Changes by Pres. Hatch

Colleges and Universities A-Z Wake Forest University
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<p>I read in the SAT optional thread about some changes that had been initiated by Pres. Hatch that had been somewhat controversial, namely:</p>

<p>"While Hatch's recent onslaught of major changes to Wake Forest have been presented in succession more closely than they probably should have, I respect him for trying to improve the quality of Wake Forest. Hearn, President Emeritus, did an excellent job building Wake Forest into what it is today. However, we can't expect Hatch to leave Notre Dame, his alma mater, and not implement some of his own ideas within our university. Some argue that he is trying to mold Wake Forest into another Notre Dame with the implementation of "visiting hours" for opposite sex students in dorms and that our new letterhead "logo" looks like a bank's, but these changes will be, or already have been, accepted over time. Overall, the changes he is making will be accepted and I think they potentially will make Wake a more recognizable, higher-ranked national university.</p>

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<p>In summary, I realize that my ideas are rather scattered but I'm tired of hearing everyone complain about Hatch and the changes to Wake Forest. I don't necessarily agree with everything he's doing but I realize that change is enevitable and complaining won't stop him from continuing with his plans. Certain rules, such as removing Greek letters from the dorms, anger me and I think that the administration's reasoning is flawed, but I'm willing to try and remain optimistic about our future and trust the administration, who actually has experience in managing universities, knows what they're doing."</p>

<p>Can folks with first-hand knowledge of Wake Forest and these changes tell me more about these and any other changes that have been instituted by Pres. Hatch, his reasoning for making the changes, and the general on-campus reaction to the changes?</p>

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<p>Considering the fact that I wrote the comments your are referring to... I will respond to your question. Before I continue, however, I suggest you visit Old</a> Gold & Black Online | The student newspaper of Wake Forest University, which is the Wake Forest student newspaper. Take a look around and read the articles, many of which address this subject. It will give you a better idea of what's going on.</p>

<p>While there are changes to the campus, it is important to understand that Wake Forest, overall, is not changing. Similar to other elite universities in the nation, Wake Forest has recently implemented some changes in an effort to improve the campus. Mainly, these are the result of the new president, Nathan Hatch. However, his motives are not out of the ordinary. Whenever a new president, dean, principal, headmaster, etc. assumes responsibility of an institution, it is their job to make changes. Unfortunately, it's difficult being a student during these changes because, natually, it's easier being resistant to change, rather than accepting it with open arms. </p>

<p>Specifically, the biggest and most controversial change was the decision to convert faculty apartments into student apartments in response to the trustees decision to slightly increase enrollment by about 80 students each year. The increased enrollment requires more student dorms and unfortunately, the faculty was adversly affected by this decision. The uproar on campus resulted mainly from the administration's failure to respect the faculty and include them in this decision and from the students negative reaction to the idea of a larger student body. </p>

<p>In addition to the above change, smaller things around campus have seen change as well. For example, all Greek letters are being removed from buildings in an attempt to appear less "Greek dominated" to prospective students. Also, a provisional "poster hut" (a contraption to place flyers, notices, advertisments on) has been placed on campus which is rumored to signal the administrations possible future decision to prohibit posting notices on campus buildings. However, it is quite ugly and is a blemish on the lower quad. </p>

<p>As you can see, these changes do not drastically change the face of Wake Forest, however they have caused some people on campus to become upset. This is mainly the result of the changes all occuring in such a short period of time. First we learned about increased enrollment and the faculty apartment conversion, then the poster hut randomly appeared on the quad, then the notice about greek letters being removed, and now the new optional SAT policy, so it all seems very close together and has been difficult for everyone to quickly accept. </p>

<p>Wake Forest is still an AMAZING school, with a very happy student body, and a great overall community. I have met few people who didn't absolutely love Wake Forest. The school spirit is immense and our alumni always return nostalgic with memories of how great their four years were. Despite some negative response to the changes, Wake Forest isn't going anywhere but up.</p>

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<p>thanks for the insights. It has been surprising to read the strong reactions by many regarding the optional SAT policy. Our D visited WFU and loves it and I would venture to guess it may be her ED school. I bought a book reviewing the top 150 schools in the country and WFU got a pretty negative write up in terms of the amount of drinking and partying ("trips to the Emergency Room are frequent" "Senior tradition of drinking x amount of hard liquor within a 24 hour period" etc. I don't have the book with me (we are traveling) or my quotes would be more accurate. Since you are a student, SouthernWake, I would love your take on this. D does not drink. It wasn't a negative to her, but we were both a bit surprised. The author is a frequent speaker on the Rush Limbaugh show, but I can't recall his name. Sorry! Comments? Life at WFU on weekends?</p>

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<p>I just graduated, but I was also a student who didn't drink. I never had a problem or felt like an outcast. I have also never heard of anyone taking a trip to the emergency room due to alcohol (the most common reason to end up in the emergency room, not that many students ever do, is actually a sports related injury).</p>

