommendations. A subjective weakness is that I went to a large public school in my freshman year, a small private school my sophomore and junior years when I moved out of state, and will go to a medium-sized public school for my senior year, with the first year being in Indiana and the next three being in Tennessee. My objective weaknesses are grades in my first 3 years in the B+ to A- range in all honors and 2 AP classes putting me in the top 25% of my 300 person class, summer activities limited to taking piano lessons, taking a few online courses, and volunteering at my religious center and my local science center, and that up till the time that I have to submit my application, my only awards/honors are having published an article in a small science journal and the state/regional awards I mentioned in speech and debate, mock trial, piano, and math. Knowing my mediocre grades, let's say I write one essay about being an agnostic Pakistani Democrat in Tennessee and write my other one about how I used laziness as a "drug" that I indulged myself into until I realized what it had done to me and self-studied 6 AP exams in 2.5-3.5 weeks and learned all I could about math, physics, chemistry, and biology in the summer before my junior year. Let's say that before I submit my app, I win a challenging creative math contest in my state and get very high A's in all my senior classes beofre submitting my app and after I submit my app, I send in additional information of being an Intel STS Semi-Finalist in Chemistry, getting a perfect score on the AMC 12, being a USA Physics Olympiad Semi-Finalist, a USA Biology Semi-Finalist, and a USA Chemistry Olympiad qualifier with the top score in my region. Will I be able to redeem myself through explaining my laziness in my essay, winning a major state math contest before submitting my app, and sending in additional info of being a semi-finalist in 5 major national math/science competitions to give full proof that I have altered my lazy ways and can do great stuff if I apply myself? If so, what would be my chances of getting into Harvard next spring?</p>
<p>Your high school grades are a three-year window into your character, talent, work habits, commitment and motivation as a student and a scholar. As such, perfect SAT/ACT/AP/SAT II Subject scores cannot mitigate mediocre grades – unless your teachers and guidance counselor specifically address the issue of your grades in their recommendation letters. See: [Guidance</a> Office: Answers From Harvard’s Dean, Part 3 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/harvarddean-part3/]Guidance”>Guidance Office: Answers From Harvard's Dean, Part 3 - The New York Times)</p>
<p>"Recommendations from secondary school teachers and counselors are extremely important at Harvard and at many other colleges, particularly those with selective admissions processes. Faced with more academically qualified applicants than places in the freshman class, our admission officers review the two required teacher recommendations and the counselor report with great care, often commenting on them in writing on “reader sheets” in each application.</p>
<p>We often project the recommendations themselves onto large screens so that all members of the Admissions Committee can see them during the subcommittee and full committee review processes in February and March.</p>
<p>Recommendations can help us to see well beyond test scores and grades and other credentials and can illuminate such personal qualities as character and leadership as well as intellectual curiosity, creativity, and love of learning. Along with essays, interviews, and other materials in the application, recommendations can offer evidence of an applicant’s potential to make a significant difference to a college community and beyond.</p>
<p>I read your thread in another section about self-studying 6 AP’s but declined to comment…might as well do it here. Sigh. First off, perhaps it would be best if you could gain some practicality in your short-term goals. There is only so much you can do in senior year, and from my own experience, cramming will not work for “major math contests” such as the AMC (which I have been studying for since middle school, but have never made USAMO), and certainly not for beyond-AP level USABO, USAPhO, or USNCO. I commend you for realizing that laziness will not get you into Harvard, but especially for Intel STS, you need to invest TIME into the project- time being, evidently, something that you need to learn to manage before college. I’m not saying that you can’t do it- but it certainly will be tough, and I’m not sure how colleges will look at a “sudden realization” this late in your junior year. Most of the national contests are conducted in the spring and results come out eerily close to Ivy admission decisions release dates, so that’s another logistical factor you have to consider. Is Harvard your first choice? If you choose to partake in math/science competitions your senior year, you can consider doing RD rather than early, rather than risk getting straight up rejected SCEA.</p>
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<p>I disagree that it’s impossible to cram for the USAMO, the other USA**O contests, or for Intel STS. Having never participated in contest math before, I only marginally missed the USAMO cutoff (by three index points) this year after three weeks of cramming AIME material. While Intel projects are more discipline-specific (biology in particular often requires lots of time for experiments), I developed the fundamental idea for my semifinalist project over a weekend. Had I been motivated, the entire thing probably could have been completed in two weeks total.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, from my experience, even though high school classes are deathly repetitive, generally boring, and overall probably make you want to drive a railroad spike through your brain, they are considered very important by college admissions officers. You’re probably screwed.</p>
<p>@Icedcoffee. I only did not make the USAMO this year by 4 points and I had little preparation. So with the slightest preparation, I think I’ll be fine. The other contests, I have plenty of time to prepare for in the summer. Finally, for the Intel, I have secured a position with a prof and chosen a project which I will begin next fall and hope to wrap up within 3-4 months. Please realize, that by being “lazy,” I mean doing nothing for my grades and just going to math and speech contests and usually winning. I agree to have channeled my energy in some wrong channels, but I was not absolutely lazy. Harvard is by no means my first choice but I realize it’s a reach for me and I just want to see how far of a reach it is for me next spring.</p>
