<p>JLuer - actually I would have to - allowing/letting/enabling kids sleep in/go to school late - cuz of homework - even on a semi-regular basis - well........... if parents allow it - then it is their issue - sorry - but I really don't see it any other way. Not saying that the kids are slacking - but that won't fly in college - you do it - or you don't - you attend class - or you don't - it is not on the prof's/schools dime. It is life in a nutshell.</p>
<p>If a kid is sick - that is a diffferent story - excusable by all means - but to me - not for tired kid - not for homework/test reasons - JMHO</p>
<p>Jeep >>>> but that won't fly in college - you do it - or you don't - you attend class - or you don't -<<<</p>
<p>Actually, in college I think profs are more reasonable (maybe because students have more freedom to "speak up".) Also, kids in college are actually in class less hours, so more time to do homework. Also, many college classes don't meet everyday... So all in all, less likely to happen.</p>
<p>However, in high school, kids pretty much have to "shut up" and take it. My son is now in college and he has had plenty of time to do all this work. So, the analogy just doesn't fly with me.</p>
<p>paying3 >>>> JLauer-- I read jeepmom's ^^marks to refer to parents who write fake-o sick notes, and thereby enable kids to dodge the consequences of undone homework. It also teaches kids to manipulate. <<<<</p>
<p>I don't understand why you think kids should even have "consequences of undone homework" when they have been given one night to do too much homework??? I'm not describing situations where the kid has been a slacker.</p>
<p>When a teacher (ab)uses her "right" to assign excessive homework with too short a "turn around", then I (as the parent) will exercise my right to protect my child from unreasonable consequences (an F for unfinished work) or being too tired in class (because he did finish his work but went to bed at 3 am). Frankly, as more parents do this, (and more and more are) teachers will get the message that their class is not the only class and they can't assign excessive homework. </p>
<p>Since my children do not miss many days of school, I will decide when they go and when they won't.</p>
<p>I would not do the above (and my kids know this) if they goofed off and then didn't finish. But, I will not let my kids' GPA take a dive just cuz some teacher won't follow the 30 minute per class homework limit and my child ended up working non-stop on homework until the early hours.</p>
<p>How is this any different from when my husband has to stay up very late to do his job (to meet some last minute deadline), but then goes in to work late the next day???</p>
<p>Any math teacher who assigns "1-120, odd" in a calculus class is lazy in my opinion...too lazy to go through the problems and see which ones REALLY should be done to help the student develop his skills without burdening him with scut work.</p>
<p>A friend is taking third semester calculus at college now and his homework consists of 8 problems covering 2 sections. Of course, in college you may want to actually do more problems than the teacher assigns--to prepare for the test. </p>
<p>I know a lot of people who breathe a sigh of relief when they get to college...</p>
<p>ellem... >>>> Any math teacher who assigns "1-120, odd" in a calculus class is lazy in my opinion...too lazy to go through the problems and see which ones REALLY should be done to help the student develop his skills without burdening him with scut work. <<<</p>
<p>Exactly. All she'd have to do is either briefly look at the problems and then pick some out, or if she still wants to be lazy, assign "every other" odd 1,5, 9, 11, etc or some other system that she designs (1, 7, 13, 19, etc.) Certainly Calculus students can figure out the pattern, right???</p>
<p>30 min homework limit!!! wow - now there is an idea - for high school - that surely didn't fly here.................</p>
<p>There are times that a kid needs to take the responsibility of whatever homework is shelled out - high school or college - or job for that matter - there are deadlines - reasonable or unreasonable - that come along in many aspects of life - and losing a few hours of sleep to get it done happens every day. Guess they need to learn this at some point. Their GPA's are theirs to earn - not the parents - so sometimes it takes some suffering to get it done and in on time and not miss school for it - JMHO.</p>
<p>In college - it is the responsibility of the student - not the prof - to get the work done - no matter how crazy it may be - and there will be times that this will be the case and students will pull all nighters to get it done and in on time - and no mom to write an excuse for them.</p>
<p>I don't think there are too many of 'our' parents who did this for us - mind sure didn't - it was nose to the grindstone and get it done. This competitive world is just getting out of hand for this generation of kids - can't imagine what the next generation will bring.</p>
<p>There were several times throughout the school year that I let my kids go into school later, or leave school early (although not to avoid homework- they still had to hand it in). </p>