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<p>SouthernWake:</p>

<p>Thanks for the information. Most of the changes you mentioned seem fairly minor, but I wonder if the removal of the Greek letters signifies something more, especially since Pres. Hatch came from Notre Dame which has no Greek presence.</p>

<p>Can you or someone else tell me about the "visiting hours" and the reaction to that?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

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<p>I honestly never heard anything about visiting hours. They did room inspections this year, and I can never remember them doing that before, but no one ever mentioned visiting hours that I can remember. I can't imagine that they could ever do anything with visiting hours--not when there are at least a couple co-ed halls for upperclassmen on campus.</p>

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<p>D just finished sophomore year. She was on a co-ed hall for freshman year -- definitely don't see visiting hours happening at WFU. </p>

<p>252525 -- yes, there is alcohol; just as there is at almost every college in the country. Some students drink way too much; again, as some do at almost every school. D is on the all student EMT crew on campus. She has not been on duty for any ER trips. (I know this is not the same as saying they don't happen, but she hasn't said they're a regular event.) As a parent, I'm concerned about drinking and hard partying, but I can't say I'm more concerned simply because she's at WFU. (Does that make sense?) The "tell all" books you describe give pretty skewed info, as I'm sure you realize. D looked beyond that and evaluated WFU based on her academic interests and reaction to the school as a whole.</p>

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<p>Fire Hatch! Send him to any one of the Universities ranked in the bottom 100None of them require SAT/ACT scores.. </p>

<p>Wake Forest will now be known as the only University in the top 200 that does not require SAT or ACT scores. People will always wonder if your decission to go there was based upon the fact that you had low test scores.</p>

<p>Not want I want my resume to reflect!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

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<p>Name one Elite University that has done this. I saw the list and not one is in the top 100 and to my knowledge the top 200. There are a few small liberal, fine art colleges which have done so, but that is like comparing Apples to Oranges!</p>

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<p>Name one other High Ranking University!!!!!!!!! Forget about the small liberal colleges.</p>

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<p>No Greek letters</p>

<p>No proficiency test score requirements</p>

<p>Who gave this guy the right to change the values,the the high standards and the traditions of what was once considered a school of choice for smart conservative, hardworking students. Now it will known as The School for LOW test performers, just like the rest of the bottm 100 Universities. I guess he will also work to recruit the tattoo, goth, facial piercing students who will fullfill his wish for freedom of expression. Just like the University of Berkly of California. God save the South.</p>

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<p>Oh for goodness sake, AA -- enough already! We all get that you aren't happy, but you're not even having a "discussion" w/ anyone here -- just ranting non-stop with yourself!</p>

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<p>And Rant I will! You were not the student, or parent of a student currently enrolled and hoodwinked by the misrepresentation of Wake Forest!</p>

<p>The truth is, what triggered this had alot to do with the retention rate of this years freshman class. Maybe you should have fired your enrollment staff instead of trying to pass the blame on proficiency tests. How redicilous! The 5% of students dropping out, were either to weak at finding a nitch, too weak at starting their own nitch, not strong enough to follow through, too week to handle pressure, or unable to cut the academic courses, because; their SAT scores did not support their GPA's, and your standards were too low. </p>

<p>Common sense asks, how will admitting more students with good GPA scores but low SAT scores solve this problem? It will only make it worse, unless of course; Wake Forest plans to lower their course standards.</p>

<p>Hatch's answer is an easy way out for a weak leader. With more kids than ever fighting to get into high ranking schools, your rentention rate should be better than ever. </p>

<p>His excuse, blame it on proficiency tests and lower the standards, when the real problem is, Wakes standards were not high enough, and your enrollment staff was not savy enough to spot the loosers. </p>

<p>Only a real leader can withstand the pressure of holding up the standards of a top 30 school. Mr. Hatch is a quitter, just like the 5% of students who left. He does not have the strength, the wisdom or the talent to represent the 5,000 students at Wake Forest who really can cut the mustard!</p>

<p>Lets get rid of him before, the damage is irrevocable!!</p>

<p>By the way lets find out what the loss ratio was for freshman classes at Duke, Davidson, Emory, and Vanderbilt University, all schools with higher standards, institutions, and a staff who really can cut the mustard. </p>

<p>Lets be honest, Hatch's real mission is to turn Wake into another just O.K. University. This puts less pressure on him in the long run, guarentees high enrollment and retention - which is always the case when standards are lowered.</p>