<p>@DoctorMagic. It seems like you are being a bit dishonest with your claim of missing USAMO by 4 points. The qualifying index for USAMO this year was 204.5, so your claimed index was 200.5. Out of sheer curiosity, I took a look at the scores of AIME takers in your state, Tennessee, and found only 2 people achieved a score of 9, one in AIME I and one in AIME II. The next highest scores were 7 and 6, so people who scored that were unlikely to get a 200+index. I then took a look at the AMC12A and AMC12B statistics and found only 1 11th grader with a rather Caucasian surname who scored a 114 on the AMC12B. I doubt that person is you. Therefore, I find it highly unlikely that you only need only “slight preparation for USAMO”- perhaps you need to be a little bit more truthful in your posts?</p>
<p><a href=“American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America”>American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America;
<a href=“American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America”>American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America;
<a href=“American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America”>American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America;
<a href=“American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America”>American Mathematics Competitions | Mathematical Association of America;
<p>May be he is a ■■■■■, or full of himself. “Knowing that I have and IQ of 122,” he states that he will cram all these APs like WH, EH, Physics, Math, English in 2 weeks, and he will excel since last year he took all these equally impressive APs and just studied 30 minutes the previous night. In the Princeton forum he asks the exact question but when a poster questions him as it is impossible to achieve the USAMO results he claims, the OP states that they did not go but will do better now since “I have already put in time for them but was not able to compete in them because of the stupidity of my school principal.” Every time he mentions that his mom has a MA, even though she stays at home, and his dad is a doctor. Did I mention that “My parents recently bought a house that costs about a million dollars and my dad pays about 1200/month for his apartment. Our income is 180K approximately.” Let’s also not forget that he is an athlete, received the awards in “piano, speech and debate, mock trial, and math” and whatever.</p>
<p>No dear doctormagic, if you are real, you do not have a chance in any ivy, or top school as you are all over the place, you do not have consistency as your mediocre grades show and you lack intelligence maturity. Your application will have already been evaluated by the time you magically win all these competitions and will not impress the ad com as there will be many finalists from these competitions with both the grades, exceptional ECs and upward trend that shows stability.</p>
<p>Sounds like a good end to this thread. Nice post Ana.</p>
<p>I am no ■■■■■. I took the AMC 12 and AIME unofficially in my school math club. My principal is an old guy who is a bit old fashioned and doesn’t let us do competitions for some reason unknown to me. I studied for them but not was not allowed to take them through my school. I only posted my parental statistics and my income and the recent purchase of my house to see how much aid I could get from such a university. I only mentioned my IQ for others to evaluate whether I had the ability of pull of the marginal studying. On the AP “30 minute studying”, I mean to say that I studied for 30 minutes for each test and got a B in chem and like and A- in calc bc. I have not won these competitions but I study about 12 hours a day when I get home from school for them now. I sleep very little. I am not trying to be pretentious. In fact, I thought people would consider me stupid when I mentioned my IQ. I am just trying to get an idea of my chances at Harvard or Princeton with my mediocre grades in honors classes and 8 AP classes, perfect test scores, potential 5’s on 8 AP’s, decent extra-cirriculars with state/regional awards, good recs, good essays, a very tough senior courseload with all A’s, and my background.</p>
<p>The overall chances at Harvard and Princeton are 5.8% and 7.86% respectively. Given those odds, any ‘A’ student should look upon their chances as similar to winning a lottery ticket. Students with mediocre grades need to be realistic; by all means submit an application, but your chances are probably less.</p>
<p>Thank you gibby. Would I have a good chance of getting into WashU, Vanderbilt, or Johns Hopkins if I got all A’s in 6 AP classes and 2 college classes my first semester of senior year and did as well in those 5 national math/science classes as I hope to do next year and submitted the Intel STS SF in Chemistry by the end of January, the AMC 12 score and the USA Physics Olympiad SF by the end of February, and the USA Chem Olympiad Qualifier and USA Biology Olympiad SF (all with great amounts of work) by the first week of March?</p>
<p>No one can realistically chance you because your teachers will need to write against your so-so grades in their recommendation letters. If they do not give you STELLAR recommendations, all the rest doesn’t matter. Teacher recommendations are critical, especially when a transcript is lacking in sizzle. See:[Writing</a> Recommendations | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/writingrecs]Writing”>How to write good letters of recommendation | MIT Admissions)</p>
<p>Let’s say your chances of admission are 73.2%.</p>
<p>^ Sarcasm really doesn’t help the OP. Just saying. He’s already confused. </p>
<p>OP, I understand that you want to get in to these schools – Here’s the thing. The Ivies are not a shoo-in for anyone, but I cannot say you don’t have a chance. By reading your post, I see you think that B+s and A-s are mediocre – They are admittedly not Ivy material, but in no way should you think that they are mediocre. Apply to Harvard and wherever else, and make sure you apply to schools in your range as well (i.e. Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Tufts --haha, I’m biased there, as you see 
) because they will surely give you a chance. Get amazing teacher recs and give senior year all you have got – You definitely have a slim chance right now with the Intel competitions. Honestly, Harvard may not accept you, but it is uncertainty for EVERYONE who applies, and you have a slim chance (slim means just apply as a dream school). Make sure top keep your match and safety schools in your mind as well – But there is no harm in applying to the schools you want. Just don’t hold too much hope, and try your hardest. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>PLEASE DISREGARD THIS THREAD NOW AND POST ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY IN THE NEW “Chance Me” thread I’m about to create.</p>