<p>And I thought I was teaching them how to take care of themselves. In other words, you don't necessarily have to miss an entire day of work if you are "under the weather" a little. Allergies flare up and you don't get a good night's sleep? Rather than stay at home all day- go for the morning, take the test, go home, take a nap. It's better than missing the whole day. Hard night of homework? Feeling weak and like you might be coming down with something? Go to school, hand in the work, and call me later on if you need to be checked out. OR...sleep in until 4th period, THEN go hand in the homework, and come home after school to some nice chicken soup.</p>
<p>Shoot, my youngest had terrible allergies/sinus problems. During baseball season, I'd let him go to school for the minimum number of classes so he could still be eligible to pitch that night. Am I a bad mom? Have you ever woke up in the morning with sinus headache? Or had problems breathing all night?</p>
<p>I've done exactly what doubleplay describes with my kids. I finally justified it to myself when I realized that working the equivalent hours at McDonald's at their ages would have been illegal, or if they were prisoners they'd have some civil rights. (I'm thinking of those days when they had to be at school at 7:25 a.m. and had evening concerts or sports events and often were home at 9 or 10:00 - the next day can be a killer and as we adults learn how to manage our time by letting the less important things slip, it was sometimes the lesser of two evils to sleep in the next morning and go into school late.)</p>
<p>jeep...>>> 30 min homework limit!!! wow - now there is an idea - for high school - that surely didn't fly here.................<<<</p>
<p>Jeep... please put your glasses on... </p>
<p>That is a "30 min limit PER CLASS". This is a private college prep school. These kids take 8 classes - that is 4 hours of homework per night. So, when a teacher assigns 2 or 3 hours of homework (instead of her 30 minute limit) then the kids end up having 6+ hours of homework in one night - which is a huge problem - especially if the kid had a game/practice/ortho appt or whatever that same day.</p>
<p>doubleplay - >>> Shoot, my youngest had terrible allergies/sinus problems. During baseball season, I'd let him go to school for the minimum number of classes so he could still be eligible to pitch that night. Am I a bad mom? <<<</p>
<p>NO... you are not a bad mom... you are a caring mom. Your examples are the reasons why kids have/need moms. You know your kid better than anyone else (which is why we can't leave it up to some institution to totally call the shots).</p>
<p>lefthand >>> I finally justified it to myself when I realized that working the equivalent hours at McDonald's at their ages would have been illegal, or if they were prisoners they'd have some civil rights. <<<<</p>
<p>Were you reading my mind??? :) Were you hiding in the closet when I told the principal a similar analogy??? :) These kids are working 60+ hours per week - more hours than the teachers have to work!!!</p>
<p>And that 60+ per week doesn't include sports - which schools say participation in at least one EC is pretty much expected, if not almost a mandatory part of high school life. (and I am not an advocate of being "over involved" with EC's. I'm a believer in one EC at a time.)</p>
<hr>
<p>lefthand >>>> we adults learn how to manage our time by letting the less important things slip, it was sometimes the lesser of two evils to sleep in the next morning and go into school late.<<<</p>
<p>Exactly!!!! Adults cancel appts/meetings and/or let less important things slip, yet no one claims that they are being "irresponsible" or "manipulative."</p>
<p>jLAUER, it doesn't sound very fair. If your school has a policy of 30 min per class assigned homework, and one or two teachers exceed that 4x, those teachers not only extract too much from the studentgs (according to school policy) but aren't being team-worthy with the other faculty from other subjects. </p>
<p>At junctures like those, I was always thinking how to get a group of parents together to approach the principal, but then my H said don't do that. Ask S to round up a group of students and go as a group, first to the teacher, and if no satisfadction, then to the principal. If your school has a written policy of 30 min per class, that's where to point to. </p>
<p>As well, have you made sure that this teacher believes it to be manageable within 30 minutes? Does it take other students 2 hours, or closer to 30 minutes. This could tip you off if only your kid is overworking, that perhaps some tutoring or strategy tips to perform same work more efficiently are needed.</p>
<p>H;s point-of-view is always protest as a group, because if there's a violation of a system or policy in the school, it's affecting more than just your kid. </p>
<p>As a teacher, I always wanted to hear the protest first, before my principal did. Sometimes, hey, I just didn't know and was ready to adjust.</p>
<p>Occasionally in elementary school my kids would get an assignment that took way too much time - often too many math problems - I would write a note to the teacher saying I told my kid to go to bed after x number of hours of homework. But I realize that it's easier to do when grades don't count and you probably also know the teachers better. I don't think in those cases it was intentional. At any rate if the teacher is truly assigning too much work - I'd definitely try to get a group of kids together to complain. (And I agree first talk to the teacher.)</p>
<p>Our school (like many others) will never let you voice complaints as a group (it's a control thing). </p>