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<p>copy + paste</p>

<p>even though Wake Forest is a nice school, no one really thinks it as another Duke or another Vanderbilt and so on. Even though it's a top college, it does not have any specialized program which means it's reputation is solely based on liberal arts and other non-academic factors. I'd love to go to Wake Forest because this is the school what I like but it's just my case. Say that there's a student who wants to be a doctor. Wake Forest is not the best place for him. Duke, Johns Hopkins, Harvard and even Case Western Reserve have better medical/pre-med programs. He would choose those schools instead of Wake if he can choose. Another student wants to major in international relationship, then he would choose Tufts, Harvard, or Georgetown over Wake Forest. What about liberal arts, one thing that Wake Forest should be proud of? Amherst, Williams, Carleton, Bowdoin...tons and tons of small and excellent liberal arts schools would be the first thing you should look at. In my opinion, this is one problem Wake Forest has, as a TOP 30 college, and I think this is what administrations and President Hatch should work on right now. It is a good school for me, a student who does not know what to do, but without a doubt I can say, a student who set a clear goal will do better in college than a student like me.</p>

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<p>Alright! Who kicked the sleeping dog, female @ that? :eek:</p>

<p>Anyone wanna head over to Stratford for a dozen hot ones and an ice cold moo jooce? ;)</p>

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<p>I asked a Chapel Hill student another day, and he said Wake Forest's name is certainly not as big as Duke and Vanderbilt. He also said that UNC might not be a good choice because of its hard workload. He has several friends going to Wake Forest and there they don't work as hard as most students in UNC do. Why does he say that? The thing is UNC doesn't even look at Wake Forest as its rival or anything. As y'all know, the center of the attention is Duke University. right then I felt like. oooh Wake needs a rival. I honestly think President Hatch should see how other top schools do (not cute little LACs like Bates, Hamilton, if he knows Wake Forest is actually a UNIVERSITY, not a LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGE) and continuously check what Wake has achieved compared to theirs. I think Tufts University is a good role model example(it's just my opinion and I'm not an expert in college administration). Tufts is another Top 30 school like Wake, but does have better reputation than Wake Forest, higher avg SAT scores, higher avg cumulative GPA, etc. I don't understand why Wake Forest is trying to be like Holy Cross, Bates...President Hatch should look for a higher goal. What about becoming like Oxford of America huh?</p>

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<p>I agree with AA completly. It seems like Wake is taking a step beck in every way with Hatche's new "improvements." How would a respected university, not liberal arts school (mind you) do away with standardized tests. What other universities have done this? This seems like a complete lowering of standards in the wake of (what seems like) pressure to retain students and appear to be more liberal arts like. Wake's reputation was on an upward trend having already established itself as a unique liberal arts university, but now it is becoming like a no name LAC. Taking letters down is not going to change a schools reputation, but doing away with SAT's will. This is a mistake by Wake's administration.</p>

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<p>Mark my comments as tasteless or what have you, but please do not hesitate to reply.</p>

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<p>Firstly, Alice Ann, your comments are getting slightly ridiculous. I hope you're not a student at Wake Forest because, if you are, I would be embarrased. </p>

<p>Secondly, there is a visitation policy at Wake, but ginnyvere has proven that it's not widely-known and subsequently not enforced...which is a good thing. '07-'08 was the first year for the policy, but it has near-zero affect on studnet life.
WFU</a> | Residence Life & Housing
^^pg. 46 </p>

<p>252525:
If you asked me to list problems with Wake Forest, I would have to say "Ask me again later," because I would literally have to sit down and think about an answer. Furthermore, the issue of drinking would definitely not be on the list. </p>

<p>Drinking at Wake Forest is like any university in America: anyone who wants to drink alcohol will be able to do so, fairly easily. I have visited friends at several other universities and have not felt like Wake Forest had rampent alochol abuse in comparison. Simply put, there is so much school work at Wake that students don't have time to wildly abuse alcohol. Some students choose to go out on weekdays, mainly Wednesday night, but for the most part, drinking is done Friday and Saturday nights. It isn't even unusual to go to the library on a Saturday afternoon and see a lot of students there. </p>

<p>The senior tradition you're referring to is called "Senior Fifth" and is held during the last football tailgate of the season. Traditionally, seniors who choose to participate, attempt to finish a fifth of alcohol before kickoff. While this is not a responsible way to drink alcohol, it isn't forced upon seniors and is purely a personal choice. I'm not 100% positive, but I think that there is a group on-campus that has started to organize an event for seniors that is a sober alternative to senior-fifth. Nevertheless, traditions like these aren't unique to Wake. If your daughter doesn't drink she won't be ostracized, there are plenty of people who don't drink. </p>

<p>Finally, I really dislike college guidebooks. They give a very brief synopsis that usually places way to much emphasis on a particular stereotype. My personal advice is to trust the impressions you get from visiting campus.</p>

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<p>SouthernWake -- per my earlier post on this thread, I agree with what you're saying, based on D's experiences at WFU. I had forgotten the name of the senior tradition, but D did tell me about it. She thinks it's just stupid.</p>