<p>I agree that when teachers violate policy they are not being part of the "team". But that is the problem, there are teachers that like to think that "their" class is the most important class and therefore worthy of more H/W - at least on occasion.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that the same teacher routinely does this or that it happens everyday. (otherwise my kids would be late everyday.) The problem is that if each teacher only justifies "burdening" the kids (and breaking the rule) just a couple of times a year, it adds up when there are 8 different teachers!! It can mean 20 times in a year that the kid is up until 3 am. So, yes, sometimes I'm gonna let them sleep in and then go in at 10 am (with homework in hand). </p>
<p>The problem is that there is no "in real time" solution - kids can't raise their hands and say, "Mrs. Jones, are you aware that that assignment will take at least 4 hours to do???" (as matter of fact, one teacher (a big offender) routinely says "you can knock this out in 20 minutes" when she gives assignments.) </p>
<p>I have told the teachers (especially Mrs. "knock it out in 20 minutes"). She (who never admits error), told me, "Mrs. Lauer, your kids do the assignments too well" So, when I asked her what don't need to be doing to still get a good grade, she had no answer. I told her that my kids are not doing "extra work" - they are following the rubric she gives them. I told her that I drive a carpool and that the other kids also spent a similar amt of time on her assignments. She just didn't want to admit that she assigns too much homework sometimes (you should see what she assigns over T-giving break!!! The kids barely have time for turkey!!)</p>
<p>mathmom >>> Occasionally in elementary school my kids would get an assignment that took way too much time - often too many math problems - I would write a note to the teacher saying I told my kid to go to bed after x number of hours of homework. >>></p>
<p>I know that often works in grades 1 - 6, but not usually at middle or high school.</p>
<p>JLAUER - I do have my glasses on - bifocals at least - and I wish my kids had had 30 min per class/teacher per night - On occassion - actually pretty frequently - they had alot more than that - I don't think that is soo completely unreasonable - but a part of high school life in general. - and didn't happen every night - maybe once or twice a week.</p>
<p>I just don't like the ldea of promoting kids to 'sleep in on a school day' - yes - we all have responsibilities in life - and school is the kids responsibility - i tend to think that it is better to go to school on time - and maybe get dismissed early if necessary - unless a health/medical reason is involved.</p>
<p>Do you as a parent go to work late cuz you were up toooo late the evening before - i doubt it - and as a mom - you have a 24/7 job yourself. I guess my feelings tend to be around the idea that if one isn't getting enough sleep - then adjustments have to be made - but not at the cost of their school days - that is the priority.</p>
<p>Jeep... Did your kids take 8 classes per day??? Were they only allowed a minimum of "electives"? All those things make a difference. If your kids only took 6 classes per day (more typical of public schools, and of those 6, 2 were electives or PE,) then your kids didn't have the homework that my kids get. So, if that is your kids' scenario, then more than 30 minutes per class (in non electives) is not such a big deal (since electives often don't assign daily homework.).</p>
<p>My kids take 4 years of math (Geo, AlgII, precal, AP calculus), 5 years of science (bio, chem, AP physics, AP bio, AP Chem), 4 years of English (2 are AP), 4 years of social science (3 are AP), 4 years of religion, plus computers, fine arts, journalism, speech, etc. All are honors or AP classes.</p>
<p>"I guess my feelings tend to be around the idea that if one isn't getting enough sleep - then adjustments have to be made - but not at the cost of their school days - that is the priority." </p>
<p>What adjustments can be made???? We can't create a 27 hour day for them. You're being unreasonable. And why should their "school days" (or hours) have such a "hands off" priority??? My kids both have straight A's -- well over 4.0 GPAs Obviously they can afford to miss some of that "priority" class time.</p>
<p>JLAUER - I am not being unreasonable - it was our reality as well - my kids both had very similar schedules - and requirements in high school - and very very few electives - both honors and AP - plus EC's - clubs - both year round athletes - both also had jobs, etc..... </p>
<p>When things got to too crazy and out of hand - which they did once in a while - something else had to give - maybe phone/computer time - friends - social stuff - or even their jobs - or whatever - but school always came first and foremost. It was the expectation that we had and they were well aware of it. If they were up all nite - maybe we would let them sleep until just before school - not take the bus cuz it came an hour earlier - drive them to school sometimes - whatever - but we did not encourage them to go in late cuz they were up late. It was a rare day that they went in late to school at all - let alone cuz they slept in.</p>
<p>They found ways to study in free time - even if it was only for 20 minutes at a time - or on the bus to a game - or in the car during the car pool - or or or - but they had the same challanges that you seem to have but had to manage it some how.</p>